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Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered

Obsidian announces their RPG previously known as Project Eternity will be released under the official title Pillars of Eternity. They celebrate the news with a new logo and a gameplay teaser trailer. They also offer a super-detailed tutorial on how you can give them more money, and a list of several interviews and previews for the game.

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35. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 12, 2013, 11:48 eRe4s3r
 
Jerykk wrote on Dec 12, 2013, 03:14:
Cutter wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 16:22:
Jerykk wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 12:32:
This isn't a contract at all. You never signed anything. Your pledge amounts to nothing more than a donation made in good faith. There are no guarantees or legal obligations involved whatsoever.

It never ceases to amaze me when people think of Kickstarters as investments with some sort of guaranteed return.

Clearly you don't understand what constitutes a contract. A contract has nothing to do with money changing hands. What is a contract?

http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/contract-law/

So, yes, this is very much a contract. We already have the terms of the agreement established. Now they're talking about altering those terms. They can't do that without permission. And yes, we can expect a return. Because if they had no intent in fulfilling the agreement in the first place than that constitutes fraud. You really need to learn some legal fundamentals before commenting on this sort of thing.

Good luck winning your case in court. When you support a Kickstarter, you are donating money to support a goal (the goal being the creation of a product). You are not purchasing said product. If the product is offered, it is offered as a reward for your donation and not as a formal purchase. There's a reason why Kickstarter uses the term "pledge." Hell, even if you were officially pre-ordering a game, you'd be laughed out of the courts if you tried to sue a publisher or developer for "altering terms." Games are delayed, altered and canceled all the time. Welcome to the games industry.

So, again, if you think of Kickstarter as a site that lets you pre-order games, you're thinking about it incorrectly. There are no guarantees and you should only donate money with that being fully understood.

BTW, Kickstarters explicitly say "Estimated Delivery," if the lack of guarantees wasn't already obvious.

I fully agree, but it was not tested in courts whether this is actually how a court would see it So IANAL applies. Imo there shouldn't even be a delivery date listed because of stretch goals throwing that idea of the water.... but KS probably fears that people would realize that a KS pledge is a high risk thing then....
 
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34. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 12, 2013, 08:18 eRe4s3r
 
Creston wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 15:19:
RPS did a cool article about the 15 level mega-dungeon, or the "dungeoniest dungeon of all time" right here.

It sounds SOO AAAWWEEESOOMMMEEE!!!!!

Damn that does indeed sound awesome A fully hand-crafted 15 level mega dungeon is something no game ever did before.... and if they put mechanics in that allow for proper progression and not enter-finish style dungeon experience this would be much appreciated....

Though I do wonder how they wanna make sure we don't grind our way down and then out level all the main-quest challenges by a huge margin.
 
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33. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 12, 2013, 04:44 GL1zdA
 
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 16:35:
1) More wilderness areas would be more fun for the players(debatable, I hated walking around mostly empty areas in IE games)
This is exactly what I enjoyed in BG1 - empty areas, where I could chill. It slows down the pace of the game and feels relaxing. It would be hard to add them later because it would likely make the game inconsistent.
 
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32. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 12, 2013, 03:14 Jerykk
 
Cutter wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 16:22:
Jerykk wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 12:32:
This isn't a contract at all. You never signed anything. Your pledge amounts to nothing more than a donation made in good faith. There are no guarantees or legal obligations involved whatsoever.

It never ceases to amaze me when people think of Kickstarters as investments with some sort of guaranteed return.

Clearly you don't understand what constitutes a contract. A contract has nothing to do with money changing hands. What is a contract?

http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/contract-law/

So, yes, this is very much a contract. We already have the terms of the agreement established. Now they're talking about altering those terms. They can't do that without permission. And yes, we can expect a return. Because if they had no intent in fulfilling the agreement in the first place than that constitutes fraud. You really need to learn some legal fundamentals before commenting on this sort of thing.

Good luck winning your case in court. When you support a Kickstarter, you are donating money to support a goal (the goal being the creation of a product). You are not purchasing said product. If the product is offered, it is offered as a reward for your donation and not as a formal purchase. There's a reason why Kickstarter uses the term "pledge." Hell, even if you were officially pre-ordering a game, you'd be laughed out of the courts if you tried to sue a publisher or developer for "altering terms." Games are delayed, altered and canceled all the time. Welcome to the games industry.

So, again, if you think of Kickstarter as a site that lets you pre-order games, you're thinking about it incorrectly. There are no guarantees and you should only donate money with that being fully understood.

BTW, Kickstarters explicitly say "Estimated Delivery," if the lack of guarantees wasn't already obvious.
 
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31. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 11, 2013, 17:56 Ceribaen
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 09:32:
Ceribaen wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 08:36:
Jerykk wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 04:39:
saluk wrote on Dec 10, 2013, 23:57:
Ceribaen wrote on Dec 10, 2013, 22:56:
Not a fan of the fact that they're setting up a poll though to open up more stretch goals.

Getting a Star Citizen feeling out of that... We'll just watch the next 6 months as they keep running a funding drive and adding stretch goals and not ever see a final product pushed out.

Not getting a Star Citizen feeling about it at all, but definitely not a fan of adding any more stuff at this point. It's nice that they opened it up to a poll first, but people are always going to vote yes on those kinds of thing. "Do you want us to make the game better? Yes/No"

So... what exactly is the problem here? If people are willing to give them more money to make the game even better, why is that bad? Sure, it will push the release back but if that results in a better game, is that really an issue?

Honestly, if you expect a Kickstarted game to meet its estimated release date, you haven't Kickstarted many games. Every single game I've Kickstarted has been delayed and in every case, this was to the benefit of the game. People complain about publishers pushing games out before they're ready and now they're complaining about crowd-funded games being delayed. Seems like developers just can't win.

Because I don't want to see feature creep at this point.

April 2014 was the KS date. It's now Winter 2014... and they're pitching for more funding/stretch goals (which implies pushing things out further). Just take what you have. Build it.

Or make it clear that any stretch goals go into an expansion or sequel of some sort so it doesn't impact the quality and delivery of the current game in development.

Most of the stretch goals they are talking about were pretty much asked for by fans. Namely: As many companions as there are classes and more wilderness to explore.... both hardly feature creep ;p And neither would delay any development currently going on. As you can assume the people writing companions and the ones making art assets will not be busy until release day, but they *could be* if they had more money. And that meant more content would be made in that time.

If it stays with these 2 primary stretch goals your worries are unfounded Neither will delay the game.

I just wish they'd be clearer with their poll.
I mean basically it's 'do you want to us to make more stuff if you give us more money? yes/no'.

Which last I looked was a 75/25 tendency towards yes being answered as expected (because really who doesn't want more stuff in the box at the end?).
But really, when reading through the comments of the poll thread it's a lot closer to a 35/40/25 split of 'yes/yes ONLY if no delays/no'

So they should be clarifying that point.
 
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30. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 11, 2013, 16:35 MoreLuckThanSkill
 
Trailer looks great, stretch goals sound iffy. However, reading their page a bit, the developers state why they would want to add more wilderness areas and 3 more companions:

1) More wilderness areas would be more fun for the players(debatable, I hated walking around mostly empty areas in IE games)

2) They want to have at least one companion of each class to the game, currently they are 3 short.(I agree with this at least, I like having a selection for every class for companions.)


They should just say that in the update, but I had to dig through the forums to find some random person quoting a developer in an interview.

the "rope kid" quotes


 
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29. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 11, 2013, 16:22 Cutter
 
Jerykk wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 12:32:
This isn't a contract at all. You never signed anything. Your pledge amounts to nothing more than a donation made in good faith. There are no guarantees or legal obligations involved whatsoever.

It never ceases to amaze me when people think of Kickstarters as investments with some sort of guaranteed return.

Clearly you don't understand what constitutes a contract. A contract has nothing to do with money changing hands. What is a contract?

http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/contract-law/

So, yes, this is very much a contract. We already have the terms of the agreement established. Now they're talking about altering those terms. They can't do that without permission. And yes, we can expect a return. Because if they had no intent in fulfilling the agreement in the first place than that constitutes fraud. You really need to learn some legal fundamentals before commenting on this sort of thing.
 
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28. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 11, 2013, 16:10 Optional Nickname!
 
Many of you would benefit from a re-playing of the now near-perfect Baldur's Gate series.

Not only would this be immensely enjoyable and give you a better perspective on modern RPGs, it would take so long to finish that Pillars of Eternity will have been patched, expanded, business-finished and fully tweaked...
 
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27. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 11, 2013, 15:19 Creston
 
RPS did a cool article about the 15 level mega-dungeon, or the "dungeoniest dungeon of all time" right here.

It sounds SOO AAAWWEEESOOMMMEEE!!!!!
 
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26. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 11, 2013, 15:02 John
 
Jerykk wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 12:32:
Cutter wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 09:36:

You're talking about breaking a contract here, not a delay. There are potential legal repercussions here. You don't alter the deal after it's done. Only Darth Vader can do that. Pray he doesn't alter it further. If they're going to push the game back for this then I'm demanding a refund. Few things chafe me more than when people don't keep their word.

This isn't a contract at all. You never signed anything. Your pledge amounts to nothing more than a donation made in good faith. There are no guarantees or legal obligations involved whatsoever.

It never ceases to amaze me when people think of Kickstarters as investments with some sort of guaranteed return.
Exactly. Also, this is something requested by and will be voted on by the backers. It's not like they're just going to change things because they feel like it..
 



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25. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 11, 2013, 13:45 Creston
 
It looks fantastic. I hope they'll put in a bit more reactivity to melee attacks, but other than that it's brilliant. I'm so looking forward to this.  
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24. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 11, 2013, 12:32 Jerykk
 
Cutter wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 09:36:
Jerykk wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 04:39:
So... what exactly is the problem here? If people are willing to give them more money to make the game even better, why is that bad? Sure, it will push the release back but if that results in a better game, is that really an issue?

Honestly, if you expect a Kickstarted game to meet its estimated release date, you haven't Kickstarted many games. Every single game I've Kickstarted has been delayed and in every case, this was to the benefit of the game. People complain about publishers pushing games out before they're ready and now they're complaining about crowd-funded games being delayed. Seems like developers just can't win.

You're talking about breaking a contract here, not a delay. There are potential legal repercussions here. You don't alter the deal after it's done. Only Darth Vader can do that. Pray he doesn't alter it further. If they're going to push the game back for this then I'm demanding a refund. Few things chafe me more than when people don't keep their word.

This isn't a contract at all. You never signed anything. Your pledge amounts to nothing more than a donation made in good faith. There are no guarantees or legal obligations involved whatsoever.

It never ceases to amaze me when people think of Kickstarters as investments with some sort of guaranteed return.
 
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23. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 11, 2013, 10:23 mellis
 
Cutter wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 09:36:
Jerykk wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 04:39:
So... what exactly is the problem here? If people are willing to give them more money to make the game even better, why is that bad? Sure, it will push the release back but if that results in a better game, is that really an issue?

Honestly, if you expect a Kickstarted game to meet its estimated release date, you haven't Kickstarted many games. Every single game I've Kickstarted has been delayed and in every case, this was to the benefit of the game. People complain about publishers pushing games out before they're ready and now they're complaining about crowd-funded games being delayed. Seems like developers just can't win.

You're talking about breaking a contract here, not a delay. There are potential legal repercussions here. You don't alter the deal after it's done. Only Darth Vader can do that. Pray he doesn't alter it further. If they're going to push the game back for this then I'm demanding a refund. Few things chafe me more than when people don't keep their word.

That would seem ... premature. If they deliver a piece of poo - but on time - would that make you happier? It takes at least 2 years (24 months) to push out a decent triple A game, and this was going to be no exception.

If they are forced to rush it, expectations will not be met, hopes ruined and you won't see another game like this for a while, especially not from a company that has come up with some excellent similar titles in this genre (looking at you Mask of the Betrayer).

Be patient, keep your toys in the pram and you'll likely get a worthy spiritual successor to Baldurs Gate, and if it sells well - the inevitable sequel will be oodles better.
 
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22. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 11, 2013, 09:36 Cutter
 
Jerykk wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 04:39:
So... what exactly is the problem here? If people are willing to give them more money to make the game even better, why is that bad? Sure, it will push the release back but if that results in a better game, is that really an issue?

Honestly, if you expect a Kickstarted game to meet its estimated release date, you haven't Kickstarted many games. Every single game I've Kickstarted has been delayed and in every case, this was to the benefit of the game. People complain about publishers pushing games out before they're ready and now they're complaining about crowd-funded games being delayed. Seems like developers just can't win.

You're talking about breaking a contract here, not a delay. There are potential legal repercussions here. You don't alter the deal after it's done. Only Darth Vader can do that. Pray he doesn't alter it further. If they're going to push the game back for this then I'm demanding a refund. Few things chafe me more than when people don't keep their word.
 
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21. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 11, 2013, 09:32 eRe4s3r
 
Ceribaen wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 08:36:
Jerykk wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 04:39:
saluk wrote on Dec 10, 2013, 23:57:
Ceribaen wrote on Dec 10, 2013, 22:56:
Not a fan of the fact that they're setting up a poll though to open up more stretch goals.

Getting a Star Citizen feeling out of that... We'll just watch the next 6 months as they keep running a funding drive and adding stretch goals and not ever see a final product pushed out.

Not getting a Star Citizen feeling about it at all, but definitely not a fan of adding any more stuff at this point. It's nice that they opened it up to a poll first, but people are always going to vote yes on those kinds of thing. "Do you want us to make the game better? Yes/No"

So... what exactly is the problem here? If people are willing to give them more money to make the game even better, why is that bad? Sure, it will push the release back but if that results in a better game, is that really an issue?

Honestly, if you expect a Kickstarted game to meet its estimated release date, you haven't Kickstarted many games. Every single game I've Kickstarted has been delayed and in every case, this was to the benefit of the game. People complain about publishers pushing games out before they're ready and now they're complaining about crowd-funded games being delayed. Seems like developers just can't win.

Because I don't want to see feature creep at this point.

April 2014 was the KS date. It's now Winter 2014... and they're pitching for more funding/stretch goals (which implies pushing things out further). Just take what you have. Build it.

Or make it clear that any stretch goals go into an expansion or sequel of some sort so it doesn't impact the quality and delivery of the current game in development.

Most of the stretch goals they are talking about were pretty much asked for by fans. Namely: As many companions as there are classes and more wilderness to explore.... both hardly feature creep ;p And neither would delay any development currently going on. As you can assume the people writing companions and the ones making art assets will not be busy until release day, but they *could be* if they had more money. And that meant more content would be made in that time.

If it stays with these 2 primary stretch goals your worries are unfounded Neither will delay the game.
 
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20. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 11, 2013, 08:36 Ceribaen
 
Jerykk wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 04:39:
saluk wrote on Dec 10, 2013, 23:57:
Ceribaen wrote on Dec 10, 2013, 22:56:
Not a fan of the fact that they're setting up a poll though to open up more stretch goals.

Getting a Star Citizen feeling out of that... We'll just watch the next 6 months as they keep running a funding drive and adding stretch goals and not ever see a final product pushed out.

Not getting a Star Citizen feeling about it at all, but definitely not a fan of adding any more stuff at this point. It's nice that they opened it up to a poll first, but people are always going to vote yes on those kinds of thing. "Do you want us to make the game better? Yes/No"

So... what exactly is the problem here? If people are willing to give them more money to make the game even better, why is that bad? Sure, it will push the release back but if that results in a better game, is that really an issue?

Honestly, if you expect a Kickstarted game to meet its estimated release date, you haven't Kickstarted many games. Every single game I've Kickstarted has been delayed and in every case, this was to the benefit of the game. People complain about publishers pushing games out before they're ready and now they're complaining about crowd-funded games being delayed. Seems like developers just can't win.

Because I don't want to see feature creep at this point.

April 2014 was the KS date. It's now Winter 2014... and they're pitching for more funding/stretch goals (which implies pushing things out further). Just take what you have. Build it.

Or make it clear that any stretch goals go into an expansion or sequel of some sort so it doesn't impact the quality and delivery of the current game in development.
 
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19. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 11, 2013, 07:43 John
 
InBlack wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 03:38:
"Hey we will hold the game back a bit to see if we can squeeze more moneyz outa you guyz...."

Thats kinda lame. No thats super lame. I was going to pay full price for this game when its released but this kind of behaviour is fucking unnaceptable is what it is. Sorry, but fuck that.

No, that's not what it is. It's a poll to decide whether backers would like to add more features that some have been asking for:

We've always taken your pledges seriously and we remain committed to giving our backers every stretch goal you reached during the Kickstarter campaign. Budgeting a game of this size can be daunting, but we always remember the cornerstones of our pitch and the features you funded. Even so, there are two things we know a lot of you have asked for: more wilderness areas and more companions. Both of these are very time-consuming, but we understand why so many people want them. Because we've seen these requests more than a few times, we would like to ask the community if you would be interested in new stretch goals to fund additional development. If not, no worries: we're still going to deliver on everything you've backed.
 



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18. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 11, 2013, 04:39 Jerykk
 
saluk wrote on Dec 10, 2013, 23:57:
Ceribaen wrote on Dec 10, 2013, 22:56:
Not a fan of the fact that they're setting up a poll though to open up more stretch goals.

Getting a Star Citizen feeling out of that... We'll just watch the next 6 months as they keep running a funding drive and adding stretch goals and not ever see a final product pushed out.

Not getting a Star Citizen feeling about it at all, but definitely not a fan of adding any more stuff at this point. It's nice that they opened it up to a poll first, but people are always going to vote yes on those kinds of thing. "Do you want us to make the game better? Yes/No"

So... what exactly is the problem here? If people are willing to give them more money to make the game even better, why is that bad? Sure, it will push the release back but if that results in a better game, is that really an issue?

Honestly, if you expect a Kickstarted game to meet its estimated release date, you haven't Kickstarted many games. Every single game I've Kickstarted has been delayed and in every case, this was to the benefit of the game. People complain about publishers pushing games out before they're ready and now they're complaining about crowd-funded games being delayed. Seems like developers just can't win.
 
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17. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 11, 2013, 04:21 Quinn
 
Well this actually does look good! I only cared to give it a look because Eraser mentioned it in another topic. I hope the game will have something that makes it descernable from a game from the late '90s but I guess we'll have to wait and see.  
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16. Re: Project Eternity Renamed; Trailered Dec 11, 2013, 03:55 Fantaz
 
so very very excite... i started playing thru Baulders Gate again on PC as part of my plan to not prevent procrastination, which is going oh so well

not sure i will pay full price, but prolly wait for steam sale on this

harlock wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 00:50:
daaaaaaaaaaaamn, son!

ye!
 
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