descender wrote on Mar 20, 2014, 13:33:
God you both have wasted so much time on this. A blue posted on the D3 forums that 2H weapons are bugged and are not rolling as high damage as they should be. It'll be fixed.

Krovven wrote on Mar 20, 2014, 12:52:
AngelicPenguin, it's like talking to a wall with you. I've already said this...Blizz has claimed the 2h rolling as 1h has already been fixed in the last patch. Their current claim on 2h now is that it's because ilvl 63 rolls are no longer available....but I'm wasting my time repeating this to you.

And all Im saying about Orbs (and about the above) is you are wrong. It is possible to replace end game orbs. But you clearly know better than everyone else and you know what they had and what they upgraded with, without having seen it.

Krovven wrote on Mar 20, 2014, 05:29:
You are comparing apples and oranges. There are new stats and increased stat ranges that make up for the loss of those stats...regarding all items.

Since I need to make myself perfectly clear, 1h Dmg went up, 2h Dmg went down (or arguably stayed the same). Based on the changes to 1h, 2h should have gone up to 1600-1700 for good rolls compared to the increase for 1h at lvl 60.

Life Steal is a non issue. Life Steal is gone, period. It can't roll on anything anymore lvl's 1-70 and for legacy items it's effectiveness will severely diminish from lvl 61-70, being 0 use at lvl 70. Dmg from sources such as Reflect Damage has been reduced to compensate for this change. There is also still Life on Hit and some gained from Paragon points if you choose, which benefits all weapons.

Crit Damage was also a "must have" on weapons to drive up dps, making weapons without it drastically less useful. Now as I've already stated, weapons, specifically 2h without 2 sockets are a problem because of the Crit Dmg gem. Two 1h (or offhand) with sockets is going to be preferable (along with the already obvious higher Dmg rolls) than. 2h with just 1 socket. I have yet to see a 2h roll 2 sockets. And to cover something you said earlier, it's not just personal experience. We get to see what everyone in the clan is getting too.

There are stats that can't roll on various gear slots, for various reasons, with some exceptions when it comes to Legendaries. Crit Dmg is a change along this vein. This is not a case of one set of weapon types getting it while another can. So as I said before and will say till I'm blue in the face, and the facts are out there, 1h Dmg rolls are higher while 2h Dmg rolls did not get the same boost, making them in most (not all) cases inferior to using a 1h, the socket issue makes this worse. Some stat rolls will have an effect, some special abilities on weapons will also effect this. But that is not and never was the debate. The DMG rolls are skewed in favor of 1h currently.

And it does matter now an always will. Not everyone is going to get RoS and will continue to play at lvl 60. There is no reason for 1h to have gotten buffed at lvl 60 while 2h did not. You keep trying to argue this, yet Blizz HAS acknowledged the disparity with 2h but state its where they want it (after claiming there was a bug now fixed supposedly) and Blizz's 3rd and latest attempt at justifying the 2h disparity was due to ilvl 63 items no longer being available at lvl 60. Then why aren't 1h weapons only rolling 850-1000 and instead roll 1250-1450 regularly when ilvl 1h rolled max 1300's and that was very rare? It makes no sense.

Furthermore, as I've already stated, this was a complaint on the RoS beta as well and was pointed out to Blizz a long time ago. They have said they will keep an eye on it (citing 2h with shield) as being their concern. To which I stated before, balancing 2h solely around the Crusaders shield is stupid. Blizz is far from perfect and they have said things were fine one day (Legendary drop rate in RoS beta) and a day or two later changing their mind and "doubling it".

And since you clearly want to be a dick regarding the guy that had two wizards at 60 (point was that's ALL he plays); prepatch one wiz was paragon 100 and the other paragon 85ish. And he took a few months off Live messing with PTR before 2.0 went live. But it doesn't require someone to be knowledgable to grind out Paragon, or to get good gear as it could just be bought with gold or cash. Nor does knowledge have anything have to do with getting gear grade upgrades from pre to post patch. Your e-peen swinging means nothing.

Krovven wrote on Mar 20, 2014, 02:19:
If someone hasn't already, I will create a community group when I log in, in about 5min.

And done. Search in Online Communities for Blues News and you should find it. Open to public.

Krovven wrote on Mar 20, 2014, 02:18:
Getting back to the whole point...1h got better, 2h got worse, post patch. It's undeniable, the facts are out there.

Krovven wrote on Mar 20, 2014, 02:18:

AngelicPenguin wrote on Mar 19, 2014, 17:32:

Krovven wrote on Mar 19, 2014, 16:45:
That is only somewhat true about the Orbs.

Really depends on the orb you had before. End game 1.08 orb, the only way to really upgrade it now is to get a monster skill % damage on it, else the average damage roll will just cripple you (it's about half what they used to be.)

Trust me - I know wizard
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/GunnersDream-1109/hero/36460162

So do most of the people I play with. The guy I referred to earlier, all he plays is Wizard. He has 2 at 60 and never plays any other class, doesn't even have any other class played on his account. He had all high-end end game gear...he has upgraded his Orb. As with any gear, the better it was prepatch, harder it will be to replace post patch.

Getting back to the whole point...1h got better, 2h got worse, post patch. It's undeniable, the facts are out there.

AngelicPenguin wrote on Mar 19, 2014, 17:32:

Krovven wrote on Mar 19, 2014, 16:45:
That is only somewhat true about the Orbs.

Really depends on the orb you had before. End game 1.08 orb, the only way to really upgrade it now is to get a monster skill % damage on it, else the average damage roll will just cripple you (it's about half what they used to be.)

Trust me - I know wizard
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/GunnersDream-1109/hero/36460162

Krovven wrote on Mar 19, 2014, 16:45:
That is only somewhat true about the Orbs.

Krovven wrote on Mar 19, 2014, 16:19:

AngelicPenguin wrote on Mar 19, 2014, 15:59:

Krovven wrote on Mar 19, 2014, 15:55:
Avoiding the growing quote and not wanting to mess with it on my phone...

With the devs claiming 2h are in a good place and that it's due to the ilvl 63 weapons no longer being available now...then why the hell are 1h rolling over 1300 and 1400 dps when they never rolled that high before? As far as I know they haven't explained that.

That's just the new stat ranges - I'm not sure the question. 2 handers do indeed roll higher, just not by a whole lot. My only point was just that we don't see the whole picture yet.

Not sure where you think the confusion is. When 2h are rolling Dmg in the same range as 1h (they aren't rolling higher), they aren't rolling more stat affixes, the stats they are rolling are only slightly higher and don't have 2 sockets, in most cases they aren't going to compare to dual wield or 1h + offhand. This is all over their forums.
Not everyone is going to get RoS. If 1h and 2h aren't balanced for the whole leveling process, it's out of line. If its just fine at lvl 70, that isn't good enough.

Good 1h used to be 975-1250ish with an extremely rare few being higher. Then those were even better with socket and good stats. Good 2h were 1374-1550 with socket and good stats. Now good 1h (at 60) are 1300-1450 with the best 2h I have seen rolling around 1350, most being 1100-1250.

The devs have given 3 excuses. 2h tuned around Crusader using 2h and shield, a bug with 2h rolling as 1h (supposedly fixed now), and the ilvl 63 thing. I dont think they really know and are confused as to how to balance 2h. As I said in another thread, we'll see what happens at lvl 70...but this was a complaint in RoS beta and hasn't changed, so I don't expect it will be better at 70. We shall see.