Op Ed

Polygon - No skin thick enough- The daily harassment of women in the game industry.
The problem with sharing these stories in broad terms is that people think men and women receive the same harassment online. They do not. I’m not writing this piece to evoke your sympathy. I’m writing to share with you what prominent, successful women in the industry experience, in their own words.

Rock, Paper, Shotgun - Game Names Are Almost Universally Terrible.
Seriously it’s not that hard why are you all so bad at this aauuugh.

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117 Replies. 6 pages. Viewing page 5.
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37.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 15:37
37.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 15:37
Jul 23, 2014, 15:37
 
If you click on Polygon articles I would like you to post your name and address so I can come slap some sense into you.
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36.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 15:37
36.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 15:37
Jul 23, 2014, 15:37
 
PHJF wrote on Jul 23, 2014, 15:14:
Men will ALWAYS dominate this planet, unless a woman creates an army strong enough to defeat man altogether (and unless there's some kind of sex wars that started and I haven't heard about it then that's probably never going to happen).

Don't be so dramatic. The current upper echelon is still mostly comprised of or immediately descended from rich, white, conservative men. They're going to die off and be replaced by men whose only experience with gross misogyny comes from watching Mad Men. I highly doubt the new breed will be half as resentful or hostile toward women coworkers and employees.
honestly, I was making a joke (as usual). of course this is a ridiculous, dramatic statement but also and sadly, this is still the type of mentality that rules the day. and yes, I believe you to be very correct in saying that this will be bred out of us eventually as a society, but I believe that will take a very very very long time.
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35.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 15:15
35.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 15:15
Jul 23, 2014, 15:15
 
Bodolza wrote on Jul 23, 2014, 15:02:
jdreyer wrote on Jul 23, 2014, 14:45:
1960s: Those people that write about racial inequality should just shut up already. Constantly writing about it won't do anything.

Are people burning symbols on women's lawns? How many games have "men only" sections, and will beat up women if they try to play? Are there parades in city streets promoting the superiority of men over women? How many women have been literally hung for gaming?

Ridiculous comparisons only succeed in turning off those who might actually support a cause.

So why make the ridiculous comparisons that you did? You were the one who offered them.

The only comparison being drawn was the reaction some people have when the issue is discussed. Everything else you're trying to introduce is just setting up a straw-man.
34.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 15:15
34.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 15:15
Jul 23, 2014, 15:15
 
Julio wrote on Jul 23, 2014, 11:04:
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Jul 23, 2014, 09:18:
Let me just say, I've worked in female dominated industries that includes medium and heavy manufacturing where women are mainly harness assemblers; and men do receive the same type of harassment.

Exactly, I work at a female dominated place, and there's plenty of harassment and discrimination against men. It would be nice if people could just treat everyone the same, but it's not likely.

This so much... women who think they are unique peaches (with their problems ,p) may really be that in their specific industry.. but by the gods, you walk out of the games industry into any female dominated industry (in a public position) and you are constantly harassed too.

The thing is, men don't talk about it.

And no, this does not mean I do not see that as a problem, but what do these women expect us to do? The way this entire debate goes ostracizes men as a whole and this is why the entire debate leads to even HARSHER backlash.

That Internet toxicity is increasing is also false. There are just communities that are extremely toxic (youtube and any MOBA comes to mind...) and women get hit by that more because the same kind of retards that are toxic against noobs are often also toxic against women specifically.

I really think there is some truth that criticism by females is somehow processed in a different part of the brain in a male, and that this part in the brain makes males instantly feel attacked.. wonder if I am the same in that regard. But if you try to fight nature as your agenda you are on a losing track if there ever was one...!

This comment was edited on Jul 23, 2014, 15:26.
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33.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 15:14
PHJF
 
33.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 15:14
Jul 23, 2014, 15:14
 PHJF
 
Men will ALWAYS dominate this planet, unless a woman creates an army strong enough to defeat man altogether (and unless there's some kind of sex wars that started and I haven't heard about it then that's probably never going to happen).

Don't be so dramatic. The current upper echelon is still mostly comprised of or immediately descended from rich, white, conservative men. They're going to die off and be replaced by men whose only experience with gross misogyny comes from watching Mad Men. I highly doubt the new breed will be half as resentful or hostile toward women coworkers and employees.
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32.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 15:10
UHD
32.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 15:10
Jul 23, 2014, 15:10
UHD
 
Verno wrote on Jul 23, 2014, 14:52:
Comparing this to womens suffrage is absolutely ridiculous. "Also do nothing but do it loudly" isn't much of a solution either. I was just recognizing that it will take time for the gender spread to be more equal, its already started in many ways when you look at the past 10 years and how the demographics have changed.

Your presumption is that the gender spread will equalize (assuming 50/50 I guess) and that equal representation will solve the problem outright. That's not necessarily the case, particularly if the culture doesn't change, and it doesn't make it okay to handwave the current state of affairs.

It is absolutely harmful because it furthers the idea that men should look at women as sexual objects first and people second. That is one of the main points of the article. Women can't complain on one hand while ignoring it on the other. If we must endure a hundred articles on this subject then they can write some aimed at the women who are also prolonging that mentality.

You're blaming the victim. How do you not see that?
31.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 15:02
31.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 15:02
Jul 23, 2014, 15:02
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 23, 2014, 14:45:
1960s: Those people that write about racial inequality should just shut up already. Constantly writing about it won't do anything.

Are people burning symbols on women's lawns? How many games have "men only" sections, and will beat up women if they try to play? Are there parades in city streets promoting the superiority of men over women? How many women have been literally hung for gaming?

Ridiculous comparisons only succeed in turning off those who might actually support a cause.
30.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 15:00
30.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 15:00
Jul 23, 2014, 15:00
 
SlimRam wrote on Jul 23, 2014, 14:56:
Just a quick life lesson from yours truly.

Men have always dominated this planet.

Men will ALWAYS dominate this planet, unless a woman creates an army strong enough to defeat man altogether (and unless there's some kind of sex wars that started and I haven't heard about it then that's probably never going to happen).

Men mostly have designed and created society and the laws that govern it.

If women want anything to change they simply have to remove all men from positions of power. And the only way that'll ever happen is if there is war against men, worldwide, and they win. The problem with this is men tend to be very good at war & in times of crisis, they band together.

So there you have it, the problem is solved, either sex war against the entire world or nothing changes. Simple really

There are people who feel the same about race as you do about gender. They are also incorrect in their assumptions.
29.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 14:56
29.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 14:56
Jul 23, 2014, 14:56
 
Just a quick life lesson from yours truly.

Men have always dominated this planet.

Men will ALWAYS dominate this planet, unless a woman creates an army strong enough to defeat man altogether (and unless there's some kind of sex wars that started and I haven't heard about it then that's probably never going to happen).

Men mostly have designed and created society and the laws that govern it.

If women want anything to change they simply have to remove all men from positions of power. And the only way that'll ever happen is if there is war against men, worldwide, and they win. The problem with this is men tend to be very good at war & in times of crisis, they band together.

So there you have it, the problem is solved, either sex war against the entire world or nothing changes. Simple really
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28.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 14:56
Beamer
 
28.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 14:56
Jul 23, 2014, 14:56
 Beamer
 
And I get all these common responses because I used to throw them out there, too.

Then, at some point, I decided to stop talking and stop thinking about how these articles made me feel and what they said about me and decided to just stop, read, and see what the people involved said rather than what the guys getting all defensive said.

After a while, it became obvious how much truth there was to that. But I had to stop looking at how anything impacted me directly. I feel most guys are terrible at that. Like any time it comes up here. You get people being extremely angry because they think the articles are saying they, individually, are bad people doing wrong things. Though some of you are. TheWraith, you're a bad person.
27.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 14:54
Beamer
 
27.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 14:54
Jul 23, 2014, 14:54
 Beamer
 
TheEmissary wrote on Jul 23, 2014, 14:52:
jdreyer wrote on Jul 23, 2014, 14:45:
1960s: Those people that write about racial inequality should just shut up already. Constantly writing about it won't do anything.

It should be talked about but not at the expense of ignoring other similar issues. There is lot of discrimination and harassment in general that needs to be sorted out. It isn't like women are the only groups getting harassed. Its just one of the more visual groups.

The tech industry discriminates against people based on age quite a lot and other industries have there other biases.


The other common male response:
"Hey, I mean, that's bad, but look at this other bad thing going on! We need to lump everything together, because that's how solutions are reached! Dividing and conquering is never a good way to do that, instead distracting and being overwhelmed is best!"
26.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 14:53
Beamer
 
26.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 14:53
Jul 23, 2014, 14:53
 Beamer
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 23, 2014, 14:45:
1960s: Those people that write about racial inequality should just shut up already. Constantly writing about it won't do anything.

That's the argument I never get. I mean, I understand that many men feel that these articles blame them as individuals and then get hyperdefensive about it - that they see it as attacks.
But their solution is to ignore the problem? That's worked on so many issues in the past.
25.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 14:52
25.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 14:52
Jul 23, 2014, 14:52
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 23, 2014, 14:45:
1960s: Those people that write about racial inequality should just shut up already. Constantly writing about it won't do anything.

It should be talked about but not at the expense of ignoring other similar issues. There is lot of discrimination and harassment in general that needs to be sorted out. It isn't like women are the only groups getting harassed. Its just one of the more visual groups.

The tech industry discriminates against people based on age quite a lot and other industries have there other biases.

24.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 14:52
Verno
 
24.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 14:52
Jul 23, 2014, 14:52
 Verno
 
UHD wrote on Jul 23, 2014, 14:08:
Time isn't going to naturally cure all wounds; women's suffrage wasn't a time-release issue. It took effort. You're right that it's not a simple problem with simple solutions. "Do nothing because that's just the way it is" is a simple solution.

Comparing this to womens suffrage feels almost like hyperbole. "Also do nothing" isn't much of a solution either, this article isn't really making any significant points of action. I was just recognizing that it will take time for the gender spread to be more equal, its already started in many ways when you look at the past 10 years and how the demographics have changed. People like the idea that we can all just hop to a solution and make it happen over night but this sort of change is very gradual and requires patience.

I don't think the proverbial GAMERGURL harms the cause of "don't be a dick to women" because you shouldn't be projecting the GAMERGURL's peculiarities onto other women. Much like saying ALL gamer dudez are sexist pigs. It's obviously not true universally, but the sentiment works both ways and doesn't excuse shitty behavior in either case.

It is absolutely harmful because it furthers the idea that men should look at women as sexual objects first and people second. That is one of the main points of the article. Women can't complain on one hand while ignoring it on the other. If we must endure a hundred articles on this subject then they can write some aimed at the women who are also prolonging that mentality.
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23.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 14:48
23.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 14:48
Jul 23, 2014, 14:48
 
Also, thank the FSM we're not talking about stupid game names again.
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22.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 14:45
22.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 14:45
Jul 23, 2014, 14:45
 
1960s: Those people that write about racial inequality should just shut up already. Constantly writing about it won't do anything.
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
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21.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 14:14
21.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 14:14
Jul 23, 2014, 14:14
 
Most people are harassed on a daily basis for a multitude of stupid reasons be it gender, race, age, orientation, political views, region, and so on. Harassment period needs to end and to do that we shouldn't be accepting of it any form. We shouldn't ignore the other forms it occurs.

It is a worth while topic but I don't think Polygon is helping matters. Constantly getting on the pulpit the way are is just going to cause people to get adversarial or just tune out.
20.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 14:13
Beamer
 
20.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 14:13
Jul 23, 2014, 14:13
 Beamer
 
Wraith wrote on Jul 23, 2014, 14:10:
Polygon's obsession with playing social justice warrior continues. Disabling comments on that story is the most fundamentally honest thing they've done all year. Their comments section has become a worthless echo-chamber filled with oh so concerned psuedo-feminist panderers. Any comment which doesn't pander to their pretensions is instantly deleted.

Feminism sees gaming nerds as an easy target for this kind of guilt trippery - because gaming nerds are poorly socialised, desperate to get laid and consequently will fall for this crap.

Trust me, little nerds, you fuck far more women by being an asshole than you do by pandering to them and putting up with their bullshit.

It's always nice when someone makes a post defending themselves that just proves the article's point.
19.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 14:10
19.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 14:10
Jul 23, 2014, 14:10
 
Polygon's obsession with playing social justice warrior continues. Disabling comments on that story is the most fundamentally honest thing they've done all year. Their comments section has become a worthless echo-chamber filled with oh so concerned psuedo-feminist panderers. Any comment which doesn't pander to their pretensions is instantly deleted.

Feminism sees gaming nerds as an easy target for this kind of guilt trippery - because gaming nerds are poorly socialised, desperate to get laid and consequently will fall for this crap.

Trust me, little nerds, you fuck far more women by being an asshole than you do by pandering to them and putting up with their bullshit.
18.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 23, 2014, 14:08
UHD
18.
Re: Op Ed Jul 23, 2014, 14:08
Jul 23, 2014, 14:08
UHD
 
Verno wrote on Jul 23, 2014, 12:55:
UHD wrote on Jul 23, 2014, 12:18:
Then what was the point of bringing up those things, except to present the argument that their presence somehow counterbalances the real problems? I'm genuinely curious.

I explained it below, it's not a simple situation. These things happen for a variety of reasons and understanding the reasoning is important. It's also important to understand that there might be nothing people can realistically do about the problem other than allow time to pass. It's also important to acknowledge that women have a role in helping influence their own destiny too, thats why I brought up the example of women who actually damage their own "cause".

Time isn't going to naturally cure all wounds; women's suffrage wasn't a time-release issue. It took effort. You're right that it's not a simple problem with simple solutions. "Do nothing because that's just the way it is" is a simple solution.

I don't think the proverbial GAMERGURL harms the cause of "don't be a dick to women" because you shouldn't be projecting the GAMERGURL's peculiarities onto other women. Much like saying ALL gamer dudez are sexist pigs. It's obviously not true universally, but the sentiment works both ways and doesn't excuse shitty behavior in either case.
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