Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 15:50:
Dude. You are not getting it. Nobody made any claim about it being ok for liberals but not for conservatives. Nobody gave a damn that the Kochs created the TP. The ONLY point of dispute is that you were claiming that they weren't involved until later. THAT is the only thing that was being corrected. Everything else you've been saying is just straw-man bullshit. OK?
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 15:50:RollinThundr wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 15:36:Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 15:09:
Apparently you care since you were the one insisting that the TP is a grass roots thing from 2009. Soros has absolutely nothing to do with your claim and nobody else said anything about him. You were just wrong. Deal with it and quit bringing up irrelevant other crap.
As for the superpacs thing, I don't see a way to fix it short of doing public financing of campaigns. Even that is only a partial fix. Maybe you have some better idea that won't run afoul of the first amendment.
I don't think the first amendment has much to do with giving politicians tons of cash.
I shouldn't have to bring up the reason I mentioned him at all. It was merely to demonstrate that it's ok when liberals do it, fund causes and push their believes and agendas, you guys have zero issue with that. To be honest it's guys like Soros that caused the shift in this country to push forth the believe that everyone is entitled out of the womb. Not one person would have thought that way 20 years ago.
When conservative groups do it, you get upset about it. You can't have it both ways.
I think the message however is more important, so I'll repeat it again, smaller, streamlined and more limited government oversight, (yes you still need regulations for things don't go there) and reigning in the spending.
I really don't care how we get there to be honest.
Dude. You are not getting it. Nobody made any claim about it being ok for liberals but not for conservatives. Nobody gave a damn that the Kochs created the TP. The ONLY point of dispute is that you were claiming that they weren't involved until later. THAT is the only thing that was being corrected. Everything else you've been saying is just straw-man bullshit. OK?
As for the first amendment being an issue, look at how the money is used by the campaigns. They buy assloads of advertising with it. So what if the money doesn't go directly to the candidate but to some other corporation set up as a superpac or whatever other type of corp is convenient. Are we going to prevent them from running ads on TV? What if the ads don't specifically mention the candidate, even if they make it obvious who it is? How obvious would it have to be? That's just regulation hell right there, and I wouldn't want to go there.
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 15:36:Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 15:09:
Apparently you care since you were the one insisting that the TP is a grass roots thing from 2009. Soros has absolutely nothing to do with your claim and nobody else said anything about him. You were just wrong. Deal with it and quit bringing up irrelevant other crap.
As for the superpacs thing, I don't see a way to fix it short of doing public financing of campaigns. Even that is only a partial fix. Maybe you have some better idea that won't run afoul of the first amendment.
I don't think the first amendment has much to do with giving politicians tons of cash.
I shouldn't have to bring up the reason I mentioned him at all. It was merely to demonstrate that it's ok when liberals do it, fund causes and push their believes and agendas, you guys have zero issue with that. To be honest it's guys like Soros that caused the shift in this country to push forth the believe that everyone is entitled out of the womb. Not one person would have thought that way 20 years ago.
When conservative groups do it, you get upset about it. You can't have it both ways.
I think the message however is more important, so I'll repeat it again, smaller, streamlined and more limited government oversight, (yes you still need regulations for things don't go there) and reigning in the spending.
I really don't care how we get there to be honest.
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 09:35:Verno wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 08:47:
You can't get mad at them, you totally misrepresented something and got nailed on it. There is no dancing around it, my 5 year old knows better than to pull that crap. You want to push your agenda then at least own it when you screw up.
I'm not really mad to be honest, just eye rolling at how hypocritical most left leaning people are. I have read so much whining and crying about the tea party and what they stand for, when everyone who likes freedom and their rights should be moving to embrace them.
The 2 party system really is one party, they just have their spending priorities in difference places. I'd never thought I'd say it but really if we want any small possible chance at actual Hope and Change and not that bullshit Obama's been selling you, people would start voting for the Cruzs' and Pauls' of the world, rather than continuing to reelect the same bozos every 4 years, be they either D or R.
George Carlin really said it best, "Sooner or later the people of this country are going to realize government doesn't give a fuck about them,government doesn't care about you, All they're interested in is keeping and expanding their own power"
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 15:09:RollinThundr wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 12:14:Apparently you care since you were the one insisting that the TP is a grass roots thing from 2009. Soros has absolutely nothing to do with your claim and nobody else said anything about him. You were just wrong. Deal with it and quit bringing up irrelevant other crap.Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 12:11:RollinThundr wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 05:34:
Here's the thing, if you people are so upset that a group would like to actually respect the US Constitution and follow it, while at the same time being fine with a socialist douchenozzle like Soros doing the same exact thing for far longer pushing "progressive" drivel, I have zero to say to you.
I didn't realize either that Jenny Beth Martin, you know the person who actually co founded the tea party movement was a Koch brother. Keep drinking that liberal media kool aid however (grape drank flavor no doubt). Ridiculous claims indeed.
So Ms. Martin set up that Tea Party website back in 2002? Whatever. She's probably the last person that should be discussing fiscal responsibility anyway, given her own past.
Regardless, it isn't hypocritical to point out that the TP has a history that predates 2009. You keep adding your straw-man comments to try to make it seem that way, but I've never defended Soros or any other billionaire, since I really don't know much about them. I only looked into this TP question a while back because others like you were making this claim that the Kochs had nothing to do with its creation.
And Soros has been doing it since the 70's, who cares?
As for the superpacs thing, I don't see a way to fix it short of doing public financing of campaigns. Even that is only a partial fix. Maybe you have some better idea that won't run afoul of the first amendment.
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 12:14:Apparently you care since you were the one insisting that the TP is a grass roots thing from 2009. Soros has absolutely nothing to do with your claim and nobody else said anything about him. You were just wrong. Deal with it and quit bringing up irrelevant other crap.Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 12:11:RollinThundr wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 05:34:
Here's the thing, if you people are so upset that a group would like to actually respect the US Constitution and follow it, while at the same time being fine with a socialist douchenozzle like Soros doing the same exact thing for far longer pushing "progressive" drivel, I have zero to say to you.
I didn't realize either that Jenny Beth Martin, you know the person who actually co founded the tea party movement was a Koch brother. Keep drinking that liberal media kool aid however (grape drank flavor no doubt). Ridiculous claims indeed.
So Ms. Martin set up that Tea Party website back in 2002? Whatever. She's probably the last person that should be discussing fiscal responsibility anyway, given her own past.
Regardless, it isn't hypocritical to point out that the TP has a history that predates 2009. You keep adding your straw-man comments to try to make it seem that way, but I've never defended Soros or any other billionaire, since I really don't know much about them. I only looked into this TP question a while back because others like you were making this claim that the Kochs had nothing to do with its creation.
And Soros has been doing it since the 70's, who cares?
Verno wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 13:26:jdreyer wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 13:09:
Yup, because Junior was an idiot. But not even Soros can match the money from the right. For every Soros, there are five on the right, for example Koch, Adelson, Friess, Moskowitz, and Walton. And the right spends five times as much.
There has been a buying strategy on both sides, unquestionably worse on the right. No one sane will argue that. I think we've seen that approach doesn't work and there will be a stronger focus on traditional political campaigning and awareness for a new Republican image and message over the next five years. Smarter heads are slowly starting to prevail and I think the party is waking up to the realization that we need to eject the tea party types even if it costs us some leadership potential in the short term.
I see potential in people whose have specific views I might not agree with (Bobby Jindal for example opposes abortion and same sex marriage) but are otherwise smart enough to divide their personal morals and responsibility to govern.
jdreyer wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 13:09:
Yup, because Junior was an idiot. But not even Soros can match the money from the right. For every Soros, there are five on the right, for example Koch, Adelson, Friess, Moskowitz, and Walton. And the right spends five times as much.
jdreyer wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 13:09:RollinThundr wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 11:48:
Soros has funded candidates, This is the same guy that said he'd give up his entire fortune to see Junior out of office. Progessiveism or Liberalism or whatever the PC term is for it, is about half a step away from Communism to begin with.
Yup, because Junior was an idiot. But not even Soros can match the money from the right. For every Soros, there are five on the right, for example Koch, Adelson, Friess, Moskowitz, and Walton. And the right spends five times as much.
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 11:48:
Soros has funded candidates, This is the same guy that said he'd give up his entire fortune to see Junior out of office. Progessiveism or Liberalism or whatever the PC term is for it, is about half a step away from Communism to begin with.
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 12:11:RollinThundr wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 05:34:
Here's the thing, if you people are so upset that a group would like to actually respect the US Constitution and follow it, while at the same time being fine with a socialist douchenozzle like Soros doing the same exact thing for far longer pushing "progressive" drivel, I have zero to say to you.
I didn't realize either that Jenny Beth Martin, you know the person who actually co founded the tea party movement was a Koch brother. Keep drinking that liberal media kool aid however (grape drank flavor no doubt). Ridiculous claims indeed.
So Ms. Martin set up that Tea Party website back in 2002? Whatever. She's probably the last person that should be discussing fiscal responsibility anyway, given her own past.
Regardless, it isn't hypocritical to point out that the TP has a history that predates 2009. You keep adding your straw-man comments to try to make it seem that way, but I've never defended Soros or any other billionaire, since I really don't know much about them. I only looked into this TP question a while back because others like you were making this claim that the Kochs had nothing to do with its creation.
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 05:34:
Here's the thing, if you people are so upset that a group would like to actually respect the US Constitution and follow it, while at the same time being fine with a socialist douchenozzle like Soros doing the same exact thing for far longer pushing "progressive" drivel, I have zero to say to you.
I didn't realize either that Jenny Beth Martin, you know the person who actually co founded the tea party movement was a Koch brother. Keep drinking that liberal media kool aid however (grape drank flavor no doubt). Ridiculous claims indeed.
Verno wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 10:52:RollinThundr wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 10:35:
bunch of nonsense
Reality TV? Thin skins? Trying to blame your problems on everyone else when you accused other people of doing it not 2 pages ago? I give up, you are hopeless.
Getting back on topic and ignoring the madness:1. They Fund Crazies. Soros isn't funding the Communist party. If he did, we'd be hearing about it, constantly. The tea party is the right wing equivalent. Also, Soros didn't fund candidates, but the right funded some crazy candidacies: Adelson funded Gingrich's candidacy, and Friess funded Santorum (don't Google that ). Both of those guys are nuts who never would have been viable if not for billionaire backers.
This is going to stop. The tea party types will be kicked to the curb after the shit they pulled the past two years and the money will stop flowing. They can make their own political body and stop leeching off the base. The whole thing was an effort to reinvigorate an aging base and attract a different voting block, unfortunately it has completely backfired in the worst way and ended up severely damaging the republican image and message. There are many liberal positions I'm unhappy with in this country but the sort of political gridlock we've been forced to endure is not good for anyone, something will be done.
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 10:35:
bunch of nonsense
1. They Fund Crazies. Soros isn't funding the Communist party. If he did, we'd be hearing about it, constantly. The tea party is the right wing equivalent. Also, Soros didn't fund candidates, but the right funded some crazy candidacies: Adelson funded Gingrich's candidacy, and Friess funded Santorum (don't Google that ). Both of those guys are nuts who never would have been viable if not for billionaire backers.
Verno wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 10:11:
It is hard to believe there is someone out there with so little self awareness to realize what a mockery they are making of themselves. The Obama phone thing is an example you've been throwing around for months now, not a joke at all and you got brutally hoist on your own petard. No one is going to buy the joke bit, its not only immature but its worse than actually having just meant it and been wrong, especially in the light that you've been harping about it for ages. No one cares about the message when it's presented so poorly and you don't swing people to your point of view with dishonesty, arguments that lack a foundation and soundbites.
It would be nice to have a political discussion where you haven't muddied the waters and made it more difficult to represent some conservative views.
Verno wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 09:37:
The eye rolling thing here is you getting completely nailed on just about every subject and trying to continually shift the discussion afterward. Case in point, you still haven't acknowledged what was either a mistake or outright dishonesty. A polite acknowledgement and admission would mean people are less likely to hang it over your head but now that's going to follow you around in every thread.
I don't know if you're truly this ignorant or just posturing for the last word but you are not only making yourself look bad but all other Conservatives by association.
Verno wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 08:47:
You can't get mad at them, you totally misrepresented something and got nailed on it. There is no dancing around it, my 5 year old knows better than to pull that crap. You want to push your agenda then at least own it when you screw up.