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Morning Metaverse

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22. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 23, 2012, 17:54 Flatline
 
Oh, and everything this dude is suggesting we do to overhaul email was done before. It's called Google Wave, and it bombed. Terribly.  
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21. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 23, 2012, 17:52 Flatline
 
Creston wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 11:29:
And why are people sending each other emails about when they can have a meeting? Click on Meeting, click on invitees, then you can see when people are busy and when they are available. Pick a time when everyone is available, and schedule the meeting.

This is how pretty much every company that has Exchange that I've been at has done it, and it works just fine. Can't make the meeting? Cancel or propose a new time. At most you get one invite, and then one other one to propose the new time (which you don't even have to act on, as it will automatically update the time of the meeting for you.)

It's even easier than that in modern Exchange environments.

We have 2 conference rooms in our HQ, and 1 conference room in our remote site. I've given each of them an identity and schedule in Exchange. Encouraging people to use their calendar for free/available status means that you can set up meetings in minutes from just about anything with an internet connection.

Email is far from dead. In fact, I'd say integrated messaging systems have finally hit a renaissance where their features and usability are spectacular. Not being a slave to Blackberry and BES because ActiveSync handles Exchange & mobile units is fantastic, pushing exchange out over HTTPS means that I am not slaved to VPNs for my managers that are always traveling, and the integration of exchange into a VOIP system makes life even easier by pushing voicemail out of the office and to exchange accounts, like on mobile handsets.

Our personal assistants who used to be boss bitches now are practically project leads, as their day has been opened up significantly to do productive shit.
 
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20. Re: More Big Picture Details Oct 23, 2012, 09:17 Verno
 
nin wrote on Oct 23, 2012, 08:57:
This is exactly why the idea of tossing email from business is ludicrous. It provides a documented chain of conversation between parties and who agreed to what.


Many businesses don't want a documented chain of evidence for obvious reasons
 
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19. Re: More Big Picture Details Oct 23, 2012, 08:57 nin
 
Prez wrote on Oct 23, 2012, 06:00:
I use email for the simple reason that it is a record of when I informed someone of something. I have had more than enough of "you never told me that" BS from managers when I know goddamn well I did. When someone tells me to do something out of the bounds of standard operating or something that may be against code (I'm an industrial electrician) I tell them to email me exactly what they want done. It's funny how many times I hear them say "never mind" after I tell them that.

This is exactly why the idea of tossing email from business is ludicrous. It provides a documented chain of conversation between parties and who agreed to what.

 
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18. Re: More Big Picture Details Oct 23, 2012, 06:00 Prez
 
I use email for the simple reason that it is a record of when I informed someone of something. I have had more than enough of "you never told me that" BS from managers when I know goddamn well I did. When someone tells me to do something out of the bounds of standard operating or something that may be against code (I'm an industrial electrician) I tell them to email me exactly what they want done. It's funny how many times I hear them say "never mind" after I tell them that.  
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17. Re: More Big Picture Details Oct 22, 2012, 16:26 HorrorScope
 
Creston wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 14:48:
HorrorScope wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 13:43:
Creston wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 12:43:
HorrorScope wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 12:14:
Legal in corporations HATE IT. It is potential incriminating evidence each employee puts out each and every email.

That'd be no different if a company were to move to Twitter or whatever. The legal requirement remains the same: all corporate tweets would have to be retained for a period of X amount of time.

Creston

That is correct, however our legal is advising to use Phone. Can't be used against you if not ok'd recording. I don't quite understand why that old rule still applies. If I can take an email as evidence, if I can take video as evidence, but I can't take audio as evidence, I don't understand. But their solution is using phone calls, no trace, can counter with he said-she said, misunderstood etc.

That only works on a state-by-state basis, btw. Some states don't have that rule, or allow recording with agreement from just one party.

Even so, what is your company doing that's so shady that legal is getting all worried over evidence?

DG wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 13:08:
Yeah isn't that a Sarbanes-Oxley thing?

It's one of the offshoots of Sarbanes-Oxley, yeah.

Creston

It's what any random employee may say that could be against corporate policy. When you work for X you represent X. Can X guarantee that every employee is pristine in every circumstance? They don't want a paper trail, it's not about shady at all. It's about physical evidence used against them in court, that they ultimately did not approve.
 
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16. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 22, 2012, 14:51 Creston
 
Parallax Abstraction wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 14:37:
Creston wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 11:29:
And why are people sending each other emails about when they can have a meeting? Click on Meeting, click on invitees, then you can see when people are busy and when they are available. Pick a time when everyone is available, and schedule the meeting.

Couldn't agree more. To be fair, in my company the whole e-mail discussions about meetings thing doesn't happen very often. Most people are actually pretty good about using Outlook invites the way they're supposed to be. But holy crap, I did a 3 month contract job at KPMG's Ottawa office in 2010. They're one of the "big four" accounting firms in the world. And you would not believe the e-mail threads involved to setup one meeting or make one decision. I was there for a Windows 7 implementation project and we found a bug in their image. I figured out how to fix it in minutes but to get a decision to fix the bug involved an e-mail thread that was at least 100 posts deep or more. I ended up surfing the Internet at my desk for almost a week until they figured this out because there was nothing for me to do. It was insane and so many companies operate this way. But like you said, removing e-mail isn't going to fix that. It's the people that have to change, not the medium.

Yeah, that's purely a bad management problem, it has nothing to do with the technical implementations of their communications systems. If they'd be on Twitter, or on HootSuite (incidentally: what a fucking stupid name), they'd be Hooting 100 times before they could figure something out.

This seems to be a common occurence at accounting firms, btw. I guess accountants lack the ability to just do things the easy way...

Creston
 
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15. Re: More Big Picture Details Oct 22, 2012, 14:48 Creston
 
HorrorScope wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 13:43:
Creston wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 12:43:
HorrorScope wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 12:14:
Legal in corporations HATE IT. It is potential incriminating evidence each employee puts out each and every email.

That'd be no different if a company were to move to Twitter or whatever. The legal requirement remains the same: all corporate tweets would have to be retained for a period of X amount of time.

Creston

That is correct, however our legal is advising to use Phone. Can't be used against you if not ok'd recording. I don't quite understand why that old rule still applies. If I can take an email as evidence, if I can take video as evidence, but I can't take audio as evidence, I don't understand. But their solution is using phone calls, no trace, can counter with he said-she said, misunderstood etc.

That only works on a state-by-state basis, btw. Some states don't have that rule, or allow recording with agreement from just one party.

Even so, what is your company doing that's so shady that legal is getting all worried over evidence?

DG wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 13:08:
Yeah isn't that a Sarbanes-Oxley thing?

It's one of the offshoots of Sarbanes-Oxley, yeah.

Creston
 
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14. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 22, 2012, 14:37 Parallax Abstraction
 
Creston wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 11:29:
And why are people sending each other emails about when they can have a meeting? Click on Meeting, click on invitees, then you can see when people are busy and when they are available. Pick a time when everyone is available, and schedule the meeting.

Couldn't agree more. To be fair, in my company the whole e-mail discussions about meetings thing doesn't happen very often. Most people are actually pretty good about using Outlook invites the way they're supposed to be. But holy crap, I did a 3 month contract job at KPMG's Ottawa office in 2010. They're one of the "big four" accounting firms in the world. And you would not believe the e-mail threads involved to setup one meeting or make one decision. I was there for a Windows 7 implementation project and we found a bug in their image. I figured out how to fix it in minutes but to get a decision to fix the bug involved an e-mail thread that was at least 100 posts deep or more. I ended up surfing the Internet at my desk for almost a week until they figured this out because there was nothing for me to do. It was insane and so many companies operate this way. But like you said, removing e-mail isn't going to fix that. It's the people that have to change, not the medium.
 
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13. Re: More Big Picture Details Oct 22, 2012, 13:43 HorrorScope
 
Creston wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 12:43:
HorrorScope wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 12:14:
Legal in corporations HATE IT. It is potential incriminating evidence each employee puts out each and every email.

That'd be no different if a company were to move to Twitter or whatever. The legal requirement remains the same: all corporate tweets would have to be retained for a period of X amount of time.

Creston

That is correct, however our legal is advising to use Phone. Can't be used against you if not ok'd recording. I don't quite understand why that old rule still applies. If I can take an email as evidence, if I can take video as evidence, but I can't take audio as evidence, I don't understand. But their solution is using phone calls, no trace, can counter with he said-she said, misunderstood etc.
 
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12. Re: More Big Picture Details Oct 22, 2012, 13:08 DG
 
Yeah isn't that a Sarbanes-Oxley thing?

p.s. no probs with email if managed correctly. I do prefer the gmail approach over outlook - default outlook anyway, keeping related emails in a stack.
 
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11. Re: More Big Picture Details Oct 22, 2012, 12:43 Creston
 
HorrorScope wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 12:14:
Legal in corporations HATE IT. It is potential incriminating evidence each employee puts out each and every email.

That'd be no different if a company were to move to Twitter or whatever. The legal requirement remains the same: all corporate tweets would have to be retained for a period of X amount of time.

Creston
 
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10. Re: More Big Picture Details Oct 22, 2012, 12:14 HorrorScope
 
"He banned email. Employees were discouraged from sending or receiving internal messages, with the goal of eradicating email within 18 months. Critics scoffed. Workers rebelled. But Thierry Breton, the CEO of Atos, has stuck to his guns, reducing message volume by an estimated 20%."

Sounds like a fail, banned/eradicating... !=20% reduction.

I do a lot of positive customer experience work with email. But I do see emails going bye bye if at all possible. Legal in corporations HATE IT. It is potential incriminating evidence each employee puts out each and every email. They hate that, they want to live in secrecy, behind company press releases only, they want every message a corporation puts out be passed by them to make sure the company is covered etc. My company has recently put out a message to us to whenever possible not use email, and a bunch of reasons why and tips around it. Even though we all have email and BB's for email, the BB's were purchased heavily for emailing.

Personally I love it, my customers love it, really productive for a quick meeting a sentence, for detailed work, you can broadcast it. But corporations.... Ahem.

I'm also getting another feeling that a lot of business refrain from hiring is they look at each employee now as a potential lawsuit against the company itself over several possible reasons.
 
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9. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 22, 2012, 11:59 Techie714 ©
 
@Parallax Abstraction

Your post was outstanding! I also work in IT & agree with everything you mentioned.
 
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8. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 22, 2012, 11:29 Creston
 
Parallax Abstraction wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 10:23:
You know, I get where the spirit of that guy's article is rooted and that e-mail in the corporate space in particular has become a nightmare but turning e-mail into another social network and one that integrates with Twitter and Facebook?! Is he out of his mind?! How many stories do we have to see about employees being disciplined for the stupid crap they post to social media to realise what a bad idea that is? Not everything has to be like Facebook and Twitter, in fact many things are best not wrapped in this narcissistic notion that everyone around the world wants to hear what you're doing every second of the day (and I say this as a heavy Twitter user who probably posts too much of that crap myself.)

12 e-mails to setup a meeting and massive inboxes aren't a sign of problems with e-mail itself, they're a sign of people being unable to properly manage their time and resources. I work in IT at a company of almost 200, I get boatloads of e-mail a day and while I'm never at "inbox 0", I'm never more than "inbox 10" or so because I delete the messages I don't need, I don't acknowledge every message that doesn't need it (I hate it when people do this) and if people are starting a ridiculous thread of conversation about setting up a meeting, I respond to it and say "This is when I can be there. When you guys figure out the time, please send the Outlook invite" and I ignore the rest of the thread until the invite comes. This method can come across as snotty to some people but it's what you have to do. Organise your time, control e-mail and don't let it control you. Turning it into a social network will just make it even more untenable.

Oh, I missed the bottom of the e-mail where the guy who wrote it is the CEO of HootSuite, a major social media tool. Another article asking someone who has a vested interest in seeing something die what he thinks about that something. Yeesh.

And why are people sending each other emails about when they can have a meeting? Click on Meeting, click on invitees, then you can see when people are busy and when they are available. Pick a time when everyone is available, and schedule the meeting.

This is how pretty much every company that has Exchange that I've been at has done it, and it works just fine. Can't make the meeting? Cancel or propose a new time. At most you get one invite, and then one other one to propose the new time (which you don't even have to act on, as it will automatically update the time of the meeting for you.)

I don't know what the fuck this guy is doing if he has to send 12 emails to get a meeting set up.

And yeah, let's go the Twitter/Facebook route! That works REALLY well with confidential information! Rolleyes Here's another doozy:

Documents attached and edited and reedited until no one knows which version is current.

Have you ever heard of Sharepoint, buddy? Basically this article is saying "My company is stuck with email systems from the early 90s, as we haven't bothered to update to more modern productivity software. WAAAAAAH. Let's do all our work communication at #pleasetalkhereworkers!"




God, what a fucking toolbag. Figures he's the CEO of a shitty social media outfit that nobody's heard of and which will likely die again in a year.

Creston

This comment was edited on Oct 22, 2012, 11:37.
 
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7. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 22, 2012, 11:18 Verno
 
Cutter wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 11:12:
I fucking hate Twitter and this hastag bullshit. It's bad enough every fucking station has watermarks, but if they all jump on this stupidity I'm finally done with TV. I've even started deleting people on my friends list from FB because of that fucking nonsense.

I was watching something the other day at a friends place where they had both the hash tag and the network logo for a good chunk of the program length, totally obnoxious. I stick mostly to drama on TV so its annoying when they throw in immersion breakers like that.
 
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6. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 22, 2012, 11:14 Beamer
 
Cutter wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 11:12:
I fucking hate Twitter and this hastag bullshit. It's bad enough every fucking station has watermarks, but if they all jump on this stupidity I'm finally done with TV. I've even started deleting people on my friends list from FB because of that fucking nonsense.

I started ranting on this on Saturday, but my friends looks kind of shut me up.
I don't get why something like #thewalkingdead is a hashtag permanently on TV. Jesus, do they need to spoonfeed us the incredibly obvious ones? #bluesnews
 
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5. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 22, 2012, 11:12 Cutter
 
I fucking hate Twitter and this hastag bullshit. It's bad enough every fucking station has watermarks, but if they all jump on this stupidity I'm finally done with TV. I've even started deleting people on my friends list from FB because of that fucking nonsense.

 
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4. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 22, 2012, 10:33 eRe4s3r
 
Not to mention that if you need to use EMAILS for collaborative work you maybe have not heard of Skype. I mean even as freelancer if there is only 1 guy giving me directions, emails are my medium of choice (because I have a huge log that I can search in a pretty interface online and offline) and images can be attached and files moved.

Email as a tool will never (20years~) disappear.
 
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3. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 22, 2012, 10:28 nin
 

I laugh at articles like that.

12 e-mails to setup a meeting and massive inboxes aren't a sign of problems with e-mail itself, they're a sign of people being unable to properly manage their time and resources

Exactly. It's a tool. And if people don't know how to use it right, it's not the tools fault.


Oh, I missed the bottom of the e-mail where the guy who wrote it is the CEO of HootSuite, a major social media tool.

Good catch. I wonder where hootsuite will be in 5 years, when I'm still using email?

 
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