Reposted from the OOTB....

You know, I wouldn't have to repeat myself all the time if you people paid attention. What Sony said was self-applied. Everything they stated was very carefully crafted and constructed. There were no broad and sweeping statements. Certainly nothing that could be held against them legally.

1) They said the same thing as MS as it applies to their games you can trade them without fees, let friends play them, etc. They did NOT say bupkiss about what publishers may or may not do.

2) Note they did not state that for multiplayer games you now have to pay for it same as MS Gold. How do you think that would have went over at their press conference.

3) They say you don't need to login once every 24 hours? What about beyond that? They also said nothing about advertising, data mining, etc.

So in fact there's a whole bunch of shit they haven't said that they can still do to give it to the consumer sans lube. So yes, until you see EVERYTHING in black and white, the final costs, etc. etc. etc. I wouldn't be patting Sony on the back just yet. And the fact that they've snuck a few things in and are still so evasive flashes a big red WARNING!!! sign IMO. Just wait until the other shoe drops. There will be more shit coming down the pipe with this, bank on it.

Edit: Take off the MS hate glasses a second and pay ATTENTION to what they are and are NOT saying specifically. Jesus, read between the lines.

Beamer wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 14:14:
Wait, I'm not following this closely, but is Cutter kind of right? I mean, publishers can still enforce DRM on the PS4 to limit used games, according to what I'm reading.

That sounds like spin. No he's not right and publishers can already do whatever they want with DRM on the Xbox 360 and PS3. This just means we see more online games which is the direction the industry was going anyway and at least this way I can play a single player game without Microsoft needing to stick its finger up my ass to take my temperature.

Sonys approach is the logical extension of the current generation where retail is still too important and digital needs to be sorted out better than 'git ur ass online or no games at all'.

Mr. Tact wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 12:21:
A good Final Fantasy game

I see what the problem is.

Wait, I'm not following this closely, but is Cutter kind of right? I mean, publishers can still enforce DRM on the PS4 to limit used games, according to what I'm reading.

So... this could backfire on them, but they have a LOT of room for backfires, given that the IGN poll has them leading for "winning" by a 70 point margin.

In the long run, I don't think anyone will use these DRM features, or that many will. At least in the first 3 years of the lifespan. It will be a creeping feature, to the point that I'm surprised it wasn't rolled out later rather than being trumpeted now.

avianflu wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 13:53:
Ack -- Verno **functionally** for the console gamer that is a hair of a difference you are making. SONY is just offloading DRM to the publishers. I am usually in agreement with you, but not so much on this one!

I guess we'll see what the major game pubs do.

Err the difference is that you cannot play any games if you don't connect the Adbox to the internet once every 24 hours, full stop no workie etc. You can play any singleplayer games you want regardless of connection or subscription state on the PS4. You can play used games, loaned games, rented games, whatever.

Sure EA will be cocks and cook up something like online passes or underpinning online functionality into otherwise SP games but that's no different than what we have now, you just don't buy their games. At least Sony is giving you a choice here, with Microsoft you have none and in fact a set of restrictive licensing and a real downgrade in ownership. There is absolutely a major difference in both philosophy and application here.

On a different note, the Nintendo conference isn't getting much attention BTW but its fucking great so far, that new Mario game looks awesome and Xenoblade 2 looks fucking epic.

Cutter wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 11:35:
Sony is still being evasive. Everything they stated was about them. They didn't say if publishers would permit trades/resales. So their policy is the same as the Failbox until they specify otherwise. And ok so I don't have to go online once every 24 hours to check in with big brother, what about every 25 hours? What if I never want to connect it to the internet at all? Seems that Sony snuck in that you now need a PS+ subscription for online play. So what else aren't they saying?

Jesus, Cutter. I think you need meds. You are the single most negative person I have ever read online, and that's saying something.

Ack -- Verno **functionally** for the console gamer that is a hair of a difference you are making. SONY is just offloading DRM to the publishers. I am usually in agreement with you, but not so much on this one!

I guess we'll see what the major game pubs do.

No big deal. At least with that subscription you get free games every month.
Guess Microsoft is going to follow that formula now too. Too little too late

SpectralMeat wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 13:44:

FU wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 13:41:

DG wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 13:29:
So much love for Sony just because all they did is start charging for multiplayer?

Exactly

Is that even confirmed that you will need PSN+ for multiplayer?
Could it be that it is only for used games maybe?
For some reason I thought they said last night you will not need to pay subscription fee for MP games.

It's for mp only. Single player never has to be connected to the Internet from what I gather . Just being retarded

SpectralMeat wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 13:44:

FU wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 13:41:

DG wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 13:29:
So much love for Sony just because all they did is start charging for multiplayer?

Exactly

Is that even confirmed that you will need PSN+ for multiplayer?
Could it be that it is only for used games maybe?
For some reason I thought they said last night you will not need to pay subscription fee for MP games.

Multiplayer is only available on PS4 to PS+ subscribers. Every news source is confirming that,

Darks wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 13:44:
In all seriousness Verno, I wish that were true, but M$ has been flat out not listening to the concerns and screams of customers for a very long time now. They somehow feel or think they are invincible, and their stance on backwards compatibility and many other aspects are all a part of that attitude. I mean, look at the Win 8 fiasco with the Start Menu being gone. During Beta people screamed and begged that they add it back. What did we get? Nothing!

I personally hope they crash a hard death if that is what it takes to get them to stop being assholes about their business practices

I don't disagree with you, I think Microsoft has been arrogant, obstinate and way too comfortable with its monetization first, serving the customer second strategy. I do hope that this will be a wake up call though. If they just try to drown Sony in marketing then we'll have our answer. For a long time Microsoft has been like a spoiled child, just pushing the envelope and seeing what it can get away with. That's going to continue until the market pushes back. Either way I'm throwing my money at the company who actually listened to what I want and made their business strategy work around it.

Verno wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 13:36:

DG wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 13:29:
I don't get why people are so happy and excited that MS messed up so badly. This is not a good thing for gamers. Like Intel fanboys being smug about AMD's lacklustre chips then wondering why the Intel prices are high and performance increments so little each release. So much love for Sony just because all they did is start charging for multiplayer?

Err I don't follow your logic, of course this is good for gamers. Microsoft is too big to be forced out of the market, they will have to respond somehow and it's becoming clear that they need to give people what they want, not just what they think they can give them. This can only be good for the consumer in the long run, this is actual competition at work.

In all seriousness Verno, I wish that were true, but M$ has been flat out not listening to the concerns and screams of customers for a very long time now. They somehow feel or think they are invincible, and their stance on backwards compatibility and many other aspects are all a part of that attitude. I mean, look at the Win 8 fiasco with the Start Menu being gone. During Beta people screamed and begged that they add it back. What did we get? Nothing!

I personally hope they crash a hard death if that is what it takes to get them to stop being assholes about their business practices.

FU wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 13:41:

DG wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 13:29:
So much love for Sony just because all they did is start charging for multiplayer?

Exactly

Is that even confirmed that you will need PSN+ for multiplayer?
Could it be that it is only for used games maybe?
For some reason I thought they said last night you will not need to pay subscription fee for MP games.

DG wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 13:29:
So much love for Sony just because all they did is start charging for multiplayer?

Exactly

Kingdom Hearts 3 also announced for Xbox One.

DG wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 13:29:
I don't get why people are so happy and excited that MS messed up so badly. This is not a good thing for gamers. Like Intel fanboys being smug about AMD's lacklustre chips then wondering why the Intel prices are high and performance increments so little each release. So much love for Sony just because all they did is start charging for multiplayer?

Err I don't follow your logic, of course this is good for gamers. Microsoft is too big to be forced out of the market, they will have to respond somehow and it's becoming clear that they need to give people what they want, not just what they think they can give them. This can only be good for the consumer in the long run, this is actual competition at work.

I have a 360 and about half a dozen games but have never had any loyalty, I switched Sega/Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft every generation (and skipped one entirely). Looking like this time it will be Sony, if anything.

Shame they added the usual margin to the USD to GBP conversion, after allowing for UK sales tax the price should be £307. Round down to £299 and I'd be pre-ordering, I've been considering getting something that will put bluray, iplayer etc etc onto the living room tv so getting a quality one that also plays games for that price would have been easy. There's a psychological barrier at £345 though.

I don't get why people are so happy and excited that MS messed up so badly. This is not a good thing for gamers. Like Intel fanboys being smug about AMD's lacklustre chips then wondering why the Intel prices are high and performance increments so little each release. So much love for Sony just because all they did is start charging for multiplayer?

Mr. Tact wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 12:21:
A good Final Fantasy game would almost be enough to prompt me to purchase my first console since SNES.... I'll be watching.

I'll admit, I squee'ed a little when I saw FF15. Let's hope Square Enix isn't dumb enough to repeat the mistakes of 13 and 14.

Creston

Dagnamit wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 10:01:
The problem that Sony might have in the long run, as online DRM models get more savvy and consumer friendly (they will), is that some big time developers will really like the control that MS is giving them. This may lead to a better selection of titles on the Xbone. I'm a pessimist for sure, but I just feel that Sony's decision here may be a short-sighted reaction to MS, and not much thought went into it. They are almost certainly selling the thing at a loss for a while. Not a great a idea for a company that typically hemorrages cash. They could have priced it at $500 with the current features and people would have called it a better deal than Xbox.

They won't. No publisher is going to cut his own market by 50-60% just because they like the DRM. And from comments literally all over the internet, it seems that the large majority of gamers are flocking to PS4.

Publishers may like the DRM, but they're not going to ignore where the money is.

It's funny, we talked about this exact scenario here on Blues like a year ago when the rumors first popped up that the new consoles might prevent used games. And it was generally agreed that they either both had to do it, or neither had to do it, because otherwise the one who did it was going to be left standing with their pants pulled down around their ankles.

How does that breeze feel, Microsoft? Nice and cool on your junk?

God, I thought after Surface and Windows 8, they couldn't POSSIBLY fuck up anything even worse, but here we go, Microsoft brings you the "WATCH TV! AND FUCK ALL YOU GAMERS!" Box.

And Steve Ballmer keeps his job.

Creston

Verno wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 13:10:
The guys from Gamespot and Giantbomb said people were going apeshit in the audience and that it felt pretty authentic. I was following it at SA and the thread reply count increased by like 3000 in a minute.

Also it was really nice to see so many hands on stage demos instead of precanned stuff. It didn't always work out well (AC4 crashed part way through for example) but it was a bit reassuring.

Getting 64 people on stage to play BF4 was unexpected.