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17. Re: Saturday Mobilization Aug 4, 2014, 13:13 Quboid
 
Politicians aren't going to waste their time watching cops' videos. In the UK, it would be the Independent Police Complaints Commission's job and they'd have people who have a clue check it, probably an ex-cop.  
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16. Re: Nobody Wants To Sleep In A Driverless Car Aug 4, 2014, 07:34 gray
 
Complete dross.

The article says that 7% would sleep, how is that nobody?

Also, I'm not sure the author is aware that 7 is a larger number than 5.3.

8.3% of people say that they would probably read, 5.3% say that they would watch TV (thatís probably a gross underestimate) and only 7% of respondents say that they would sleep.

 
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15. Re: Saturday Mobilization Aug 3, 2014, 22:42 Agent.X7
 
Quboid wrote on Aug 3, 2014, 09:21:
xXBatmanXx wrote on Aug 3, 2014, 08:33:
I really don't want them, I know the Minneapolis PD is going to try them out. Burnsville PD I believe has them, or they tried them out at one time. Here's the thing, I am recorded whenever I drive my car, for all traffic stops, and any interactions near my car.

It never once has helped me even though the evidence is right there and obvious.

How many cameras are you going to have? How good is the audio pickup? They can't see what a human sees and they can't hear what a human can hear.

People always want to record me at traffic stops, and that is fine. I tell them the department I work for, my name, my badge number, that they are also being recorded, and all information I just gave them will be at the bottom of their citation.

It is at an infant stage. Will it make cops act better? No. Will it make the public act better? No.

My questions is - what do you want this to accomplish?

The city or state puts a camera up somewhere and everyone cries about privacy, yet everyone wants to put a camera and mic on a cop and record everything we do.

When someone makes a mistake wearing this - are they going to also go back and play the 10,000,000 good things that person did along with that one mistake or comment?

Thanks Batman!

With regards to privacy: the difference is that if a police officer is present, my privacy is already gone. A camera on a street corner is another eye on me, a camera on a cop isn't. It's the officer's privacy which I don't have an answer for - it doesn't seem right to record everything they do even if a higher level of vigilance is warranted (as in, IMHO the police must be policed most).

I appreciate it would be limited in what it picks up. The sound and actions of someone close and in front of the cop is all I would expect, the person or persons who the officer is talking to.

Will people go back and look at past behaviour? No more or less than they do now, which is to say generally not but of the officer is accused of being a loose cannon then he or she would have 10,000,000 examples to the contrary.

I don't think the game-controller example would be a problem. In fact, I think the video would help as it may show that the cop had virtual zero time and that the other guy was an idiot. Some Internet sleuths would get it wrong but no one of any consequence - thankfully the sort of idiots that do this don't matter and I wouldn't let such numpties derail a good idea. Plenty of people would see the video and think "wow, that guy does get something gun-like out of their pocket. What an utter, utter moron!". Just don't put Reddit in charge of Internal Affairs.

The big question, and what I want this to accomplish is: how does this make people behave? You say no difference but the trials suggest otherwise. An 88% reduction in complaints seems like a big deal, albeit from a small sample, which I suspect is mostly down to potential perpetrators not trying to get out of trouble by getting the cop into it.

Unfortunately, the guy on the street is a police officer, and the guys in charge of reviewing shit like this are POLITICIANS. They pretty much are worse than people on the internet.

PS - The armchair fucktards I was referring to are the brass that will be reviewing this.
 
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14. Re: Saturday Mobilization Aug 3, 2014, 21:09 HorrorScope
 
LA has cameras on cops, they don't like them. Their reports do match to what the tape says, it puts a lot of pressure on them to do their job right. But the city is forcing them to, they can't afford the cost of their negligence.  
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13. Re: Saturday Mobilization Aug 3, 2014, 17:38 Ant
 
Cutter wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 19:49:
If the tech is good enough for a car to be self-driving then I'd totally sleep in it while it was driving. Totally.
Sleeping
Me too since I have disabilities. However, I would rather have Knight Rider's KITT.
 
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12. Re: Saturday Mobilization Aug 3, 2014, 09:21 Quboid
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Aug 3, 2014, 08:33:
I really don't want them, I know the Minneapolis PD is going to try them out. Burnsville PD I believe has them, or they tried them out at one time. Here's the thing, I am recorded whenever I drive my car, for all traffic stops, and any interactions near my car.

It never once has helped me even though the evidence is right there and obvious.

How many cameras are you going to have? How good is the audio pickup? They can't see what a human sees and they can't hear what a human can hear.

People always want to record me at traffic stops, and that is fine. I tell them the department I work for, my name, my badge number, that they are also being recorded, and all information I just gave them will be at the bottom of their citation.

It is at an infant stage. Will it make cops act better? No. Will it make the public act better? No.

My questions is - what do you want this to accomplish?

The city or state puts a camera up somewhere and everyone cries about privacy, yet everyone wants to put a camera and mic on a cop and record everything we do.

When someone makes a mistake wearing this - are they going to also go back and play the 10,000,000 good things that person did along with that one mistake or comment?

Thanks Batman!

With regards to privacy: the difference is that if a police officer is present, my privacy is already gone. A camera on a street corner is another eye on me, a camera on a cop isn't. It's the officer's privacy which I don't have an answer for - it doesn't seem right to record everything they do even if a higher level of vigilance is warranted (as in, IMHO the police must be policed most).

I appreciate it would be limited in what it picks up. The sound and actions of someone close and in front of the cop is all I would expect, the person or persons who the officer is talking to.

Will people go back and look at past behaviour? No more or less than they do now, which is to say generally not but of the officer is accused of being a loose cannon then he or she would have 10,000,000 examples to the contrary.

I don't think the game-controller example would be a problem. In fact, I think the video would help as it may show that the cop had virtual zero time and that the other guy was an idiot. Some Internet sleuths would get it wrong but no one of any consequence - thankfully the sort of idiots that do this don't matter and I wouldn't let such numpties derail a good idea. Plenty of people would see the video and think "wow, that guy does get something gun-like out of their pocket. What an utter, utter moron!". Just don't put Reddit in charge of Internal Affairs.

The big question, and what I want this to accomplish is: how does this make people behave? You say no difference but the trials suggest otherwise. An 88% reduction in complaints seems like a big deal, albeit from a small sample, which I suspect is mostly down to potential perpetrators not trying to get out of trouble by getting the cop into it.
 
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11. Re: Saturday Mobilization Aug 3, 2014, 09:14 Pumas
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Aug 3, 2014, 08:33:
The city or state puts a camera up somewhere and everyone cries about privacy, yet everyone wants to put a camera and mic on a cop and record everything we do.

Gonna cherry pick this. Sorry.

Politicians and enforcement officers need to get one thing straight. You work for the People. You have only the authority and trust we provide you. If the People will that you are recorded at all times, that is our prerogative. If the People will that we are recorded at no time...again, that is our prerogative. If you are uncomfortable with that, you are welcome to find work that better suits you.

Many of your fellow officers have violated the trust of the People and abused the authority given to them. That's not your fault, but you should certainly expect that the People will now be putting your work under more scrutiny than in the past in order to protect our interests.
 



How will I know limits from lies if I never try?
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10. Re: Saturday Mobilization Aug 3, 2014, 08:33 Retired
 
Quboid wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 21:02:
I have heard anecdotally that plenty of cops who have taken part in trials of on-body cameras have been very keen on it. Also (source):
Police officers in Rialto, California, were issued with video cameras. Last month they reported an 88% reduction in complaints filed against officers and a 60% fall in incidents where officers used force.

Are these drops because the cops behave better or because people don't try to lie? I suspect it's heavily the later, as the anecdotal evidence suggests. Cops get plenty of stick and some deserve it but I assume the average cop is just someone making ends meet who doesn't want hassle, doesn't want to get hurt, doesn't want to get fired and ideally would maybe make a bit of a difference - i.e. a human being.

Batman, do you have any experience of this sort of thing? (Cameras on cops, not being a human being.)

I really don't want them, I know the Minneapolis PD is going to try them out. Burnsville PD I believe has them, or they tried them out at one time. Here's the thing, I am recorded whenever I drive my car, for all traffic stops, and any interactions near my car.

It never once has helped me even though the evidence is right there and obvious.

How many cameras are you going to have? How good is the audio pickup? They can't see what a human sees and they can't hear what a human can hear.

People always want to record me at traffic stops, and that is fine. I tell them the department I work for, my name, my badge number, that they are also being recorded, and all information I just gave them will be at the bottom of their citation.

It is at an infant stage. Will it make cops act better? No. Will it make the public act better? No.

My questions is - what do you want this to accomplish?

The city or state puts a camera up somewhere and everyone cries about privacy, yet everyone wants to put a camera and mic on a cop and record everything we do.

When someone makes a mistake wearing this - are they going to also go back and play the 10,000,000 good things that person did along with that one mistake or comment?
 
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9. Re: Saturday Mobilization Aug 3, 2014, 03:37 jdreyer
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Aug 3, 2014, 02:45:
Cutter wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 19:49:
If the tech is good enough for a car to be self-driving then I'd totally sleep in it while it was driving. Totally.
Sleeping

I'm with you. Road trips would be so much nicer, and you could catch up on lost sleep on the way to and from work. In fact, some sleeper sofas instead of back seats would be awesome.

Very quickly, if not initially, computers will be better drivers than people.
 
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8. Re: Saturday Mobilization Aug 3, 2014, 02:45 Agent.X7
 
Cutter wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 19:49:
If the tech is good enough for a car to be self-driving then I'd totally sleep in it while it was driving. Totally.
Sleeping

I'm with you. Road trips would be so much nicer, and you could catch up on lost sleep on the way to and from work. In fact, some sleeper sofas instead of back seats would be awesome.
 
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7. Re: Saturday Mobilization Aug 3, 2014, 02:31 Agent.X7
 
Happening already, folks.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2014/03/10/denver-police-to-get-body-cameras/

Denver PD is trying it out.


The problem with police work is that some situations require the officer to quickly assess and deal with an incoming issue. Some guy pops out in front of you, screams "Fuck you pig!" and points something black and gun-like at you and your brain has .2 of a second to react. Your training takes over and you draw your duty weapon and shoot the guy. Turns out, he was holding something that you thought was a weapon but wasn't. Now an army of armchair fucktards that have never been in that sort of situation will pick that incident apart and crucify you for it. Oh look, when I pause the video that's clearly a video game controller. Why didn't you know that?

Clearly the guy didn't need to be shot, but how was the cop supposed to know? Why wasn't the man aware that acting like you are threatening a cop's life (or any armed citizen's life, for that matter) is grounds to get your ass ventilated?

It's kind of a double edged sword. On one hand you have it keeping everyone honest and polite, but on the other hand you have people using it to crucify officers.

This comment was edited on Aug 3, 2014, 02:41.
 
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6. Re: Saturday Mobilization Aug 2, 2014, 21:02 Quboid
 
I have heard anecdotally that plenty of cops who have taken part in trials of on-body cameras have been very keen on it. Also (source):
Police officers in Rialto, California, were issued with video cameras. Last month they reported an 88% reduction in complaints filed against officers and a 60% fall in incidents where officers used force.

Are these drops because the cops behave better or because people don't try to lie? I suspect it's heavily the later, as the anecdotal evidence suggests. Cops get plenty of stick and some deserve it but I assume the average cop is just someone making ends meet who doesn't want hassle, doesn't want to get hurt, doesn't want to get fired and ideally would maybe make a bit of a difference - i.e. a human being.

Batman, do you have any experience of this sort of thing? (Cameras on cops, not being a human being.)
 
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5. Re: Saturday Mobilization Aug 2, 2014, 20:15 NamecaF
 
Saboth wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 18:44:
Creston wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 16:15:
Don't fly drones over our police stations. We do that to you, it shouldn't happen the other way around. Trust us, we're the good guys.

Every cop should have to wear 2 cameras on their person, with a front and rear facing camera in their car while on duty. Strange that cops don't want to be recorded. Wouldn't you want evidence of crimes, crime scenes and arrests for trial? Why should a trial have just the verbal recollection of a cop's memories for something that may have happened 1-2 years ago? Unless they have something to hide...

I dont know about 2 cameras, but some states in Australia are trialing Google Glass type cameras on cops to record everything they see, do and say (including what offenders and witnesses do and say). It's a win-win I say.
 



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4. Re: Saturday Mobilization Aug 2, 2014, 19:49 Cutter
 
If the tech is good enough for a car to be self-driving then I'd totally sleep in it while it was driving. Totally.
Sleeping
 
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3. Re: Saturday Mobilization Aug 2, 2014, 18:44 Saboth
 
Creston wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 16:15:
Don't fly drones over our police stations. We do that to you, it shouldn't happen the other way around. Trust us, we're the good guys.

Every cop should have to wear 2 cameras on their person, with a front and rear facing camera in their car while on duty. Strange that cops don't want to be recorded. Wouldn't you want evidence of crimes, crime scenes and arrests for trial? Why should a trial have just the verbal recollection of a cop's memories for something that may have happened 1-2 years ago? Unless they have something to hide...
 
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2. Re: Saturday Mobilization Aug 2, 2014, 16:18 Eirikrautha
 
Creston wrote on Aug 2, 2014, 16:15:
Don't fly drones over our police stations. We do that to you, it shouldn't happen the other way around. Trust us, we're the good guys.

You beat me to it.

Some animals are more equal than others...
 
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1. Re: Saturday Mobilization Aug 2, 2014, 16:15 Creston
 
Don't fly drones over our police stations. We do that to you, it shouldn't happen the other way around. Trust us, we're the good guys.  
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