Op Ed

Polygon - No skin thick enough- The daily harassment of women in the game industry.
The problem with sharing these stories in broad terms is that people think men and women receive the same harassment online. They do not. I’m not writing this piece to evoke your sympathy. I’m writing to share with you what prominent, successful women in the industry experience, in their own words.

Rock, Paper, Shotgun - Game Names Are Almost Universally Terrible.
Seriously it’s not that hard why are you all so bad at this aauuugh.

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117 Replies. 6 pages. Viewing page 2.
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97.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 25, 2014, 12:28
Beamer
 
97.
Re: Op Ed Jul 25, 2014, 12:28
Jul 25, 2014, 12:28
 Beamer
 
Mad Max RW wrote on Jul 25, 2014, 12:18:
A rebuttal to what exactly? How bullying and harassment as a pretense to getting your way by hiding behind "equality" and "tolerance" is bad? That has to be explained? People like Beamer and jdreyer don't care at all about helping others. They are in it just for making everyone feel as miserable as they are. Racism, women's rights, gay marriage, etc. doesn't matter to them. It's pretend. It's a show. They latch onto these things only to perpetuate an intolerance they created. That's their motive. Not to help but to make everyone fight each other. Meanwhile any actual gains are lost because of their bogus ideas.

Your worldview is terrifying.
96.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 25, 2014, 12:24
Verno
 
96.
Re: Op Ed Jul 25, 2014, 12:24
Jul 25, 2014, 12:24
 Verno
 
A response to the issue/article is what I meant, not the people you're angry at for various reasons. Beamer is one of two people on my permanent ignore list and will never come off but JD is pretty level headed and you just disagree on this. There's really no need for "does being a SJW get you laid" type crap, that's some childish stuff.
Playing: FF7R
Watching: The Last Dance
Avatar 51617
95.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 25, 2014, 12:18
95.
Re: Op Ed Jul 25, 2014, 12:18
Jul 25, 2014, 12:18
 
A rebuttal to what exactly? How bullying and harassment as a pretense to getting your way by hiding behind "equality" and "tolerance" is bad? That has to be explained? People like Beamer and jdreyer don't care at all about helping others. They are in it just for making everyone feel as miserable as they are. Racism, women's rights, gay marriage, etc. doesn't matter to them. It's pretend. It's a show. They latch onto these things only to perpetuate an intolerance they created. That's their motive. Not to help but to make everyone fight each other. Meanwhile any actual gains are lost because of their bogus ideas.
Avatar 15920
94.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 25, 2014, 11:57
Verno
 
94.
Re: Op Ed Jul 25, 2014, 11:57
Jul 25, 2014, 11:57
 Verno
 
Mad Max RW wrote on Jul 25, 2014, 09:41:
If you're gullible enough to think Beamer and jdreyer are sincere then you're as worthless as they are.

So make an actual rebuttal like the rest of us instead of poo flinging. It doesn't matter if you convince them or not, other people read it too.
Playing: FF7R
Watching: The Last Dance
Avatar 51617
93.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 25, 2014, 11:37
93.
Re: Op Ed Jul 25, 2014, 11:37
Jul 25, 2014, 11:37
 
then you're as worthless as they are.

Not nearly as worthless as your opinion on them.

Trollbashing
Avatar 56185
92.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 25, 2014, 11:19
92.
Re: Op Ed Jul 25, 2014, 11:19
Jul 25, 2014, 11:19
 
Mad Max RW wrote on Jul 25, 2014, 09:41:
If you're gullible enough to think Beamer and jdreyer are sincere then you're as worthless as they are.

You know what? I'll make it easier for you. Since my opinion is more or less congruent with theirs you can probably just put me on your ignore list, too.
Saves you the trouble of actually reading and thinking about opinions different from yours. Why discuss anything when you can fling around terms like "social justice warrior", something I'd have rather expected from kids on 4chan.

Yes, nationwide demonstrations against sexism in video games might be too much but it's still a problem and I cannot fathom why this article is such a problem for most users here.
91.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 25, 2014, 10:19
Beamer
 
91.
Re: Op Ed Jul 25, 2014, 10:19
Jul 25, 2014, 10:19
 Beamer
 
Mad Max RW wrote on Jul 25, 2014, 09:41:
If you're gullible enough to think Beamer and jdreyer are sincere then you're as worthless as they are.

What the hell does this even mean? "sincere?" Do you think everyone is really as self absorbed and solely self interested as you are?

Yes, you cretin, guys only care about women to get laid. But I also care about gays! Oh no, I must be bisexual!!!!!!
Then again, odds are you're one of those people that thinks people choose their sexuality.

Wait, half this board cares deeply about the plight of dogs. I didn't know this was a bestiality forum!
90.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 25, 2014, 09:41
90.
Re: Op Ed Jul 25, 2014, 09:41
Jul 25, 2014, 09:41
 
If you're gullible enough to think Beamer and jdreyer are sincere then you're as worthless as they are.
Avatar 15920
89.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 25, 2014, 08:45
89.
Re: Op Ed Jul 25, 2014, 08:45
Jul 25, 2014, 08:45
 
Mad Max RW wrote on Jul 24, 2014, 19:43:
jdreyer, has pretending to be a feminist social justice warrior ever succeeded in getting you laid? Do you go through this same routine in real life?

Mad Max RW wrote on Jul 24, 2014, 20:13:
I'm assuming the resident social justice warrior underneath me just said another one of his weak retorts. Having him on ignore is so nice.

It will never cease to amaze me watching these lonely people preach from the safety of their ivory tower penthouses, latching onto the weekly "equality" bandwagon just to troll video game websites with their nonsense. That's why the Beamers and the jdreyers of the world act the way they do. They are lonely.

m(

Please, just stop. I'm embarrassed for both of us.
88.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 24, 2014, 23:03
88.
Re: Op Ed Jul 24, 2014, 23:03
Jul 24, 2014, 23:03
 
Mad Max RW wrote on Jul 24, 2014, 20:13:
I'm assuming the resident social justice warrior underneath me just said another one of his weak retorts. Having him on ignore is so nice.

It will never cease to amaze me watching these lonely people preach from the safety of their ivory tower penthouses, latching onto the weekly "equality" bandwagon just to troll video game websites with their nonsense. That's why the Beamers and the jdreyers of the world act the way they do. They are lonely.

http://i.imgur.com/wd9vFoV.gif
Avatar 17249
87.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 24, 2014, 20:13
87.
Re: Op Ed Jul 24, 2014, 20:13
Jul 24, 2014, 20:13
 
I'm assuming the resident social justice warrior underneath me just said another one of his weak retorts. Having him on ignore is so nice.

It will never cease to amaze me watching these lonely people preach from the safety of their ivory tower penthouses, latching onto the weekly "equality" bandwagon just to troll video game websites with their nonsense. That's why the Beamers and the jdreyers of the world act the way they do. They are lonely.
Avatar 15920
86.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 24, 2014, 20:04
Beamer
 
86.
Re: Op Ed Jul 24, 2014, 20:04
Jul 24, 2014, 20:04
 Beamer
 
Mad Max RW wrote on Jul 24, 2014, 19:43:
jdreyer, has pretending to be a feminist social justice warrior ever succeeded in getting you laid? Do you go through this same routine in real life?

Yup, the only reason to give a shit about women is to get laid.


Yet another, predictable post from another, predictable poster proving the point.
Jesus, that's a lot of ps.
85.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 24, 2014, 19:43
85.
Re: Op Ed Jul 24, 2014, 19:43
Jul 24, 2014, 19:43
 
jdreyer, has pretending to be a feminist social justice warrior ever succeeded in getting you laid? Do you go through this same routine in real life?
Avatar 15920
84.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 24, 2014, 17:38
NKD
84.
Re: Op Ed Jul 24, 2014, 17:38
Jul 24, 2014, 17:38
NKD
 
Parallax Abstraction wrote on Jul 24, 2014, 09:26:
NKD wrote on Jul 24, 2014, 06:53:
The flavor of feminism that is prevalent on the Internet today straight up isn't working. The Internet is more toxic for women than it has ever been, and like I said, people are becoming polarized instead of working together to find solutions.

This is in regards to the recent new hire at Giant Bomb but I think TotalBiscuit hit the nail on the head. There are important issues in games like representation that should be discussed but the discussion has become so dominated by bull-headed people on both sides who only think in binary absolutes and treat even mild disagreement as a call to war that a lot of reasonable participants are just throwing up their hands and saying "I don't agree with either of you so I'm out." That's quickly what I'm becoming.

Just listened to that bit from TB, and he's really right on there. There's no point in even having the discussion anymore. The douchebags and the Tumblr SJWs can just fight it out amongst each other and accomplish nothing. Those of us who are reasonable, rational human beings are giving up on the subject.

You're either a woman hating bigot, or a beta pussy whipped faggot. Well I'm tired of being called either one of those, so good luck folks you're on your own.
Thou art an artless, greasy tallow-catch.
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83.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 24, 2014, 12:15
Verno
 
83.
Re: Op Ed Jul 24, 2014, 12:15
Jul 24, 2014, 12:15
 Verno
 
Parallax Abstraction wrote on Jul 24, 2014, 09:26:
NKD wrote on Jul 24, 2014, 06:53:
The flavor of feminism that is prevalent on the Internet today straight up isn't working. The Internet is more toxic for women than it has ever been, and like I said, people are becoming polarized instead of working together to find solutions.

This is in regards to the recent new hire at Giant Bomb but I think TotalBiscuit hit the nail on the head. There are important issues in games like representation that should be discussed but the discussion has become so dominated by bull-headed people on both sides who only think in binary absolutes and treat even mild disagreement as a call to war that a lot of reasonable participants are just throwing up their hands and saying "I don't agree with either of you so I'm out." That's quickly what I'm becoming.

I agree with the core causes of lack of representation of women and minorities in games and the games industry. I'd love to see more of both, seriously. But the absolute entrenchment of people on both sides of this debate who basically say "You either agree with me in full or you're as bad as the trolls." is only harming discourse. You can agree with a cause without fully supporting the position of its more extreme supporters (on either side) and having a different point of view on how to solve a problem.

The Polygon article in question here is not really what I'd call an extreme example but there have been far greater ones on that site and far more so elsewhere. A regular Polygon contributor is the person TB is referring to at the start of his commentary. Treating an important social discussion as a war instead of a discussion eventually leaves none but the most extreme participants present and that does no good for anyone.

That's pretty much where I'm at too. You can see several people doing it in this thread even, if you don't agree wholeheartedly with everything said then suddenly you're a woman hater who never gets laid and blah blah blah.
Playing: FF7R
Watching: The Last Dance
Avatar 51617
82.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 24, 2014, 12:01
82.
Re: Op Ed Jul 24, 2014, 12:01
Jul 24, 2014, 12:01
 
Redmask wrote on Jul 24, 2014, 07:15:
jdreyer wrote on Jul 24, 2014, 05:30:
You didn't even read the article, did you. How can you say she's OVERstating the case? She's describing ACTUAL events that happened to her and others. How is that OVERstating? Look, I get it. You want nuance, subtlety, reasoned debate. Well, let me welcome you to the real world. That's not what works. What works is in-your-face smashing of biases and forcing change on people.

Of course no one has ever overstated an issue or used extreme examples to make a point. Forget reasoned debate, how about any at all? The moment someone brings up something here they are immediately pounced on as if they are 'against women' and there is only one true view. The article won't even open for comments. Yeah its hard for me to take this more serious, I've been to countries where violence against women is a very immediate and serious problem in a way that not only interferes with day to day life but actually made you feel morally obligated to help. Guilt trip Tumblresque posts preaching to the choir on a Macbook while sitting at Starbucks? Not so much.

The artricle -was- originally open for comments...and by comparison with those comments, this thread (which has plenty of negative commentary, IMO) is heavenly. THAT is why they deleted and turned off commenting. Because the assholes showed up immediately and started in.
81.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 24, 2014, 09:26
81.
Re: Op Ed Jul 24, 2014, 09:26
Jul 24, 2014, 09:26
 
NKD wrote on Jul 24, 2014, 06:53:
The flavor of feminism that is prevalent on the Internet today straight up isn't working. The Internet is more toxic for women than it has ever been, and like I said, people are becoming polarized instead of working together to find solutions.

This is in regards to the recent new hire at Giant Bomb but I think TotalBiscuit hit the nail on the head. There are important issues in games like representation that should be discussed but the discussion has become so dominated by bull-headed people on both sides who only think in binary absolutes and treat even mild disagreement as a call to war that a lot of reasonable participants are just throwing up their hands and saying "I don't agree with either of you so I'm out." That's quickly what I'm becoming.

I agree with the core causes of lack of representation of women and minorities in games and the games industry. I'd love to see more of both, seriously. But the absolute entrenchment of people on both sides of this debate who basically say "You either agree with me in full or you're as bad as the trolls." is only harming discourse. You can agree with a cause without fully supporting the position of its more extreme supporters (on either side) and having a different point of view on how to solve a problem.

The Polygon article in question here is not really what I'd call an extreme example but there have been far greater ones on that site and far more so elsewhere. A regular Polygon contributor is the person TB is referring to at the start of his commentary. Treating an important social discussion as a war instead of a discussion eventually leaves none but the most extreme participants present and that does no good for anyone.
Parallax Abstraction
Podcast | YouTube | Mixer
80.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 24, 2014, 08:55
Verno
 
80.
Re: Op Ed Jul 24, 2014, 08:55
Jul 24, 2014, 08:55
 Verno
 
yuastnav wrote on Jul 24, 2014, 07:38:
After reading the article I am at a loss why so many of you find it so upsetting, as if it was attacking you personally.

Who said anyone is upset? People just want to discuss it and they can't do it there because they locked the comments from the start. Maybe people don't agree with their conclusions or think that their experiences aren't indicative of the norm but they have shut down all conversation which seems really bizarre when you're trying to get people on your side about something.
Playing: FF7R
Watching: The Last Dance
Avatar 51617
79.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 24, 2014, 08:17
79.
Re: Op Ed Jul 24, 2014, 08:17
Jul 24, 2014, 08:17
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 24, 2014, 02:15:
Here's what I'm hearing:


"I worked in the game industry, and I never saw this."

Good for you. You got lucky. That hardly means this isn't an issue. I don't even go looking for stories like this, yet come across them on a monthly basis. It's an issue, it exists, and the gaming industry is poorer for it. Tired of CoD clones? More women in the industry can help fix that.

As I am the only one who posted with my relevant experience within the industry, I can only surmise that this was personally directed at me. However, at no point did I say "I never saw this". In point of fact, I stated that I had seen it but in very small percentage of the population. You aren't "lucky" when the claimed rate of incidents doesn't match more than two decades worth of actual, direct experience. What I questioned was the veracity of the rate of incidents claimed. It stinks of hyperbole with the most vile of intent.

Let me reiterate this again, so it sticks out to you; I did not say that such behavior does not exist. In fact, I said quite the opposite. Got that clear in your head?

Do you know why you come across articles like this on a "monthly basis"? Because it generates clicks, targets a demographic for advertising and makes for eye grabbing headlines within that demographic. Call me cynical if you wish, but the first priority of any business is to generate profit and websites like Polygon aren't run on good wishes and happy thoughts.

As for your comment about "CoD clones", I know how to fix it for myself and it has nothing to do with gender. I simply do not purchase the games that do not interest me. However, there is very clearly an incredibly significant portion of the gaming population who disagrees with me and purchases those games to the tune of billions of dollars annually. White knighting this issue isn't going to change their tastes.

Further, we are seeing a more varied gaming ecosystem right now. With Kickstarter, Steam Greenlight and other platforms, plus easily available engines and assets like Unity and UDK, literally anyone can make any game they wish. Whether it is successful or not is another matter entirely but the option and availability are there. For good or ill, games like Elite, Star Citizen, Kerbal Space Program, Braid, and many others have proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt. I bet EA and ActiBlizzard would have loved to have their development costs offset so spectacularly as Star Citizen has.
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There are two types of computer users: Masochists and Linux users.

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78.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 24, 2014, 07:38
78.
Re: Op Ed Jul 24, 2014, 07:38
Jul 24, 2014, 07:38
 
Redmask wrote on Jul 24, 2014, 07:15:
jdreyer wrote on Jul 24, 2014, 05:30:
You didn't even read the article, did you. How can you say she's OVERstating the case? She's describing ACTUAL events that happened to her and others. How is that OVERstating? Look, I get it. You want nuance, subtlety, reasoned debate. Well, let me welcome you to the real world. That's not what works. What works is in-your-face smashing of biases and forcing change on people.

Of course no one has ever overstated an issue or used extreme examples to make a point. Forget reasoned debate, how about any at all? The moment someone brings up something here they are immediately pounced on as if they are 'against women' and there is only one true view. The article won't even open for comments. Yeah its hard for me to take this more serious, I've been to countries where violence against women is a very immediate and serious problem in a way that not only interferes with day to day life but actually made you feel morally obligated to help. Guilt trip Tumblresque posts preaching to the choir on a Macbook while sitting at Starbucks? Not so much.

Sexism comes in many forms. On one hand you do have places where violence against women etc. is a daily occurrence but on the other hand there are so called civilized community which, from the point of view of the law, have equality when it comes to gender but where "casual" sexism is still very prevalent. The only way to change that kind of behaviour is to point it out and to educate people from a young age.

After reading the article I am at a loss why so many of you find it so upsetting, as if it was attacking you personally.
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