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49.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 17:30
UHD
49.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 17:30
Sep 17, 2014, 17:30
UHD
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 17:06:
UHD wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 15:05:

Beamer wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 14:35:
Books can be stolen, and I hope your house doesn't burn down.

I think if my house burned down I'd have greater concerns than my book collection.

That was a response to "your account can be hacked." I think that, if my Amazon account was hacked, I'd have greater concerns than the 300 books on my Kindle that I read once and will never read again.

If my house burns down I don't have a place to live.

Surely "hope no one breaks into your house and steals your books" is closer to what you were shooting for (though still far more terrifying that some idiot hacking your Amazon account).
48.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 17:06
48.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 17:06
Sep 17, 2014, 17:06
 
UHD wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 15:05:

Beamer wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 14:35:
Books can be stolen, and I hope your house doesn't burn down.

I think if my house burned down I'd have greater concerns than my book collection.

That was a response to "your account can be hacked." I think that, if my Amazon account was hacked, I'd have greater concerns than the 300 books on my Kindle that I read once and will never read again.
47.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 17:02
47.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 17:02
Sep 17, 2014, 17:02
 
PHJF wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 14:27:

Dead battery. Broken device, either physically (whoops, dropped it and cracked the screen) or via software (whoops, update bricked the machine). Publisher revokes access to eBook for any reason or goes out of business or DRM server dies, whoops you can't read it anymore (yes you can turn off Wi-Fi but that also cuts you off from getting more books). Can't easily lend a book to a friend. Hope you remember your password, or your account isn't hacked.

So I take it you don't have a Steam account?

I do have a Steam account, with 350 or so games on it. I prefer to own the actual media, however, and have a bunch of games on disk still from the 90s and aughts. The reason I don't have more recent ones on disk is b/c of the insanely cheap prices of games on Steam and other platforms. If the price was the same or close, I'd have bought the disk.

Unfortunately, ebooks have not moved in that direction. If Amazon did Steam-style sales on ebooks on occasion, I'd probably impulse buy them by the dozen. I've done that for several Humble Bundles. That's the trade off IMO, you're not getting anything physical that will last, but in exchange you get a cheaper price.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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46.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 15:05
UHD
46.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 15:05
Sep 17, 2014, 15:05
UHD
 
I'm not trying to say eBooks are terrible and they deserve to die, I just don't think they're always the best choice. I have a ton of eBooks. If I could get all my textbooks digitally I totally would; it'd beat carrying them around campus all the time. Then again, if I took that route I couldn't resell them at the end of the semester, and not all textbooks can be rented.

eBooks are a great option; my point is they're not the second coming.

PHJF wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 14:27:
So I take it you don't have a Steam account?

Sure I do. I have a generous library of games on Steam (some of them I've even played). I understand the inherent risk of digital media and choose to accept it. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate having a CD I can install and play whenever I want.

Beamer wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 14:35:
Books can be stolen, and I hope your house doesn't burn down.

I think if my house burned down I'd have greater concerns than my book collection.
45.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 14:35
45.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 14:35
Sep 17, 2014, 14:35
 
UHD wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 13:57:
PHJF wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 13:40:
Oh you mean like the telephone, or the TV set? Maybe like the desktop computer?

No... I mean like the radio. There is no "next gen" phone or TV. Print books are in every possible way inferior to ebooks.

Dead battery. Broken device, either physically (whoops, dropped it and cracked the screen) or via software (whoops, update bricked the machine). Publisher revokes access to eBook for any reason or goes out of business or DRM server dies, whoops you can't read it anymore (yes you can turn off Wi-Fi but that also cuts you off from getting more books). Can't easily lend a book to a friend. Hope you remember your password, or your account isn't hacked.

eBooks have perks but to call it better in every way is asinine.

At the same time, books get damaged, books fall apart, books get lost, I've purchased books with missing pages or repeated pages. Books can be stolen, and I hope your house doesn't burn down.

I can't think of a single time access to an eBook has been revoked without cause. Amazon pulled an item after it became clear they weren't allowed to sell it, but they acknowledged it was a last resort, changed their policies to prevent it from happening again, and refunded all purchases. There can be a slippery slope argument, but that also doesn't prevent me from buying Steam games or getting nearly all my music through Spotify.

DRM servers are also meaningless, because your Kindle doesn't check in with a server for you to read it.

Can't easily lend to a friend is a problem. But, frankly, I know jdreyer loves his libraries, but I've found hairs, mysterious stains, and snot in library books regularly. Given that I often read in bed, and assume others do, too, I'd prefer to avoid that.

So yes, there are downsides, but I find them minimal. I find the upsides much, much better:
1) Your entire library is on you at all times. Traveling? I used to bring pounds of books with me if I was gone over 3 days. Now I bring a tiny device
2) Access is instantaneous. Finish a book and want the next in the series or by the author? You can order it and have it in seconds, whereas in the past you'd have to either drive to a bookstore and hope they have it or order from Amazon and wait for delivery. No need to wait between books now. This works internationally, too - I finished one book in a Chinese hotel room and queued up the next immediately
3) It spreads across devices. I don't always have a bag with me large enough to hold a book or a kindle, but I always have my phone with me. Which means I always have my library with me. If I get stuck somewhere unexpectedly I can just take out my phone and continue reading

These advantages, to me, make up for the disadvantages a hundred times over.
44.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 14:34
44.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 14:34
Sep 17, 2014, 14:34
 
Physical books are also a way of "showing off" by having an impressive bookshelf in your house that other's will assume you have read.

On the other hand if you are having dinner at someone's house and there is an Atlas Shrugged on that bookshelf, you know to just back away slowly and head for the door.

No one can easily judge you based on what's in your eReader. What good is that? :p /s
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43.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 14:27
PHJF
 
43.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 14:27
Sep 17, 2014, 14:27
 PHJF
 
The cost of an ereader spread over the hundreds of ebooks I own (all free of DRM, all backed up, and all bought at low prices) is negligible. The future of media is digital, how do you think books are somehow going to weather the storm? "But I like the smell of it" isn't going to cut it. If anything, books are even worse off than other media because an ebook is generally between 500KB and 5MB.


Dead battery. Broken device, either physically (whoops, dropped it and cracked the screen) or via software (whoops, update bricked the machine). Publisher revokes access to eBook for any reason or goes out of business or DRM server dies, whoops you can't read it anymore (yes you can turn off Wi-Fi but that also cuts you off from getting more books). Can't easily lend a book to a friend. Hope you remember your password, or your account isn't hacked.

So I take it you don't have a Steam account?
Steam + PSN: PHJF
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42.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 14:23
42.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 14:23
Sep 17, 2014, 14:23
 
UHD wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 13:57:

Dead battery. Broken device, either physically (whoops, dropped it and cracked the screen) or via software (whoops, update bricked the machine). Publisher revokes access to eBook for any reason or goes out of business or DRM server dies, whoops you can't read it anymore (yes you can turn off Wi-Fi but that also cuts you off from getting more books). Can't easily lend a book to a friend. Hope you remember your password, or your account isn't hacked.

eBooks have perks but to call it better in every way is asinine.

I store all of my ebooks on my computer as well as my ereader. The lending thing is legit though. I prefer reading physical books in some situations and ebooks in others but ebooks are just way more versatile IMO. To me it's all just text, I don't really care how I consume it so long as its convenient for me at that time.

I do however miss cool covers on books, you don't appreciate them as much with an ereader and its harder to visually associate a book with an author.
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41.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 14:05
41.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 14:05
Sep 17, 2014, 14:05
 
UHD wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 13:57:
PHJF wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 13:40:
Oh you mean like the telephone, or the TV set? Maybe like the desktop computer?

No... I mean like the radio. There is no "next gen" phone or TV. Print books are in every possible way inferior to ebooks.

Dead battery. Broken device, either physically (whoops, dropped it and cracked the screen) or via software (whoops, update bricked the machine). Publisher revokes access to eBook for any reason or goes out of business or DRM server dies, whoops you can't read it anymore (yes you can turn off Wi-Fi but that also cuts you off from getting more books). Can't easily lend a book to a friend. Hope you remember your password, or your account isn't hacked.

eBooks have perks but to call it better in every way is asinine.

Whoa, dude, you pretty much crushed it.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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40.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 13:57
UHD
40.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 13:57
Sep 17, 2014, 13:57
UHD
 
PHJF wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 13:40:
Oh you mean like the telephone, or the TV set? Maybe like the desktop computer?

No... I mean like the radio. There is no "next gen" phone or TV. Print books are in every possible way inferior to ebooks.

Dead battery. Broken device, either physically (whoops, dropped it and cracked the screen) or via software (whoops, update bricked the machine). Publisher revokes access to eBook for any reason or goes out of business or DRM server dies, whoops you can't read it anymore (yes you can turn off Wi-Fi but that also cuts you off from getting more books). Can't easily lend a book to a friend. Hope you remember your password, or your account isn't hacked.

eBooks have perks but to call it better in every way is asinine.
39.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 13:54
39.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 13:54
Sep 17, 2014, 13:54
 
PHJF wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 13:40:
Oh you mean like the telephone, or the TV set? Maybe like the desktop computer?

No... I mean like the radio. There is no "next gen" phone or TV. Print books are in every possible way inferior to ebooks.

Radio is still huge. It hasn't gone anywhere. I'm not sure what you're getting at? Also, print books is to ebooks as radio is to ???
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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38.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 13:53
38.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 13:53
Sep 17, 2014, 13:53
 
You know who else Amazon killed? Best Buy. No one seems to be mourning that.

Best Buy, also a company that sold products for a loss (CDs and DVDs.)
They also competed with Walmart and Target, who also routinely sell media for a loss. And Amazon, who I'm guessing does the same.

Media products like that start pricing wars. Can't blame just Amazon. Again, it's usually Walmart responsible because Walmart is both the most aggressive and the most manual. Everyone else just reacts to undercut them.
37.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 13:51
37.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 13:51
Sep 17, 2014, 13:51
 
InBlack wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 09:13:
PHJF wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 08:58:
As far as I'm concerned, print books are dead. In one or two more generations they'll become nothing more than a novelty.

Oh you mean like the telephone, or the TV set? Maybe like the desktop computer?

There will always be a demand for print books. It will shrink but it will be there, unless Amazon destroys it that is.

Right, I'd hate for libraries to go the way of the dodo. And reading on a tablet still isn't the same as reading a book.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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36.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 13:50
36.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 13:50
Sep 17, 2014, 13:50
 
Verno wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 08:57:
iPhone 6 Breaks Pre-Order Record.

I would love to know what feature people are preordering this for, I suspect its the name on the box.

Probably the fact that the iphone screen for the first time is now larger than a postage stamp?
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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35.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 13:45
35.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 13:45
Sep 17, 2014, 13:45
 
InBlack wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 04:07:
The publishers set the prices. However, what Amazon is doing is undercutting EVEN THE NET PRICES. I cannot stress how fucking low this is. They are selling the books for LESS than they bought them. They are still making money on the huge bestsellers (and all the assorted other shit that they now sell) but by undercutting all the rest of the books and selling them at a slight loss, they are ENLARGING their user base and destroying any and ALL kind of fair competition.

EDIT: Apparently you weren't talking about ebooks but paper books, or at least judging from your post in reply to PHJF. Paper books are on the way out. It's a sad reality of life. The newspapers all bitched and whined and moaned too when the internet was making them obsolete.

Find a new business model or go out of business. Life is hard. And again, small bookstores are doing fine.

Original reply below (I don't feel like modifying it.)

That's an interesting perspective, but seeing as how small bookstores (Ie, not the giant pieces of shit like Barnes and Noble) have been reporting steadily growing business for the past three years, I'm going to say that it's not born out in practice.

I don't know what Amazon pays for books or whether they make a loss on it or not. Since we're talking about ebooks here, I'm going to go with the generally held belief that since we're just talking about an additional digital copy, which can be generated for LITERALLY zero cost, the idea that you're suffering a loss on it is just stuck in the old "WELL DAMMIT, 9000 PEOPLE AT THE PUBLISHER HAVE TO EAT FROM THIS BOOK!" way of thinking.

None of the rest of the competition is big enough to afford to sell books at a LOSS.

Again, small bookstores are doing fine.

They are quickly and efficiently turning themselves into the only customer on the block. You sell to them, or you dont sell at all.

Yeah, it's amazing how quickly people will flock to a company that

A) Gives them good prices
B) Gives them great customer service
C) Treats the authors just as well as their customers

As someone who works for a company that does both retail and publishing, Amazon's practices are killings us.

Sorry to hear that. Find a new business model.

They are basically killing the industry.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No. What they are doing is killing the OLD industry. The industry that said that a fucking Ebook should be MORE EXPENSIVE THAN A PAPER VERSION. The industry that has long paid authors between 2-12% of the sales price of a book. The industry that has conspired with Apple to artificially keep the prices of ebooks well above what the market would otherwise pay.

You know what? FUCK that industry. Fuck it with a fucking rusty saw. It can't fucking die quickly enough.

All this bullshit "Oh, but publishers give advances to poor authors so they can quit their jobs and write!" broohaha in this letter is nothing but blatant fucking lies. Sure, they give advances. To the likes of Stephen King and Suzanne Collins. You think that as a peon writer you get any advances? You practically have to fucking pay THEM to get your fucking book on a shelf.

This is the DEFINITION of anti trust and needs to be stopped.

Yeah, no, it really isn't. The definition of anti-trust is what the big 5 publishers got their ass handed over in court: Illegal price fixing.

Amazon is creating a monopoly the likes of which the world has never seen.

Boohooo, as opposed to the monopoly of the big 5 which treated both its customers AND its product like shit. How terrible. Amazon treats both customers AND authors fantastically.

This currently benefits the consumer, but once they eliminate ALL competition guess who gets to pick up the bill.

Yeah yeah, waaaah, won't someone think of the children! It sounds very similar to the whole "Amazon's image will be eroded if this continues" whiny-ass fairytale bullshit in the letter itself.
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34.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 13:40
PHJF
 
34.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 13:40
Sep 17, 2014, 13:40
 PHJF
 
Oh you mean like the telephone, or the TV set? Maybe like the desktop computer?

No... I mean like the radio. There is no "next gen" phone or TV. Print books are in every possible way inferior to ebooks.
Steam + PSN: PHJF
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33.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 11:18
33.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 11:18
Sep 17, 2014, 11:18
 
InBlack wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 08:49:
PHJF wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 08:37:
Amazon wants the price for most ebooks to be around $10; they've said as much in plain English. They've declared this the best price point for a) sales numbers and b) revenue. Of course they are going to take a loss for the time being, they are trying to prove a point. As soon as shitheads like Hachette get the message and stop trying to sell ebooks for $25, Amazon won't have to undercut.

This currently benefits the consumer, but once they eliminate ALL competition guess who gets to pick up the bill....

There is no physical good for Amazon to have complete distributive control over. At the first sign of unjust ebook price hikes, somebody else will come in to distribute. There are no huge gears of commerce which need to be reconfigured to swing control away from Amazon.

I think you misunderstood me, sorry my bad I wasnt being clear. I was talking about PRINT books! This is something that has been rarely mentioned (if at all in the media) but which I have firsthand knowledge of. Their shenanigans with ebooks are just the tip of the iceberg people.

P.S. I agree that ebooks are generally overpriced, there is no reason why, for e.g. say a general fiction, ebook should cost more than the average mass market paperback.

I remember when Under the Dome came out. I got it new in Hardcover for, I think, $8.99 from Amazon.

Do you know why it was so cheap?

Walmart started a pricing war on it. Not Amazon. Amazon reacted. Walmart started it.
It's easy to blame Amazon, but they were not the first to start selling books below cost, and even now they are typically matching prices. Amazon's goal isn't to sell things for below cost. Their goal is to be the cheapest. As such, most of their pricing is done automatically. Humans set limits/rules, but a robot is out there scouring the internet. If someone has it cheaper, Amazon cuts price.

They aren't sitting there, Mr. Burnsing their hands together snickering, they're competing with Walmart and Target to make sure they have the best customer experience.
32.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 11:13
UHD
32.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 11:13
Sep 17, 2014, 11:13
UHD
 
Verno wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 08:57:
iPhone 6 Breaks Pre-Order Record.

I would love to know what feature people are preordering this for, I suspect its the name on the box.

It doesn't have to be just current-generation iPhone users preordering. It could be people changing platforms, or upgrading from ancient iPhones like the 3GS or something.

(I'm the former; sorry Windows Phone, what you do, you do well, but goddamn...)
31.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 09:13
31.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 09:13
Sep 17, 2014, 09:13
 
PHJF wrote on Sep 17, 2014, 08:58:
As far as I'm concerned, print books are dead. In one or two more generations they'll become nothing more than a novelty.

Oh you mean like the telephone, or the TV set? Maybe like the desktop computer?

There will always be a demand for print books. It will shrink but it will be there, unless Amazon destroys it that is.
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30.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 17, 2014, 08:58
PHJF
 
30.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 17, 2014, 08:58
Sep 17, 2014, 08:58
 PHJF
 
As far as I'm concerned, print books are dead. In one or two more generations they'll become nothing more than a novelty.
Steam + PSN: PHJF
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