Croteam on Windows 8 Issues

A post on the Steam Users' Forums from a couple of weeks ago offers a distressing overview of Windows 8 from Croteam (thanks Gamer's Hell), as Alen Ladavac says: "I would very much like to clear this one thing. I think that this is very important as there are 'under the hood' motions related to Windows 8 that are hidden and not well understood even by many developers (yet), and certainly not by most gamers." Saying "Gabe Newel did not overreact," he goes on to describe how "under the hood, the new tiled UI is a means for Microsoft to lock Windows applications into a walled garden, much like the one on iOS." Here's more:
There is this "small detail" that Microsoft is not advertising anywhere, but you can find it dug deep in the developer documentation:

One cannot release a tiled UI application by any other means, but only through Windows Store!

I cannot even begin to stress out just how horrible this idea is! There is no side-loading, except for corporate use inside one company, and that works only on the enterprise edition of Windows 8. Do we all understand what that means? You cannot download an application from the Internet and run it on your computer. You have to get it from Microsoft's store. Even if it is a free app!

If it was just about "being downloaded from Windows store", it would not be a problem. It would be nice to have a common hub to download things from. But to get an app onto that store, it has to be certified by MS. This means bringing the "console experience" onto your desktop. Each app that you will get through the Windows Store will have to adhere to certain requirements imposed by MS. So far, we know that they've banned mature games, like Skyrim, CoD, and Serious Sam.[*] They have forbidden modding. They could very well forbid Open Source if they want. But even if these terms were not there, this is still a certification system. With all of its downsides, including uncertain release dates, rare and late patches, and everything turning out to be more expensive and sucking more.

While, theoretically, desktop applications are exempt from these requirements, it looks more and more like just a foot-in-the-door technique. A large number of developers have expressed their concern with possibility that, probably in Windows 9 or something like that, the ability to get even desktop apps in any other way than through Windows app store may very well be removed. When that happens it will be too late.

I would not invest into supporting the tiled UI apps (which MS now conveniently calls "Windows Store apps" - does that ring a bell?), until MS removes the requirement that they have to be shipped through Windows Store on desktop at least - and thereby remove the requirement of certifying them with MS. Certification is a broken concept and should be abolished.

Now, while in current state Windows 8 do look like they support plain desktop apps seamlessly, the removal of start menu and use of "charms" even on the desktop looks like a pretty blunt attempt to force users to "get used" to the tiled UI. It would be fine by me if it wasn't for the aforementioned certification issue.

So, it is a vicious circle. And not an accidental one. This one was carefully designed to be that way. I say: no thank you, I'll skip on that one.

* (Our footnote, not Alen's): He seems to have missed this story).
View : : :
147.
 
Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
Nov 18, 2012, 14:51
Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues Nov 18, 2012, 14:51
Nov 18, 2012, 14:51
 
Zetler wrote on Nov 18, 2012, 10:52:
Right, we should fight Windows 8 because Steam is not a walled garden at all and represent freedom am I right folks? LOL. There's much irony in this.

I hate Steam too, and don't buy anything on it. Gog for the win.
Date
Subject
Author
1.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
2.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
3.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
6.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
5.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
7.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
4.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
8.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
9.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
35.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
41.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
10.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
11.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
13.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
14.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
15.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
17.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
16.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
32.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
45.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
47.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
49.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
51.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
56.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
58.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
68.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
71.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
73.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
74.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
80.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
81.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
83.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
           Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
86.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
            Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
90.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
             Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
87.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
           Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
93.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
            Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
94.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
             Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
95.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
              Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
98.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
            Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
85.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
76.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
79.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
77.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
78.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
100.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
60.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
61.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
62.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
         WTH is he talking about?
63.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
65.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
66.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
           Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
67.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
            Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
69.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
             Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
70.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
             Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
52.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
53.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
54.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
59.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
44.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
46.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
12.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
20.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
25.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
26.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
21.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
23.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
19.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
22.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
24.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
27.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
82.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
84.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
89.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
92.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
96.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
99.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
101.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
106.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
107.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
108.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
           Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
109.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
           Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
110.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
            Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
111.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
             Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
113.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
              Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
112.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
114.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
           Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
115.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
            Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
116.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
             Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
103.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
118.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
28.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
29.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
30.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
57.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
31.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
39.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
33.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
34.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
36.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
37.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
48.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
38.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
40.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
42.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
50.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
72.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
75.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
43.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
55.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
64.
Nov 17, 2012Nov 17 2012
97.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
88.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
91.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
102.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
104.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
105.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
140.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
117.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
119.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
120.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
121.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
123.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
124.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
127.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
125.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
126.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
128.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
      hmmmm
130.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
       Re: hmmmm
132.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
       Re: hmmmm
133.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
        Re: hmmmm
148.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
        Re: hmmmm
149.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
         Re: hmmmm
129.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
131.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
134.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
135.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
122.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
136.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
137.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
138.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
141.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
150.
Nov 19, 2012Nov 19 2012
 147.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
 Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues
139.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
142.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
143.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
144.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
146.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
145.
Nov 18, 2012Nov 18 2012
151.
Nov 19, 2012Nov 19 2012
153.
Nov 19, 2012Nov 19 2012
152.
Nov 19, 2012Nov 19 2012