The Mig-15 was in "Mig Alley" too. Great game.

bhcompy wrote on Jun 1, 2014, 03:37:

Task wrote on May 30, 2014, 17:56:
Ah man, no flyable Mig-15, my favorite aircraft of all time?

Chuck Yeager's Air Combat

Classic, classic game. I played the SHIT out of that back in the day. Hell, I remember when a preview of it was on the cover of Computer Gaming World in 1995 or so.

Makes me wonder how the F-86 is supposed to fit in. The way I understood previous announcements was they wanted to establish a modern day platform for the A-10, the Su-25, the Blackshark, the Huey, the Mi-28 and lots of upcoming stuff like the F-18 Super Hornet or the F-35 Lightning.
And the P-51 Mustang was supposed to be moved over to the upcoming WW2 1944 module, right?

So... where does the Sabre fit in? Are they going to work on yet another (Korean, early Nam) 1950s/1960s theater?

Task wrote on May 30, 2014, 17:56:
Ah man, no flyable Mig-15, my favorite aircraft of all time?

Chuck Yeager's Air Combat

Aero wrote on May 31, 2014, 19:57:
What you can do is just download DCS World on Steam, which is free. It comes with the an Su-25 (sort of the Russian equivalent of an A-10), and this will let you check out the basics of the sim without having to pay for anything.

I do own FC3, but the only difference between FC3 and the other DCS stuff is that the aircraft aren't modelled to the same level of detail (can't work the buttons in the cockpit and so on).

They actually just added a free trainer version of the P-51D called the TF-51D. Basically a full P-51D minus the weapons, center fuel tank, and radios, but you get the full flight model and clickable cockpit. So now you can get the full DCS flight experience without paying a cent. Pretty awesome.

Eirikrautha wrote on May 31, 2014, 14:50:

Aero wrote on May 30, 2014, 21:41:
I don't know about this. I mean, of course I want an F-86, but as well as the full-detail DCS aircraft are modeled, and I have bought all of them (except the Mi-8), the rest of the sim leaves too much to be desired. Maybe when Edge or whatever they're calling it now is finally finished I'll take an interest again, but I'm sick to death of flying around the Crimea and the engine has serious performance issues with even moderately populated missions.

Basically, DCS is a fantastic button-pushing, rivet-counting sim, but after that, there isn't much to do. The A-10C and Blackshark provided hours of entertainment just learning how to operate their systems. The P-51, on the other hand, I had figured out in a couple hours, and the the UH-1 wasn't much better. The Sabre should be along the same lines.

Still, if and when we get Edge and if we get a Korean theater complete with Mig-15s and period correct Chinese ground units, that would be brilliant. Not counting IL-2 1946+mods, we haven't had a good Korean era combat sim since Mig Alley, and I have trouble imagining a better scenario--you have the power of swept-wing jets, but without all the BVR combat, endless faffing about with sensors, and so on. It was the pinnacle of seat-of-your-pants dogfighting.

All that said, if the price is right, I'll still probably pick it up when it's released. I'm guessing it's going to cost 50 USD though, and that's REALLY hard to justify.

Do you also have the "Flaming Cliffs" DLCs as well (I think that's now part of the whole DCS thing...)? I've been think of getting the latest one (as it looks more like a game and less like flight school to me), but I'm not sure I want to if it has the same flaws (in scenario/campaign diversity)...

What you can do is just download DCS World on Steam, which is free. It comes with the an Su-25 (sort of the Russian equivalent of an A-10), and this will let you check out the basics of the sim without having to pay for anything.

I do own FC3, but the only difference between FC3 and the other DCS stuff is that the aircraft aren't modelled to the same level of detail (can't work the buttons in the cockpit and so on).

Aero wrote on May 30, 2014, 21:41:
I don't know about this. I mean, of course I want an F-86, but as well as the full-detail DCS aircraft are modeled, and I have bought all of them (except the Mi-8), the rest of the sim leaves too much to be desired. Maybe when Edge or whatever they're calling it now is finally finished I'll take an interest again, but I'm sick to death of flying around the Crimea and the engine has serious performance issues with even moderately populated missions.

Basically, DCS is a fantastic button-pushing, rivet-counting sim, but after that, there isn't much to do. The A-10C and Blackshark provided hours of entertainment just learning how to operate their systems. The P-51, on the other hand, I had figured out in a couple hours, and the the UH-1 wasn't much better. The Sabre should be along the same lines.

Still, if and when we get Edge and if we get a Korean theater complete with Mig-15s and period correct Chinese ground units, that would be brilliant. Not counting IL-2 1946+mods, we haven't had a good Korean era combat sim since Mig Alley, and I have trouble imagining a better scenario--you have the power of swept-wing jets, but without all the BVR combat, endless faffing about with sensors, and so on. It was the pinnacle of seat-of-your-pants dogfighting.

All that said, if the price is right, I'll still probably pick it up when it's released. I'm guessing it's going to cost 50 USD though, and that's REALLY hard to justify.

Do you also have the "Flaming Cliffs" DLCs as well (I think that's now part of the whole DCS thing...)? I've been think of getting the latest one (as it looks more like a game and less like flight school to me), but I'm not sure I want to if it has the same flaws (in scenario/campaign diversity)...

Task wrote on May 30, 2014, 17:56:
Ah man, no flyable Mig-15, my favorite aircraft of all time?

It's been said on the DCS forums that the Mig-15 will be an AI target, but if that will be the case at launch, it's not clear. As with the P-51 and the 190D9, it will probably happen later. That should also mean that the Mig-15 will eventually be flyable too.

bigspender wrote on May 31, 2014, 03:31:
It takes less than 4 minutes if you know what you are doing its just a matter of knowing roughly the right steps, batteries, auxiliary power, fuel pumps, engines - and all of the Nav and misc stuff in between. And its pretty much the same procedure for most aircraft.

If, after you run through the (excellent) startup procedure tutorial to get oriented, you still don't want to run through startup or shutdown, you can use windowskey+home (startup) or windowskey+end (shutdown) and DCS will automagically do it for you.

While it's good to support dev effort of this level, the modules do get heavily discounted a couple times a year. I paid full price for the huey, but I picked up blackshark 2 and and a couple others for around $10 each.

These study sims are astounding in their detail. I wish I still had the time to dedicate to learning to fly them like I used to. Nothing is more rewarding than being able to play a successful mission in one of these hardcore flight sims.

SpectralMeat wrote on May 30, 2014, 16:10:

DangerDog wrote on May 30, 2014, 16:07:
I want to see them make an F35 sim that's accurate down to the engine start protocols.

Did you guys see that video I posted yesterday about the DCS-A10 start up protocols. It literally was like 20 minutes to get everything started and checked to roll out the run way.
Just insane, these "games" should be used to teach people how to fly these planes.

It takes less than 4 minutes if you know what you are doing its just a matter of knowing roughly the right steps, batteries, auxiliary power, fuel pumps, engines - and all of the Nav and misc stuff in between. And its pretty much the same procedure for most aircraft.

Also DCS is used to train real A-10C pilots, the public release of DCS is almost the same as the real simulator, except it has all of the classified stuff removed or replaced.

Its one of the most rewarding "games" i've played tbh its easier than Dark Souls and is just as much fun with a few friends

DCS stuff typically goes on sale at least 3 or 4 times a year with major discounts. If you don't want to pay full price, you don't have to. Just hold off a bit and keep your eyes open.

I don't know about this. I mean, of course I want an F-86, but as well as the full-detail DCS aircraft are modeled, and I have bought all of them (except the Mi-8), the rest of the sim leaves too much to be desired. Maybe when Edge or whatever they're calling it now is finally finished I'll take an interest again, but I'm sick to death of flying around the Crimea and the engine has serious performance issues with even moderately populated missions.

Basically, DCS is a fantastic button-pushing, rivet-counting sim, but after that, there isn't much to do. The A-10C and Blackshark provided hours of entertainment just learning how to operate their systems. The P-51, on the other hand, I had figured out in a couple hours, and the the UH-1 wasn't much better. The Sabre should be along the same lines.

Still, if and when we get Edge and if we get a Korean theater complete with Mig-15s and period correct Chinese ground units, that would be brilliant. Not counting IL-2 1946+mods, we haven't had a good Korean era combat sim since Mig Alley, and I have trouble imagining a better scenario--you have the power of swept-wing jets, but without all the BVR combat, endless faffing about with sensors, and so on. It was the pinnacle of seat-of-your-pants dogfighting.

All that said, if the price is right, I'll still probably pick it up when it's released. I'm guessing it's going to cost 50 USD though, and that's REALLY hard to justify.

Tom wrote on May 30, 2014, 18:45:
Really looking forward to this, and the MiG-21bis coming probably around the same time. Life is good in DCS World!

Belsimtek did a fantastic job with the UH-1H Huey. I expect greatness from the F-86F Sabre, especially given its reputation as a joy to fly.

I've read that the F86 engine is very slow to respond to throttle commands compared to current jets. Those were some of the first jet engines, after all, and I don't even think they had afterburners. But you do have to love guns-only air to air combat in jets. So it should be interesting to say the least.

DangerDog wrote on May 30, 2014, 16:50:

Wildone wrote on May 30, 2014, 16:36:
Then you'd be in jail, its classified.

DangerDog wrote on May 30, 2014, 16:07:
I want to see them make an F35 sim that's accurate down to the engine start protocols.

They're Russian Devs, I doubt they would give a crap about it being classified. That would just make it even better since everything is so hush hush with the F35.

The information simply isn't available. Only a few people have ever even flown the F-35, so making it accurate isn't an option.

The Airforce wants to retire the A-10 (the F-35 is to replace it, at least in operations (attack) if not the big gun)though the stealthiness should make it much better at AAA site hitting, and the only thing keeping them from doing it isn't capability concerns, but congress- it's built in several powerful congress member's regions.

This comment was edited on May 30, 2014, 21:05.

Task wrote on May 30, 2014, 19:51:

Wildone wrote on May 30, 2014, 19:15:
sensitive information about its capabilities they would not want the Russians especially to know about

Technically they should have plenty of information. Before the U.S. current government went balls to the wall imperialism stupid over Ukraine, Americans and Russians were jointly joining forces for mock "war games" in mock combats with their latest aircraft like the Mig-29 and F-35, or other types, so they could observe, the pilots could have some 'fun,' and share some info. They also sold aircraft to each other, the U.S. has some Su-27's and Russians have some F-14's and other stuff, etc.

The MiG-29 is a generation behind the F-35. The F-35 has not engaged in any US-Russian training exercises because its not operational yet. Both the Su-27 and F-14 are a generation behind the F-35. The Russians surely have a good general measure of what the F-35 can and cannot do, but unless they've been engaging in industrial and military espionage that puts the Chinese to shame, then they likely don't have access to all the engineering data, avionics data, and computer programming that's detail precisely what the F-35 is capable of.

Wildone wrote on May 30, 2014, 19:15:
sensitive information about its capabilities they would not want the Russians especially to know about

Technically they should have plenty of information. Before the U.S. current government went balls to the wall imperialism stupid over Ukraine, Americans and Russians were jointly joining forces for mock "war games" in mock combats with their latest aircraft like the Mig-29 and F-35, or other types, so they could observe, the pilots could have some 'fun,' and share some info. They also sold aircraft to each other, the U.S. has some Su-27's and Russians have some F-14's and other stuff, etc.

DangerDog wrote on May 30, 2014, 18:59:
How did they get the details on the A-10? I mean they seemed to have everything about it, just look at the user guide for the sim. At this point they could probably just come up with stuff and probably not be that far from the real thing.

It was initially a "desktop simulation" contracted by the Air National Guard designed to give A-10A pilots practice on the new avionics of the A-10C. The commercial DCS A-10C supposedly has 95% commonality with the ANG version, except for the remaining 5% of avionics functions which are still classified and thus removed/altered for the commercial product. And as Wildone notes, the A-10 is over 40 years old now and much of the data on it is no longer classified. Furthermore, it's an avionics light plane since it doesn't have, and doesn't need, radar and all of its impedimenta -- the Warthog's avionics just aren't that sensitive from a military secrecy standpoint.

A10s hardly new technology and its mostly public knowledge. I imagine the F35 has tons of computer controlled sensitive information about its capabilities they would not want the Russians especially to know about

Scottish Martial Arts wrote on May 30, 2014, 18:38:

DangerDog wrote on May 30, 2014, 16:50:
They're Russian Devs, I doubt they would give a crap about it being classified. That would just make it even better since everything is so hush hush with the F35.

Even if we assume that they'd be willing to never leave Russia again, lest they get arrested for espionage while traveling, the more pressing issue would be actually getting the data necessary to make an accurate simulation. How would you make an accurate start up sequence if you don't know the details of what avionics are on board, and how they're configured and operated? How would you construct an accurate flight model without access to the engineering data? How would you create an accurate electrical, fuel, or hydraulic model without knowing how they're designed? How would you accurately model the capabilities of the radar if all you know about the radar is its name?

To make what you want would require nothing less than theft of a whole boatload of highly classified data. Not even a Russian game dev would go that far.

How did they get the details on the A-10? I mean they seemed to have everything about it, just look at the user guide for the sim. At this point they could probably just come up with stuff and probably not be that far from the real thing.