Flatline wrote on Aug 5, 2013, 13:28:

JoeNapalm wrote on Aug 5, 2013, 09:04:

Sho wrote on Aug 4, 2013, 14:46:
D
About six hours in now, still having a blast. Yes, it's a bit on the casual side, but that's exactly what I need to relax inbetween shifts right now.

Yeah, I'm sure it's tough with no other casual games out there...just all those lovingly detailed re-creations of complex PnP RPGs.



Am I the only one who was disappointed by the depth of this game? It's more like a really good iPad game. I think that's part of why the campaign is so short...it is just long enough for you to wish there were more, but not so long as you get bored.


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

No, no I'm not upset at the depth of the game, because half the product I bought was an editor system to create new content, and people are going fucking gangbusters on it.

Bitching that this game is shallow is right around bitching that Minecraft doesn't have enough story-driven content. Okay to be fair it's more like bitching that the original Neverwinter Nights campaign was lackluster- that sort of wasn't the point.

Come back in six months when there's a few thousand more modules to play. And in 2-3 months we're getting *another* official campaign/setting for free (if you kickstarted) that has a supposedly more open-ended campaign to it.

I seriously gotta wonder what you expect for 25 bucks and a million dollar budget.

Comparing what is basically Gangsters: City of Omerta plus elves with Minecraft is a great example. HBS had a million dollar budget off Kickstarter, and I paid 3.5x as much for SR.

If you think that SR had the depth of Minecraft, you must have gotten more out of this engine than I did. Yes, the campaign was well written and the art was good.

But I burned through this in 15hrs, taking my time, with an Ork who only spent Karma on Quickness / Ranged Combat / Assault Rifles / Dodge. Did I have fun? Yes.

But it is shallow.

I got hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of the $10 I dropped on Minecraft, because of the depth of the game, and it was done by one dude with NO budget.

Now, it's apples and oranges, but I'm using the example YOU picked.

SR isn't a bad game. It's just not very deep. Maybe the modders will gin it up into an honest-to-bog Shadowrun4 emulator, but that's likely years down the road.

If this were a $6 iPad game, I'd be tickled pink. As a PC RPG, I felt it was entertaining but lacked depth to warrant more than the 15hrs I put into it.

If the engine has the flexibility for someone to mod it into something vastly more detailed, an approximation of actual Shadowrun, or even XCOM or Jagged Alliance, then I'll be thrilled, but as a finished product it is not very deep.


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

Flatline wrote on Aug 5, 2013, 13:37:

Creston wrote on Aug 4, 2013, 22:07:
I have to say, that 100 hour campaign looks absolutely awesome. Basically they're taking every PnP Shadowrun module ever built, and are turning it into one massive campaign.

I honestly doubt they'll ever finish it (though so far a ton of people have signed up to work on it), but IF they ever do, it might genuinely be the most incredible RPG game we'll have ever played. Some of those modules were absolutely fantastic (I especially loved the ones surrounding Dunkelzahn's election and subsequent suicide.)

Creston

Moreso than that I'd like to see someone mod in an equipment resource pack (maybe I'll break out the books and do it myself) defining a lot more equipment/cyberware/etc to bring it closer to the PnP games.

It's being worked on. There were some difficulties with creating new items, but that's apparently been worked out, so I'm sure we'll see tons more stuff soon.

I agree though that I really want to see more stuff. Not being able to get a Panther Assault cannon with my Troll streetsam was really disappointing. 18D damage baby!

I have to say that I was pretty disappointed at how underpowered cyberware and magic were in the game. Wired reflexes gives 1 point of extra fucking movement? WTF?

I'm sure someone will mod that back to normal soon.

Creston wrote on Aug 4, 2013, 22:07:
I have to say, that 100 hour campaign looks absolutely awesome. Basically they're taking every PnP Shadowrun module ever built, and are turning it into one massive campaign.

I honestly doubt they'll ever finish it (though so far a ton of people have signed up to work on it), but IF they ever do, it might genuinely be the most incredible RPG game we'll have ever played. Some of those modules were absolutely fantastic (I especially loved the ones surrounding Dunkelzahn's election and subsequent suicide.)

Creston

Moreso than that I'd like to see someone mod in an equipment resource pack (maybe I'll break out the books and do it myself) defining a lot more equipment/cyberware/etc to bring it closer to the PnP games.

JoeNapalm wrote on Aug 5, 2013, 09:04:

Sho wrote on Aug 4, 2013, 14:46:
D
About six hours in now, still having a blast. Yes, it's a bit on the casual side, but that's exactly what I need to relax inbetween shifts right now.

Yeah, I'm sure it's tough with no other casual games out there...just all those lovingly detailed re-creations of complex PnP RPGs.



Am I the only one who was disappointed by the depth of this game? It's more like a really good iPad game. I think that's part of why the campaign is so short...it is just long enough for you to wish there were more, but not so long as you get bored.


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

No, no I'm not upset at the depth of the game, because half the product I bought was an editor system to create new content, and people are going fucking gangbusters on it.

Bitching that this game is shallow is right around bitching that Minecraft doesn't have enough story-driven content. Okay to be fair it's more like bitching that the original Neverwinter Nights campaign was lackluster- that sort of wasn't the point.

Come back in six months when there's a few thousand more modules to play. And in 2-3 months we're getting *another* official campaign/setting for free (if you kickstarted) that has a supposedly more open-ended campaign to it.

I seriously gotta wonder what you expect for 25 bucks and a million dollar budget.

Sho wrote on Aug 4, 2013, 14:46:
D
About six hours in now, still having a blast. Yes, it's a bit on the casual side, but that's exactly what I need to relax inbetween shifts right now.

Yeah, I'm sure it's tough with no other casual games out there...just all those lovingly detailed re-creations of complex PnP RPGs.



Am I the only one who was disappointed by the depth of this game? It's more like a really good iPad game. I think that's part of why the campaign is so short...it is just long enough for you to wish there were more, but not so long as you get bored.


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

Worry not, smart modders already figured out a way to code a "save anywhere" system that works flawlessly just with Scripts and Triggers in the Editor. At least for fan-made modules that is, since you can't edit Dead Man Switch, you can only view it. Maybe HBS implements it for their Berlin campaign.

Either way, the Life on a Limb thing looks extremely interesting.

There is a steam guide for that so you could implement your own save anywhere system in your own module if you wanted.

This comment was edited on Aug 5, 2013, 09:03.

yeah the Save-system is a sad state, I worry about playing it incase I need to stop and do something else or if I run out of time and need to go to bed or something. I realize save-scumming sucks. But as mentioned if it saves on every level transition maybe life in the main game would have been better. Love it otherwise, its really good even if it lacks an open world.

Anonymous wrote on Aug 4, 2013, 23:27:
Thanks Creston! I didn't know you could use the alarm reduction program before an alert goes off.

Also, I have tried using two deckers from the CEO's computer and couldn't do it.

Yeah, I forgot that thing only has one jack-in port. The first time I ran it, I did it with Dodger, and she had no trouble getting through the whole thing before the alarm went off. (and this was back when I didn't realize you could just do normal attacks in the Matrix, and I was constantly waiting multiple turns for my attack programs to cool down.)

If nothing else works, just let your ESPs fight the deckers (note that its attack program has a "tar" functionality which freezes stuff in place for 2 rounds) while you run like hell for the exit.

nin wrote on Aug 4, 2013, 22:35:
Which one is that? I've seen the team working on the SNES one...

Thanks!

Shadowrun Identity

saluk wrote on Aug 4, 2013, 22:40:
The save system still kind of sucks... But in the snes remake mod you basically get a free autosave on every map transition, so the lack of a proper save can be easily worked around. Almost every limitation in the engine looks like it can be worked around in mods, which is a great sign.

When are they going to fix that anyway? Having to replay 30 minutes of content because of a lucky shot that killed me just destroys any kind of immersion / fun I have. I only keep going back to it because it's an awesome game otherwise - manual saving would sure be nice though.

Thanks Creston! I didn't know you could use the alarm reduction program before an alert goes off.

Also, I have tried using two deckers from the CEO's computer and couldn't do it.

The save system still kind of sucks... But in the snes remake mod you basically get a free autosave on every map transition, so the lack of a proper save can be easily worked around. Almost every limitation in the engine looks like it can be worked around in mods, which is a great sign.

Creston wrote on Aug 4, 2013, 22:07:
I have to say, that 100 hour campaign looks absolutely awesome. Basically they're taking every PnP Shadowrun module ever built, and are turning it into one massive campaign.

I honestly doubt they'll ever finish it (though so far a ton of people have signed up to work on it), but IF they ever do, it might genuinely be the most incredible RPG game we'll have ever played. Some of those modules were absolutely fantastic (I especially loved the ones surrounding Dunkelzahn's election and subsequent suicide.)

Creston

Which one is that? I've seen the team working on the SNES one...

Thanks!

I have to say, that 100 hour campaign looks absolutely awesome. Basically they're taking every PnP Shadowrun module ever built, and are turning it into one massive campaign.

I honestly doubt they'll ever finish it (though so far a ton of people have signed up to work on it), but IF they ever do, it might genuinely be the most incredible RPG game we'll have ever played. Some of those modules were absolutely fantastic (I especially loved the ones surrounding Dunkelzahn's election and subsequent suicide.)

Creston

Just picked this up last night (thanks trading card buyers), and I'm loving it. Right from the start I was into it. Lately when I get a game, I play it for 1/2 hour to an hour, think, ok, that's cool, then do something else for a while. But last night, after about 4 hours or so, I made myself stop so I could actually get to bed.

Looking forward to what the community will give us too.

If you die in the Matrix, that only hurts your decker. You can just heal up and dive back in. Once you dispose of the black ICE and two deckers, they won't respawn. In fact, none of the enemies will respawn so you don't lose any progress.

Anonymous wrote on Aug 4, 2013, 15:11:
Woe is me I cannot complete the Telestrian Industries level from the CEO's Matrix LAN! The damned alert goes off and the deckers own me!

I even tried a trainer but it didn't work. Neither version worked.

Bring two deckers with the "lower alarm" program. If they run it every time it's cooled down, you should easily be able to get in and out before the alarm goes off. Two deckers plus ESPs, for that matter, should easily be able to handle those deckers.

Alternatively, have two mages who keep casting heal on your decker (tougher to pull off due to the 3:1 round discrepancy.)

Or, finally, bring a good decker. My decker/rigger absolutely destroyed that entire matrix section by herself. Even the black ICE and the two deckers did nothing. (Hard to damage a decker with Int 9 who has a Fairlight Excalibur. )


Btw, pro-tip for that level, you can deck in and immediately deck out, and let your decker help with the incoming guards, defeat all of them, then deck back in at your leisure. While it's more thrilling to do both things simultaneously, I was unable to do so as my decker was also the rigger controlling my two Class S drones. (which, btw, kick so much fucking ass it's insane.)

Creston

Woe is me I cannot complete the Telestrian Industries level from the CEO's Matrix LAN! The damned alert goes off and the deckers own me!

I even tried a trainer but it didn't work. Neither version worked.

Living in the city for close to three decades now and having requested a visit to Berlin's Naturkundemuseum just about every birthday as a young boy, that's a nice take on it in that screenshot. It would be even neater if they had featured the iconic Giraffatitan/Brachiosaurus skeleton instead, but I am sympathetic to the challenge of fitting a two-story high dinosaur into their tileset.

About six hours in now, still having a blast. Yes, it's a bit on the casual side, but that's exactly what I need to relax inbetween shifts right now.

This comment was edited on Aug 4, 2013, 14:52.

OK, I sent that in Friday...