Op Ed

Tiny Little Frogs - Gamergate and the RPS response with Brad Wardell. Thanks Mashiki.
I think that’s all fine. But it seems like the gaming media can talk about things other than games without attacking their readers. The objection isn’t about whether there’s a discussion on whether murdering prostitutes should give you HP is a good for society or not. The objection is saying that people who play that game are bad people.

If we game a game that is offensive, then tell us. We can take it. To emphasize: Game developers have a tremendous level of respect for gaming sites like RPS. We trust you. Your candid article is great thing. I wish it had come out 3 weeks ago before the well was poisoned by a dozen+ “gamers are losers” articles.

Salon.com - “I want a straight white male gaming convention”: How a culture war exploded in the video gaming world.
The sad thing is that even if you don’t believe that there is serious sexism in the gaming community, gamers do actually have serious reasons to be skeptical of their gaming press and developers. Game companies are nickel-and-diming consumers like never before, cutting out large sections of their games and selling them for full price while selling those add-ons for exorbitant fees. Meanwhile, Zoe Quinn may not be a real scandal, but game publishers and journalists who review games have gotten far too cozy – witness how Ubisoft gave an entire audience of journalists free tablets as they prepared to review its (in my opinion) fairly average game “Watch Dogs.”

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55 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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55.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 10, 2014, 07:55
55.
Re: Op Ed Sep 10, 2014, 07:55
Sep 10, 2014, 07:55
 
Their goal was never about getting more representation of females in games or changing Mario. That's irrelevant. It's all about attacking and splitting people apart. You see them in all facets of life. They are in politics, in universities, on television, writing for newspapers, and now they are in gaming. Video games are the catalyst. Their goal is to make people hate each other as much as they secretly hate themselves. Then they don't have to look at their own pathetic lives while scamming useful idiots of money to keep the agenda going forever.
Avatar 15920
54.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 10, 2014, 07:26
54.
Re: Op Ed Sep 10, 2014, 07:26
Sep 10, 2014, 07:26
 
Prez wrote on Sep 10, 2014, 04:11:
I could be wrong (as usual), but the fear that I may not be is what makes it really hard for me to follow the advice of the level-headed people here and leave the extremist agenda of the SJW's go unchallenged.

A few of the people here saying that are SJW types themselves so I would definitely ignore their advice, its self serving. These people pointed to twitter about dubious threats from one off accounts but suddenly when it isn't in their favor you shouldn't be listening to people there anymore. Last time I checked one person had posted over 200 times on this subject alone and seeks to suppress other opinions under sheer post volume, clearly an agenda there.

You should absolutely not ignore this kind of thing when its being fostered by the press too. I'll be right there with you.
Avatar 57682
53.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 10, 2014, 04:59
53.
Re: Op Ed Sep 10, 2014, 04:59
Sep 10, 2014, 04:59
 
Prez wrote on Sep 10, 2014, 04:11:
...I could be wrong (as usual), but the fear that I may not be is what makes it really hard for me to follow the advice of the level-headed people here and leave the extremist agenda of the SJW's go unchallenged.

Although I wouldn't agree that ignoring injustice by the SJW crew is being level headed, I agree with the sentiment expressed here.

I won't put the whole speaking up type poem here, but it's not a time to be quiet when there's injustice perpetrated by anyone, especially the SJWs and their gaming publications. Otherwise it will be too late, and we'll have to live in their world not ours.
52.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 10, 2014, 04:11
Prez
 
52.
Re: Op Ed Sep 10, 2014, 04:11
Sep 10, 2014, 04:11
 Prez
 
I really can appreciate what Moreluckthanskill and Dimitri are saying about avoiding engaging what amounts to meaningless claptrap from nobodies, and what Beamer is pointing out about the folly of attributing the words of extremist individuals to an entire community (even if his application of said principle has been a bit one-sided at times ). It's good to have someone remind everyone to maintain some perspective in things like this.

Maybe I am a tinfoil hat-wearing paraoid freak for fearing that if the SJW's get their way, only games that have the princess (properly clothed from ankle to neck, college degree and corporate executive career in hand of course) saving Mario, the weak-minded, sex-starved neandrathal alpha male from the evil cluthces of Bowser and Boom-boom will be made by developors for fear of reprisal by the activists and the complicit cow-towing media. Or maybe not so much. These days big corporations are often go to some alarming extremes in avoiding upsettign the politically correct police for fear of boycotts and other movements by extremist loons and their lemmings - why should we assume that game developers and publishers are somehow immune to this? It's easy to say they'll follow the money, since that's almost certainly true, but what happens when the voice of the activist vocal minority drowns out the silent majority enough (with the help of the shamelessly complicit gaming press) for them to believe that only by appeasing the whiners and complainers can they make the most money? Given how irrationally and illogically one-sided Sarkeesian's wrong-headed videos have been to this point, it's hard for me to believe that she'll be satisfied with only a certain percentage of games meeting her own personal standard of female portrayal. I suspect as long as there is one game out there that doesn't conform to her personal feminist standard, her crusade will continue. I further suspect that in the wake of "gamergate" (I know, I know...) the white-knighting press will only double down in effort to help her advance her personal agenda as they have shamelessly done to this point. I could be wrong (as usual), but the fear that I may not be is what makes it really hard for me to follow the advice of the level-headed people here and leave the extremist agenda of the SJW's go unchallenged.

This comment was edited on Sep 10, 2014, 04:18.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
51.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 10, 2014, 02:46
51.
Re: Op Ed Sep 10, 2014, 02:46
Sep 10, 2014, 02:46
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 10, 2014, 02:34:
ignore fucking morons
Beamer wrote on Sep 10, 2014, 02:34:
Stop
Beamer wrote on Sep 10, 2014, 02:34:
stop
Beamer wrote on Sep 10, 2014, 02:34:
goddamn adult
Beamer wrote on Sep 10, 2014, 02:34:
quit being a child
Beamer wrote on Sep 10, 2014, 02:34:
quit doing the dumb shit

While I agree with the gist that people need to stop pandering to attention seekers, I think you need to take a break too.

Get back to your conference calling and sexting.
Avatar 22350
50.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 10, 2014, 02:34
Beamer
 
50.
Re: Op Ed Sep 10, 2014, 02:34
Sep 10, 2014, 02:34
 Beamer
 
William Usher wrote on Sep 10, 2014, 02:29:
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Sep 10, 2014, 01:59:

I am honestly a little disappointed nobody has been compared to Hitler yet. Godwin's Law! It probably happened and I missed it though.

*EDIT* Grammar.



It happened on Twitter.

You'll also find plenty of it here:
http://gamergateharrassment.tumblr.com/

It's happened on twitter from both sides.
Which is why pointing to what idiots are doing on twitter is a bad idea.

Focus on what people here are doing. You know, the comparisons to Jack Thompson, or claims people are trying to take things away or censor. All of which is bullshit.

Fuck, why are you so hung up on what morons on twitter who may or may not be idiots from 4chan are saying? And then when some idiot #gamergate dude says something dumb, who may or may not be some idiot trying to make them look bad, you guys ignore it.

Let's agree to all ignore fucking morons on twitter. Stop using it as evidence of anything, and stop collecting it into asinine tumblrs. You're a goddamn adult with a goddamn job, quit being a child and quit doing the dumb shit like that Zoe Quinn "leak" everyone hated but is fucking doing themselves.
49.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 10, 2014, 02:29
49.
Re: Op Ed Sep 10, 2014, 02:29
Sep 10, 2014, 02:29
 
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Sep 10, 2014, 01:59:

I am honestly a little disappointed nobody has been compared to Hitler yet. Godwin's Law! It probably happened and I missed it though.

*EDIT* Grammar.

It happened on Twitter.

You'll also find plenty of it here:
http://gamergateharrassment.tumblr.com/
48.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 10, 2014, 01:59
48.
Re: Op Ed Sep 10, 2014, 01:59
Sep 10, 2014, 01:59
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Sep 10, 2014, 01:29:
] So you're saying that "voices of the game journalism and gaming industry" are just strangers in the street yelling insults? Are you saying then that their so inherently unable to control their emotions that their only action is to lash out at people to make them feel better about themselves, or to try and shout down opponents because they don't want to hear what they have to say.

While you're correct that corrupt journalism is not new, there reaches a point when people simply have enough. A reporters job is to give information, not shove their point of view down your throat while screaming that "you're worse than terrorists that rape young girls and women, commit mass murders, and slaughter civilians."

The man screaming in the street example was not a direct correlation to gaming journalists, but 'subjective journalism' was. Yelling back at the Street Heckler was supposed to be a very simple example of a situation that hopefully you would see as a ridiculous response to a somewhat similar situation.

Biased journalism, left/right/whatever leaning, has always been around. "Remember the Maine." How many articles and gaming journalists/critics actually said these things? like 5-10? Out of how many hundreds or thousands? How many used the ISIS analogy? One? Who did try to retract it, I believe. Try to keep some perspective.

Since you brought it up though, comparing a gamer, or all gamers, to an ISIS member(s) is so ridiculous it made me laugh at the idiocy of it, not get angry. A mistake you are making is thinking most of these gaming journalists have any sort of real training whatsoever. No sort of morality or objectivity in reporting training exists these days; almost all media sources are there at this point purely to generate traffic/views/revenue. I am astonished that anybody gets worked up about anything in any branch of the media, let alone gaming "journalism." We're a couple decades past any sort of objective media standards, ignoring the fact that most of the articles people are up in arms about were opinion pieces in the first place.

I am honestly a little disappointed nobody has been compared to Hitler yet. Godwin's Law! It probably happened and I missed it though.

*EDIT* Grammar.
Avatar 54863
47.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 10, 2014, 01:59
47.
Re: Op Ed Sep 10, 2014, 01:59
Sep 10, 2014, 01:59
 
I'm just amazed as many people as have been complaining were as vested in the gaming media as this. Lesson learned, eh? For the past six years, I've used a combination of friends and YouTube to get informed/hyped about upcoming or current releases. I rarely bother with formal reviews anymore - seeing some random player's spontaneous reaction to a game mechanic tells me boatloads more than most written pieces ever well.
46.
 
No subject
Sep 10, 2014, 01:29
46.
No subject Sep 10, 2014, 01:29
Sep 10, 2014, 01:29
 
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Sep 10, 2014, 01:17:
When a random stranger is yelling insults in the street, I always go up and yell insults back at him, louder. That'll teach him!

I find it hilarious that your Mencken quote in your signature suggests you should probably take the high road(the harder path, of course) in such a situation.

Corrupt and/or subjective journalism is nothing new. Voicing prejudices about groups of people is nothing new. Both are terrible of course, but the answer really isn't more anger or vitriol.
So you're saying that "voices of the game journalism and gaming industry" are just strangers in the street yelling insults? Are you saying then that their so inherently unable to control their emotions that their only action is to lash out at people to make them feel better about themselves, or to try and shout down opponents because they don't want to hear what they have to say.

While you're correct that corrupt journalism is not new, there reaches a point when people simply have enough. A reporters job is to give information, not shove their point of view down your throat while screaming that "you're worse than terrorists that rape young girls and women, commit mass murders, and slaughter civilians."
--
"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
45.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 10, 2014, 01:17
45.
Re: Op Ed Sep 10, 2014, 01:17
Sep 10, 2014, 01:17
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Sep 10, 2014, 00:49:
sdgundamx wrote on Sep 9, 2014, 23:46:

So to echo your thoughts, yeah. Everyone needs to calm the f*** down and start talking to each other like rational human beings.
Lemmie know when the gaming media stops telling gamers they're misogynists, rapists, pedophiles, worse than isis, and I'll get back to you on that.

When a random stranger is yelling insults in the street, I always go up and yell insults back at him, louder. That'll teach him!

I find it hilarious that your Mencken quote in your signature suggests you should probably take the high road(the harder path, of course) in such a situation.

Corrupt and/or subjective journalism is nothing new. Voicing prejudices about groups of people is nothing new. Both are terrible of course, but the answer really isn't more anger or vitriol.

Avatar 54863
44.
 
No subject
Sep 10, 2014, 00:49
44.
No subject Sep 10, 2014, 00:49
Sep 10, 2014, 00:49
 
sdgundamx wrote on Sep 9, 2014, 23:46:

So to echo your thoughts, yeah. Everyone needs to calm the f*** down and start talking to each other like rational human beings.
Lemmie know when the gaming media stops telling gamers they're misogynists, rapists, pedophiles, worse than isis, and I'll get back to you on that.
--
"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
43.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 9, 2014, 23:46
43.
Re: Op Ed Sep 9, 2014, 23:46
Sep 9, 2014, 23:46
 
That's a great comment and I totally agree this whole thing has taken on a life of its own and eclipsed gaming.

To be honest, I think this incident has made gamers look bad as a whole. The behavior of some gamers on both sides of the issue has been frankly pretty embarrassing to watch. These people might be a vocal minority, but they're the ones getting the attention from the non-gaming press and making us all look like douches, in my opinion.

So to echo your thoughts, yeah. Everyone needs to calm the f*** down and start talking to each other like rational human beings.

And there are certainly issues that need to be talked about: the representation of minorities (including women) in video games, journalists getting schwag from game companies hoping to get favorable reviews/previews, and so on.

I can tell you one thing though--labeling people with pejorative terms (i.e. "SJW"), refusing to read what an author or website has to say because you disagree with their stance on an issue, posting 15 minute YouTube rants that are heavy on personal attacks but light on anything remotely factual--these things are not going to help the gaming community deal with these issues.

MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Sep 9, 2014, 23:19:
This whole thing is ridiculous. First off, random youtubers and anonymous or pseudonymed internet writers need to stop claiming they have any idea what "gamers" want. Secondly, corruption, in all walks of life, is hardly new. What a surprise that some game "journalists" or even developers may or may not have less than spotless practices. Thirdly, the sheer amount of money involved in video games means nothing will really threaten the industry in any significant way. Relax. Fourthly, guess what, opinions will differ. If somebody else sees sexism or racism in a video game or any work of art, you may calmly disagree. Different opinions will always exist. Relax.

I sure as shit do not see any billion dollar franchises, or even the new crop of Indie games, being suddenly destroyed or forced to redo entire games because of a few game critics. Gaming is not under attack, gaming is arguably one of the strongest industries period. Nuclear war wouldn't even slow it down at this point. If you are a illogically fearful white male, guess what, relax, there will always be games that feature white male leads, shooting brown people/aliens/nazis and rescuing scantily clad females. If you don't quite fit into the above category, relax, there are more games coming out than you or anyone else will even live to play, most likely. You will always be able to find your gaming niche.

Even if every single person involved in this supposed controversy went to fucking prison tomorrow, or conversely, every harassment and threat led to an arrest of some asshole, nothing would really happen to the game industry. It will steamroll on for a long, long time. Nothing will happen to your games. There is too much money involved. Relax. There is no need for you to threaten anyone, cause DoS attacks, or do anything else that is illegal and immoral. Have some self control. If somebody else is overreacting, then you overreacting in response is really not going to do anything positive. It just makes you look ridiculous. Two wrongs don't make a right, etc.

Relax.

PS. The only reason I occasionally post in these threads is because this junk keeps clogging up my bluesnews.

*EDIT* Typo.
42.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 9, 2014, 23:27
42.
Re: Op Ed Sep 9, 2014, 23:27
Sep 9, 2014, 23:27
 
Julio wrote on Sep 9, 2014, 17:43:
Bodolza wrote on Sep 9, 2014, 17:02:
Pardon me for barely paying attention to this issue, but is this actually news to anyone?

Definitely news when it comes to indie gaming; and also showing the lack of credibility of Kotaku, RPS etc. Which may have been perceived to be less dishonest than traditional media.

Anyone who may believe that has a short fucking memory. Gaming "journalism" has always been hopelessly mobbed up ever since the beginning and nothing has changed.

I mean, if the Kane & Lynch thing that happened like 7 years ago wasn't enough to shake things up, what makes anyone think that this shit is going to improve anything?

Just treat gaming "journalism" for the Weekly World News tabloids that it is and get on with your life.
41.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 9, 2014, 23:19
41.
Re: Op Ed Sep 9, 2014, 23:19
Sep 9, 2014, 23:19
 
This whole thing is ridiculous. First off, random youtubers and anonymous or pseudonymed internet writers need to stop claiming they have any idea what "gamers" want. Secondly, corruption, in all walks of life, is hardly new. What a surprise that some game "journalists" or even developers may or may not have less than spotless practices. Thirdly, the sheer amount of money involved in video games means nothing will really threaten the industry in any significant way. Relax. Fourthly, guess what, opinions will differ. If somebody else sees sexism or racism in a video game or any work of art, you may calmly disagree. Different opinions will always exist. Relax.

I sure as shit do not see any billion dollar franchises, or even the new crop of Indie games, being suddenly destroyed or forced to redo entire games because of a few game critics. Gaming is not under attack, gaming is arguably one of the strongest industries period. Nuclear war wouldn't even slow it down at this point. If you are a illogically fearful white male, guess what, relax, there will always be games that feature white male leads, shooting brown people/aliens/nazis and rescuing scantily clad females. If you don't quite fit into the above category, relax, there are more games coming out than you or anyone else will even live to play, most likely. You will always be able to find your gaming niche.

Even if every single person involved in this supposed controversy went to fucking prison tomorrow, or conversely, every harassment and threat led to an arrest of some asshole, nothing would really happen to the game industry. It will steamroll on for a long, long time. Nothing will happen to your games. There is too much money involved. Relax. There is no need for you to threaten anyone, cause DoS attacks, or do anything else that is illegal and immoral. Have some self control. If somebody else is overreacting, then you overreacting in response is really not going to do anything positive. It just makes you look ridiculous. Two wrongs don't make a right, etc.

Relax.

PS. The only reason I occasionally post in these threads is because this junk keeps clogging up my bluesnews.

*EDIT* Typo.
Avatar 54863
40.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 9, 2014, 19:40
JSP
40.
Re: Op Ed Sep 9, 2014, 19:40
Sep 9, 2014, 19:40
JSP
 
Polytron under FBI investigation

Phil Fish is under FBI investigation for having funneled money to develop Fez through Indie Cade, a system that grants money to indie game developer, whose investors including Fish himself sat on the Indie Gaming Festival judging panel that awarded his still unfinished game grand prizes in 2011 and 2012. The return on the investment by all involved in this scheme was around $700,000.

39.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 9, 2014, 17:43
39.
Re: Op Ed Sep 9, 2014, 17:43
Sep 9, 2014, 17:43
 
Bodolza wrote on Sep 9, 2014, 17:02:
Pardon me for barely paying attention to this issue, but is this actually news to anyone?

Definitely news when it comes to indie gaming; and also showing the lack of credibility of Kotaku, RPS etc. Which may have been perceived to be less dishonest than traditional media.
38.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 9, 2014, 17:13
UHD
38.
Re: Op Ed Sep 9, 2014, 17:13
Sep 9, 2014, 17:13
UHD
 
Bodolza wrote on Sep 9, 2014, 17:02:
Julio wrote on Sep 9, 2014, 16:37:
It's made it clear that 'game journalists' are for sale (either through sex or cash/goods)

Pardon me for barely paying attention to this issue, but is this actually news to anyone? Games journalism has been the pit of integrity for as long as I can remember. With rare exception, game reviews have always had a bad rep. For Christ's sake -- console companies had their own magazines in which they reviewed their own games.

It's not news. The only real difference is that sex might have been involved, which makes it The Worst Thing. Also maybe some people are being mean to 'gamers,' which means 'all gamers, yes even you. ESPECIALLY you.' All this combined means the feminazis are going to take away your favorite games and replace them with tampons or something, I don't know, the message is kinda iffy to make out through all the smoke.
37.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 9, 2014, 17:02
37.
Re: Op Ed Sep 9, 2014, 17:02
Sep 9, 2014, 17:02
 
Julio wrote on Sep 9, 2014, 16:37:
It's made it clear that 'game journalists' are for sale (either through sex or cash/goods)

Pardon me for barely paying attention to this issue, but is this actually news to anyone? Games journalism has been the pit of integrity for as long as I can remember. With rare exception, game reviews have always had a bad rep. For Christ's sake -- console companies had their own magazines in which they reviewed their own games.
36.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 9, 2014, 16:37
36.
Re: Op Ed Sep 9, 2014, 16:37
Sep 9, 2014, 16:37
 
I find the "gamergate" term useless, I much preferred the "quinnspiracy". As an issue, though it is very important.

It's made it clear that 'game journalists' are for sale (either through sex or cash/goods); and is as important an event as PC Gamer giving Dragon Age 2 a 94%. Some would prefer to sweep this under the rug, I'm looking for heads to roll.
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