Kajetan wrote on Feb 11, 2013, 08:38:

Jerykk wrote on Feb 10, 2013, 18:32:
I don't think it was generic at all. The hub-based level design was interesting, as was the dimensional switching. The weapon upgrade system was cool too. Wolfenstein 2009 was far more innovative than RtCW (in terms of SP).

All true. But ... it FELT generic and bland. There were several interesting features, but there was no coherent game.

I don't want any new interesting level designs etc. I want an sequel on RtCW, nothing more!

Why do they have to stretch the boundaries and mix new things into a fully functional game idea? Don't they understand that the game loses it's soul - you simply expect that some things should be in a special way. I mean, if you want to add things you have to be as good to use a completely new title.

I find it quite disturbing that there seems not to be room for old-school FPS nowadays. I do not understand it?

Personally I think that Ravens version of Wolfenstein wasn't a Wolfenstein. Okay, some of the characters have similarities, but the rest was more some kind weird version of CoD for me.

Jerykk wrote on Feb 10, 2013, 18:32:
I don't think it was generic at all. The hub-based level design was interesting, as was the dimensional switching. The weapon upgrade system was cool too. Wolfenstein 2009 was far more innovative than RtCW (in terms of SP).

All true. But ... it FELT generic and bland. There were several interesting features, but there was no coherent game.

The single-player for the last Wolfenstein game great fun but damn that multiplayer to hell. RtCW/ET was the *perfect* team based shooter that didn't have vehicles and was only matched by Team Fortress 2 six years later.

Many people waited eight years for a new Wolfenstein multiplayer and what was provided was just horrendous in too many ways to enumerate here.

Keyboard: q, e, f, g, ctrl, c, z, x, shift, tab, mouse 1, mouse 2. Total of 12 standard buttons.

You forgot the number keys and whatever keys you use to bring up maps, inventories, character sheets, etc. You even forgot Spacebar, the most used key of all! Lack of keys/buttons is definitely an issue with console games and part of the reason why RTS (or any genre that basically requires hotkeys) doesn't work on console.

That said, lack of buttons wasn't the reason why DNF, DCUO, DA2, etc, sucked. There were fundamental design issues with those games, most of which were a result of the developers trying to cater to a larger audience.

The last Wolfenstein game felt like another adequate, but generic release from Raven. In some ways, it almost felt like they pushed out a quickie Wolfenstein game with the Singularity engine while they finished working on the latter.

I don't think it was generic at all. The hub-based level design was interesting, as was the dimensional switching. The weapon upgrade system was cool too. Wolfenstein 2009 was far more innovative than RtCW (in terms of SP).

Mouse scroll doesn't really replace the ability to instantly switch to the desired weapon, nor does the 360 dpad reliably for more than 4 weapons, and opening a menu breaks immersion. That discourages making games were you can swap between more than a few weapons at a time, let alone having a bunch of skills, items, abilities, and menus instantly available across dozens of keys.

born2expire wrote on Feb 10, 2013, 12:42:

netnerd85 wrote on Feb 10, 2013, 08:56:
360 controller: 4 buttons on D pad, 2 analog buttons, 2 triggers, 2 shoulder button and 4 traditional buttons. Total of 14 buttons.

Keyboard: q, e, f, g, ctrl, c, z, x, shift, tab, mouse 1, mouse 2. Total of 12 standard buttons.

What about WASD? they are for movement. Mouse scroll is not a button either.

You missed a lot of keys in there... space (largest key on the KB, duh, mostly used as jump), r (common reload key), t, v, crtl, alt, 1-6, any extra mouse buttons, ect. And lets not forget thing likes y,u,i that are usually chat buttons, and caps lock for VIOP ect. Most game I use no less that 30 buttons not including wasd.

lol, how did I miss the old space bar? and yeah R is often needed, as for the others they aren't standard and chat is only for MP.

1-6 is replaced by mouse scroll, which is probably the dpad or the select menu on the console. Not really an issue for converting bewteen platfroms surely?

Capitan wrote on Feb 10, 2013, 03:50:
My dream is that they continue RtCW story where it ends with Himmler. In other words, the new game shall have the same concept, emotions and spirit as in RtCW, but with an updated graphics ofc.

Then they have made the perfect game

Well considering how the 2009 game bombed so badly that it was selling for $30 months after release I'm sure they'll want to forget about it.

netnerd85 wrote on Feb 10, 2013, 08:56:
360 controller: 4 buttons on D pad, 2 analog buttons, 2 triggers, 2 shoulder button and 4 traditional buttons. Total of 14 buttons.

Keyboard: q, e, f, g, ctrl, c, z, x, shift, tab, mouse 1, mouse 2. Total of 12 standard buttons.

What about WASD? they are for movement. Mouse scroll is not a button either.

You missed a lot of keys in there... space (largest key on the KB, duh, mostly used as jump), r (common reload key), t, v, crtl, alt, 1-6, any extra mouse buttons, ect. And lets not forget thing likes y,u,i that are usually chat buttons, and caps lock for VIOP ect. Most game I use no less that 30 buttons not including wasd.

Ray Marden wrote on Feb 10, 2013, 11:02:
In some ways, it almost felt like they pushed out a quickie Wolfenstein game with the Singularity engine while they finished working on the latter.

Odd, as their Wolf is based on id Tech 4, while Singularity is UE3.

Ray Marden wrote on Feb 10, 2013, 11:02:
The last Wolfenstein game felt like another adequate, but generic release from Raven.

What did you think was generic about Wolftenstein 2009?

The last Wolfenstein game felt like another adequate, but generic release from Raven. In some ways, it almost felt like they pushed out a quickie Wolfenstein game with the Singularity engine while they finished working on the latter.

Honestly, I wish somebody would either make something akin to the old 2.5D game - quick, nonsensical, over the top - or take the game in some genre-bending direction. Just another dude shooting nazis isn't going to do much for me.
If you think the last Wolfenseins great, please play more games.
Having been there and done that,
Ray

Pray tell, what was "dumbed down" about Wolfenstein (offline, I know it sucked online)? I wasn't aware even that RtCW was such an apparently revolutionary experience back in its day.

"He is talking about simplifying and dumbing down certain gameplay mechanics, because these gameplay mechanics were not designed for consoles and gamepads."


Well said.

netnerd85 wrote on Feb 10, 2013, 08:56:
So, what are you talking about?

He is talking about simplifying and dumbing down certain gameplay mechanics, because these gameplay mechanics were not designed for consoles and gamepads.

KS wrote on Feb 10, 2013, 08:31:
I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict it has limited buttons and powers because that's console design and all games are driven by that, making it unrecognizable to old-school.

Please let high-profile fails of recent years wake people up. Duke Nukem, DC Universe Online, Dragon Age 2, are we learning, yet?

Yes. You don't know what you're talking about? What did I win?

360 controller: 4 buttons on D pad, 2 analog buttons, 2 triggers, 2 shoulder button and 4 traditional buttons. Total of 14 buttons.

Keyboard: q, e, f, g, ctrl, c, z, x, shift, tab, mouse 1, mouse 2. Total of 12 standard buttons.

What about WASD? they are for movement. Mouse scroll is not a button either.

It's not a matter of buttons. It's more about the interface and how you interact with it. You don't need any more or less buttons for a game. More often with console games you have combo controls. Something that is almost never used on a computer.

Just because a game is on the console doesn't mean it it limited by control buttons or in game abilities.

Most FPS games are very basic in controls and abilities.

So, what are you talking about?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict it has limited buttons and powers because that's console design and all games are driven by that, making it unrecognizable to old-school.

Please let high-profile fails of recent years wake people up. Duke Nukem, DC Universe Online, Dragon Age 2, are we learning, yet?

Just to be different, it would be great if they did an alternate history and had the Germans or even the Russians win; and you play as some sort of terrorist/freedom fighter.

Capitan wrote on Feb 10, 2013, 03:50:
My dream is that they continue RtCW story where it ends with Himmler. In other words, the new game shall have the same concept, emotions and spirit as in RtCW, but with an updated graphics ofc.

Then they have made the perfect game

My dream is that they continue RtCW story where it ends with Himmler. In other words, the new game shall have the same concept, emotions and spirit as in RtCW, but with an updated graphics ofc.

Then they have made the perfect game

entr0py wrote on Feb 10, 2013, 01:48:

Ant wrote on Feb 10, 2013, 01:37:
They should make it like 2D Wolfenstein in FPS. None of the weird powers, zombies, etc.

But surely they should include mecha-hitler.

Meh.