Dagnamit wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 10:11:
It's the monitor resolution numbers that are the most interesting. only 33% at 1080 seems shocking to me.

//2048 x 1152! woot!

19" LCD 1280x1024, baby!

Kitkoan wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 20:59:
As you said, it's all anecdotal, just you talking out your ass.

Many Linux projects have been very profitable. Red Hat comes to mind as they also give away Fedora which never killed them. Humble Bundle has shown time and time and time again that Linux users have no problems with paying or not having source code. Also, piracy is a problem on ALL OS's so to claim it on one group shows your talking out your ass. You want to talk out your ass and claim its somehow fact, even though facts like the Humble Bundle, Red Hat, and even SUSE (before Novell bought them).

And trying to claim to ignore support options for money is a crap excuse. You seriously don't think any business doesn't get/expect help from Microsoft or Apple when they buy their products? Support is a part of the price. If so, you have never been in any real computer company (and you're talking out your ass on that one too).

But wait, Primalchrome, continue your NERD RAGE TROLLING!!!!

>sigh< Humble Bundle? Really? Red Hat, SUSE, and a number of other corporate packages have been successful....but even that really doesn't have anything to do with the consumer or gaming. Corporate support from Microsoft and Apple products does not come free and is a different revenue stream than the profits made from the products/software themselves. Feel free to call right now reporting that your System Attendant service won't start for Exchange 2010....the first thing they'll ask for is your Technet subscription, Solution Provider information, or a credit card....

While I'm pleased we can agree that my observations/experience are just a drop in the bucket, the fact remains that gaming and Linux on the desktop is a marginal market at best and shows no real promise for large scale profitability or growth unless something like the Steam Console becomes provides a vehicle for that success. That will entail DRM and very specific libraries....both of which can be a major point of contention when you put that in front of the market you believe to be viable. If you can name a single AAA title that came out in any kind of exclusive release for Linux, then maybe I'm wrong.

At the end of the day, you've simply turned personal attacks and trolling rather than offering any solid examples pertaining to the subject of gaming on Linux. All you've proven is that you're making vain attempts to get a rise out of me about a topic that, quite frankly, is a sad joke. The only reason that I've spent the time replying is that I'm bored while cooking dinner....and I've been waiting to go pick up my kid from practice. It's been fun, and be pleased that you have been successful in one light... Your comments in other articles about supporting gaming on Android by using an emulator with pirated ROMs has simply given weight to my assertions.

Primalchrome wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 20:37:

Kitkoan wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 20:27:
Wow, the nerd rage I can feel just pouring out of you.

You still are ignoring your comments though. You claimed about Linux users being pirates, yada yada yada. Now you're trying to re-write what you said claiming that they want software to be free. Again with the subject change. So... any chance you'll stay on one subject? (looks back at your posts) Doubt it...

Free software and software piracy are completely different subject, but it seems to be a confusing concept for you.

I'll let you continue trolling out your ass though, it's ok. Let out that nerd rage.

Laugh. I'm trolling/raging? Not in the least. You asked me to explain and I did. I'll TLDR it for you...
"Oh sure, they spout the whole 'free as in beer' and 'piracy isn't stealing' mantras very well.... But at the end of the day, just about every single one felt they deserved it for free." IE, they were entitled to it...and so they felt their piracy was justified.

I apologize that I can't really make it much simpler than that. >shrug<

As you said, it's all anecdotal, just you talking out your ass.

Many Linux projects have been very profitable. Red Hat comes to mind as they also give away Fedora which never killed them. Humble Bundle has shown time and time and time again that Linux users have no problems with paying or not having source code. Also, piracy is a problem on ALL OS's so to claim it on one group shows your talking out your ass. You want to talk out your ass and claim its somehow fact, even though facts like the Humble Bundle, Red Hat, and even SUSE (before Novell bought them).

And trying to claim to ignore support options for money is a crap excuse. You seriously don't think any business doesn't get/expect help from Microsoft or Apple when they buy their products? Support is a part of the price. If so, you have never been in any real computer company (and you're talking out your ass on that one too).

But wait, Primalchrome, continue your NERD RAGE TROLLING!!!!

Kitkoan wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 20:27:
Wow, the nerd rage I can feel just pouring out of you.

You still are ignoring your comments though. You claimed about Linux users being pirates, yada yada yada. Now you're trying to re-write what you said claiming that they want software to be free. Again with the subject change. So... any chance you'll stay on one subject? (looks back at your posts) Doubt it...

Free software and software piracy are completely different subject, but it seems to be a confusing concept for you.

I'll let you continue trolling out your ass though, it's ok. Let out that nerd rage.

Laugh. I'm trolling/raging? Not in the least. You asked me to explain and I did. I'll TLDR it for you...
"Oh sure, they spout the whole 'free as in beer' and 'piracy isn't stealing' mantras very well.... But at the end of the day, just about every single one felt they deserved it for free." IE, they were entitled to it...and so they felt their piracy was justified.

I apologize that I can't really make it much simpler than that. >shrug<

Primalchrome wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 20:19:

Kitkoan wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 19:26:
That really is a neat trick how you talk out your ass.

First it's mostly about claiming that Linux users are pirates and when you responded, you mentioned nothing about it.

I wonder, what's next out your ass? Aside from the obvious subject change.

Oh, it wasn't an intentional subject change....I simply didn't address the one item that apparently made you defensive. Sure, would be happy to address the sense of entitlement that pervades Linux fanbois. It's anecdotal, I agree. But I've been working in IT since the same time Torvalds released the first kernel. I've worked in admin jobs and in development companies. I've known a lot of geeks and a fair percentage of those that used Linux....so with real live, BBSes, newsgroups, and such it's not a bad cross section. With the exception of only a couple....most of them think they're entitled to software for free and that it's a moral outrage if the source is not made available.

Oh sure, they spout the whole 'free as in beer' and 'piracy isn't stealing' mantras very well.... But at the end of the day, just about every single one felt they deserved it for free. Oh...and without ads. Oh, and you'd better not share my information or browsing habits. Oh, and why the fuck can't you fix this bug that causes an artifact on level 23 of the game...if you really cared, you'd share the source adn I would have already fixed it for you!

That being said, every single one of those guys were very intelligent. Most of them were really good guys all around....and probably half involved in an OSS project on a semi-regular basis. Just because there was an overwhelming mindset doesn't mean I'm bagging on them. I still hang with some of them for social occasions. But that mindset causes repercussions, whether you want to recognize them or not.

Like I said...it's purely anecdotal. But at the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding. Just about every successful commercial venture on Linux that is not niche is driven by a group of brilliant individuals that found a real need that could be serviced....and just about every one of those groups co-oped open source to make that happen. Many of those companies have to make their profits off service or support agreements because of the pervading 'free as in beer' or 'geek elite' mindset of their target userbase.

And for that reason, there is no Exchange analog for Linux. Linux isn't on a significant number of end user desktops. ...and gaming on Linux is only being pushed by visionaries like Carmack or Newell. One is a true believer. One sees a way to cut costs on R&D for a console.

Wow, the nerd rage I can feel just pouring out of you.

You still are ignoring your comments though. You claimed about Linux users being pirates, yada yada yada. Now you're trying to re-write what you said claiming that they want software to be free. Again with the subject change. So... any chance you'll stay on one subject? (looks back at your posts) Doubt it...

Free software and software piracy are completely different subject, but it seems to be a confusing concept for you.

I'll let you continue trolling out your ass though, it's ok. Let out that nerd rage.

Kitkoan wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 19:26:
That really is a neat trick how you talk out your ass.

First it's mostly about claiming that Linux users are pirates and when you responded, you mentioned nothing about it.

I wonder, what's next out your ass? Aside from the obvious subject change.

Oh, it wasn't an intentional subject change....I simply didn't address the one item that apparently made you defensive. Sure, would be happy to address the sense of entitlement that pervades Linux fanbois. It's anecdotal, I agree. But I've been working in IT since the same time Torvalds released the first kernel. I've worked in admin jobs and in development companies. I've known a lot of geeks and a fair percentage of those that used Linux....so with real live, BBSes, newsgroups, and such it's not a bad cross section. With the exception of only a couple....most of them think they're entitled to software for free and that it's a moral outrage if the source is not made available.

Oh sure, they spout the whole 'free as in beer' and 'piracy isn't stealing' mantras very well.... But at the end of the day, just about every single one felt they deserved it for free. Oh...and without ads. Oh, and you'd better not share my information or browsing habits. Oh, and why the fuck can't you fix this bug that causes an artifact on level 23 of the game...if you really cared, you'd share the source adn I would have already fixed it for you!

That being said, every single one of those guys were very intelligent. Most of them were really good guys all around....and probably half involved in an OSS project on a semi-regular basis. Just because there was an overwhelming mindset doesn't mean I'm bagging on them. I still hang with some of them for social occasions. But that mindset causes repercussions, whether you want to recognize them or not.

Like I said...it's purely anecdotal. But at the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding. Just about every successful commercial venture on Linux that is not niche is driven by a group of brilliant individuals that found a real need that could be serviced....and just about every one of those groups co-oped open source to make that happen. Many of those companies have to make their profits off service or support agreements because of the pervading 'free as in beer' or 'geek elite' mindset of their target userbase.

And for that reason, there is no Exchange analog for Linux. Linux isn't on a significant number of end user desktops. ...and gaming on Linux is only being pushed by visionaries like Carmack or Newell. One is a true believer. One sees a way to cut costs on R&D for a console.

Beamer wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 19:57:

Kitkoan wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 19:26:

Primalchrome wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 17:12:

Beelzebud wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 16:07:
That's a neat trick being able to talk out of your ass like that.

Man, how I wish I were. Linux has served me well in a server capacity for very basic file server, web server, PHP app server, FTP server, automated scripting server....but beyond that it's a mess of bandit kingdoms. If the community and one distro would deflate their geek peens we could see real traction. Ubuntu has tried going there....Dell tried going there.... And what do they get? The hardcore RMS fanbois howling like rabid children from Lord of the Flies. Hell, I thought OSX was finally going to bring *NIX to the desktop in a meaningful way....but forgot about Apple's 'style over substance' business model. I've been hearing about the year of Linux on the desktop since around '98....and nothing so far.

It's great for devs. It's great for geeks. It's great if you lock it down and give it to grandma who only knows to click on the pretty icon to surf the interwebs for her email and cross stich... But for Joe Average? For the most part you need a non-production desktop UI to simplify it to almost a device, tablet, or Win8 interface (shudder).

That really is a neat trick how you talk out your ass.

First it's mostly about claiming that Linux users are pirates and when you responded, you mentioned nothing about it.

I wonder, what's next out your ass? Aside from the obvious subject change.

I really don't think that's what he meant by "bandit kingdoms." I thought he meant distros/tools, not users.

No, but in his first post he stated "Every Linux-primary desktop user I know feels like he's entitled to pirate all software. It's a personal affront if they have to pay for it." kinda gave that impression.

Kitkoan wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 19:26:

Primalchrome wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 17:12:

Beelzebud wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 16:07:
That's a neat trick being able to talk out of your ass like that.

Man, how I wish I were. Linux has served me well in a server capacity for very basic file server, web server, PHP app server, FTP server, automated scripting server....but beyond that it's a mess of bandit kingdoms. If the community and one distro would deflate their geek peens we could see real traction. Ubuntu has tried going there....Dell tried going there.... And what do they get? The hardcore RMS fanbois howling like rabid children from Lord of the Flies. Hell, I thought OSX was finally going to bring *NIX to the desktop in a meaningful way....but forgot about Apple's 'style over substance' business model. I've been hearing about the year of Linux on the desktop since around '98....and nothing so far.

It's great for devs. It's great for geeks. It's great if you lock it down and give it to grandma who only knows to click on the pretty icon to surf the interwebs for her email and cross stich... But for Joe Average? For the most part you need a non-production desktop UI to simplify it to almost a device, tablet, or Win8 interface (shudder).

That really is a neat trick how you talk out your ass.

First it's mostly about claiming that Linux users are pirates and when you responded, you mentioned nothing about it.

I wonder, what's next out your ass? Aside from the obvious subject change.

I really don't think that's what he meant by "bandit kingdoms." I thought he meant distros/tools, not users.

I think one of the biggest problems is (and why I still use Windows for Steam much more then Linux) is there are too many crappy Windows ports still.

To many games are just quick and dirty ports that perform poorly on Linux because the developers just wrapped it in a WINE front end and didn't bother trying to make it work well on Linux.

The same reason people don't buy a lot of games that are on console, because they are horrible ports that take a LOT more power to do anything decent. Except with this, people can see the difference since the hardware is the exact same (and its easy to tell it's a WINE port when you leave DirectX comments/options in the game).

Panickd wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 17:01:
2.34% of people are operating Steam on a 56k network speed, aka dial-up? How? And WTF? And 1.56% has 7GB of RAM? Seems kind of a left field amount for so many people.

8GB of RAM with some portion dedicated to integrated graphics.

Primalchrome wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 17:12:

Beelzebud wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 16:07:
That's a neat trick being able to talk out of your ass like that.

Man, how I wish I were. Linux has served me well in a server capacity for very basic file server, web server, PHP app server, FTP server, automated scripting server....but beyond that it's a mess of bandit kingdoms. If the community and one distro would deflate their geek peens we could see real traction. Ubuntu has tried going there....Dell tried going there.... And what do they get? The hardcore RMS fanbois howling like rabid children from Lord of the Flies. Hell, I thought OSX was finally going to bring *NIX to the desktop in a meaningful way....but forgot about Apple's 'style over substance' business model. I've been hearing about the year of Linux on the desktop since around '98....and nothing so far.

It's great for devs. It's great for geeks. It's great if you lock it down and give it to grandma who only knows to click on the pretty icon to surf the interwebs for her email and cross stich... But for Joe Average? For the most part you need a non-production desktop UI to simplify it to almost a device, tablet, or Win8 interface (shudder).

That really is a neat trick how you talk out your ass.

First it's mostly about claiming that Linux users are pirates and when you responded, you mentioned nothing about it.

I wonder, what's next out your ass? Aside from the obvious subject change.

Dagnamit wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 10:11:
It's the monitor resolution numbers that are the most interesting. only 33% at 1080 seems shocking to me.

Judging by the other specs it's because of a high number of laptops being part of the system pool checked.

Beelzebud wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 16:07:
That's a neat trick being able to talk out of your ass like that.

Man, how I wish I were. Linux has served me well in a server capacity for very basic file server, web server, PHP app server, FTP server, automated scripting server....but beyond that it's a mess of bandit kingdoms. If the community and one distro would deflate their geek peens we could see real traction. Ubuntu has tried going there....Dell tried going there.... And what do they get? The hardcore RMS fanbois howling like rabid children from Lord of the Flies. Hell, I thought OSX was finally going to bring *NIX to the desktop in a meaningful way....but forgot about Apple's 'style over substance' business model. I've been hearing about the year of Linux on the desktop since around '98....and nothing so far.

It's great for devs. It's great for geeks. It's great if you lock it down and give it to grandma who only knows to click on the pretty icon to surf the interwebs for her email and cross stich... But for Joe Average? For the most part you need a non-production desktop UI to simplify it to almost a device, tablet, or Win8 interface (shudder).

2.34% of people are operating Steam on a 56k network speed, aka dial-up? How? And WTF? And 1.56% has 7GB of RAM? Seems kind of a left field amount for so many people.

Primalchrome wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 11:46:
Laugh. And Linux users still wonder why few companies want to make non-specialized software for the platform. Too much forking. Too many distros. No homogenized environment. Every Linux-primary desktop user I know feels like he's entitled to pirate all software. It's a personal affront if they have to pay for it.

That's a neat trick being able to talk out of your ass like that.

Creston wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 14:20:

Dagnamit wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 10:11:
//2048 x 1152! woot!

What the fuck kinda voodoo-ass resolution is that??

I think it's technical name is a WXGANXVGAhd display.

Dagnamit wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 10:11:
//2048 x 1152! woot!

What the fuck kinda voodoo-ass resolution is that??

Trashy wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 12:55:

yuastnav wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 09:50:
Well I would use Steam on my Linux machine if it wouldn't be Ubuntu only and if Valve didn't insist on infesting my source.list with some black box repositories that could contain ANYTHING.
Yes, yes, bla, bla, entitled Linux user. I don't care.

And yes, I still use Steam on my Windows machine EXTENSIVELY but that's because I couldn't give a damn who's spying on that machine and whether draconian DRM is deeply nested within the bowels of the system. It's unsuitable for serious work for me.
Though it doesn't mean I like that.

I have it running fine on Fedora 17.. It can in fact run on many distributions..

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Steam_under_Linux

Yes I'm the .93%

Thanks for the link Crow but the thing is... I mean, installing a .deb package for Ubuntu under Debian wouldn't be that much of a hassle but still don't want to install any 3rd party closed-source packages into my repository. That is the main problem I have with Steam under Linux. :/
Just let me make a user specifically for that, with the least permissions possible and give me a tar package or something.
Or do it like Desura does, in a non-intrusive way.

yuastnav wrote on Sep 4, 2013, 09:50:
Well I would use Steam on my Linux machine if it wouldn't be Ubuntu only and if Valve didn't insist on infesting my source.list with some black box repositories that could contain ANYTHING.
Yes, yes, bla, bla, entitled Linux user. I don't care.

And yes, I still use Steam on my Windows machine EXTENSIVELY but that's because I couldn't give a damn who's spying on that machine and whether draconian DRM is deeply nested within the bowels of the system. It's unsuitable for serious work for me.
Though it doesn't mean I like that.

I have it running fine on Fedora 17.. It can in fact run on many distributions..

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Steam_under_Linux

Yes I'm the .93%

Steam works great on my machine running Fedora 19 x86_64. Seems like every day there is new games popping up on Steam for Linux that I purchased on Steam for Windows.

I dual boot Fedora and Win 7, and only boot into Windows to play games. I use Fedora for everything else. Maybe soon, especially at the rate games keep popping up in Steam for Linux, I won't have to bother booting Windows anymore.

I do think there is a bug though, as I have never seen the Steam Hardware Survey appear on Linux.