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This comment was deleted on Oct 12, 2012, 04:22.

Jerykk wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 18:42:

Bhruic wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 18:12:

Jerykk wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 17:30:
DLC isn't always withheld content. In some cases, it is (like with ME3's From Ashes DLC) but in many cases, the DLC has a completely separate budget and dev cycle from the main game. Once a game reaches beta, the artists and designers aren't really generating any new content for the main game. They're just fixing bugs and doing general polish tasks. As such, it makes sense for them to start working on DLC during this period. That's how they can release DLC so soon after the main game's release.

You're making a distinction that I don't count. Yes, it's not always stuff they physically removed ala ME3's Ashes. But it's still often stuff that was planned out well before the game was shipped, let alone finalized. Even the Mechromancer DLC was planned before the game hit gold. They might not have started working on it, but they'd already effectively separated it from the game ahead of time. That's what I'm talking about by "withheld".

Well, yeah, of course it was planned out before the game's release but that doesn't mean it was originally going to be part of the game. Games have budgets and deadlines and at a certain point in development (beta), you just can't create any new content without putting the game's stability (and thus deadlines and budget) at risk. Were it not for the DLC model, this Captain Scarlett content simply wouldn't be made.

You're the only person that ever agrees with me when I say this.

Features that were cut at some point in the process, either because of budget or time, can be added back in as DLC. It isn't "oh, we can monetize this," it's "oh, we can manage to get that cool thing back!"

Yes, this isn't always true. Capcom's palette changes and the Gears of War 3 gun colors were obviously withheld content - someone could have made those in 20 minutes.

Something like this? It's bonus content. Maybe it was planned to be included and wasn't. Maybe the idea came during development, too late to actually add it. Whatever the case, it isn't as if the game is incomplete without it.

jacobvandy wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 13:39:

Beamer wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 13:36:
I found a really nice orange SMG yesterday. Got it from leveling a Goliath all the way up. That's been the most consistent way of getting good loot for me.

Yeah, but it's a pain in the ass! I've only had it happen a few times, and all but one were by accident. Usually you have to babysit him so he doesn't get killed, then you have to be careful not to finish off the other guys, etc.

I do it in Tundra Express. Two pop out by Tiny Tina (one next to her cave, one across the river.) It's easy to have them chase you through all the Varkid's in the beginning of the level (if you run through without fighting them.) Takes about 3 minutes to level him up.

I've kind of petered out on BL2. I'm kind of wishing I'd waited and bought it when it was finished (all DLC released). I was having a blast with it, but something about it got me in the mood for some Fallout New Vegas. I had been trying out mods off and on for the past couple of months and pretty much had everything picked out, installed and ready to go, I just needed a push to get started.

Right now I'm just using mostly texture and appearance improving mods, bug fixes and some minor game tweaks to make the experience a little harder and immersive without changing much of the core game. After this play I want to start a new game with the jsawyer mod and nothing else except texture/appearance mods.

Maybe when I'm done with that, they'll be finished with all of the BL2 DLC and I'll come back to it.

HorrorScope wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 18:10:
If I enjoyed the game, felt square with the initial game and wanted to continue the experience, great. I actually look forward to it.

This is the bottom line. Arguing over DLC is pointless, just make a simple evaluation and move on with your life, whether or not you make the purchase.

ME3 was a disappointment, so having day one DLC was an insult. BL2 is awesome, so the sooner DLC comes out, the better. I wanted Skyrim DLC sooner, too, but they took way too long to come up with something rather small and not good enough, so my interest was not piqued.(These are my evaluations, obv.)

Bhruic wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 18:12:

Jerykk wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 17:30:
DLC isn't always withheld content. In some cases, it is (like with ME3's From Ashes DLC) but in many cases, the DLC has a completely separate budget and dev cycle from the main game. Once a game reaches beta, the artists and designers aren't really generating any new content for the main game. They're just fixing bugs and doing general polish tasks. As such, it makes sense for them to start working on DLC during this period. That's how they can release DLC so soon after the main game's release.

You're making a distinction that I don't count. Yes, it's not always stuff they physically removed ala ME3's Ashes. But it's still often stuff that was planned out well before the game was shipped, let alone finalized. Even the Mechromancer DLC was planned before the game hit gold. They might not have started working on it, but they'd already effectively separated it from the game ahead of time. That's what I'm talking about by "withheld".

Well, yeah, of course it was planned out before the game's release but that doesn't mean it was originally going to be part of the game. Games have budgets and deadlines and at a certain point in development (beta), you just can't create any new content without putting the game's stability (and thus deadlines and budget) at risk. Were it not for the DLC model, this Captain Scarlett content simply wouldn't be made.

Jerykk wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 17:30:
DLC isn't always withheld content. In some cases, it is (like with ME3's From Ashes DLC) but in many cases, the DLC has a completely separate budget and dev cycle from the main game. Once a game reaches beta, the artists and designers aren't really generating any new content for the main game. They're just fixing bugs and doing general polish tasks. As such, it makes sense for them to start working on DLC during this period. That's how they can release DLC so soon after the main game's release.

You're making a distinction that I don't count. Yes, it's not always stuff they physically removed ala ME3's Ashes. But it's still often stuff that was planned out well before the game was shipped, let alone finalized. Even the Mechromancer DLC was planned before the game hit gold. They might not have started working on it, but they'd already effectively separated it from the game ahead of time. That's what I'm talking about by "withheld".

Jerykk wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 17:30:
DLC has a completely separate budget and dev cycle from the main game.

Right. Think about Kickstarter accelerators. There is some resemblance with those and DLC.

I really don't know what the peoples beef is with DLC. The only time I would be up in arms is if I just paid $50 for a 6 hour game and another 6 hours was released soon afterwards as DLC, no matter the cost. If the game felt really short and I felt robbed and there was quick DLC, that would get me. But that is simple, I wouldn't buy it and that company's future releases would be scrutinized more.

But in most cases this is what it has been:

DLC for trivial things, only a rabid fan would want. No big to me.

DLC of sizable content. If I enjoyed the game, felt square with the initial game and wanted to continue the experience, great. I actually look forward to it.

I miss the real tragedy going on here.

BL2 gives you plenty of content for the base game. You don't need any of the DLC at all. It's for those that simply want to keep the experience going.

I even laugh a bit with the so-called lack of good drop rates in BL2. Actually the game can be considered more fun without too powerful of loot to begin with. Sort of interesting how gameplay can vary greatly in a game like this because of loot and better loot can make gameplay trivial. Some state they are high level and have only like 4 Purples. Dude you have the worst luck ever with slots then, do not, I repeat do not go to Vegas ever and play slots. I have more then I can keep, I do have strong weapons now, really to the point early game was better as it was more tactical. But I can fix that anytime I want I suppose by simply bringing lesser weapons with me.

Bhruic wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 17:21:

Flatline wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 16:58:
Wow. Talk about no-win scenario. Usually people bitch that a game is out for six months and they're not interested in new DLC. They actually get DLC out in a reasonable time period and they get shit.

In general, yes, DLC is a no-win scenario. Having it come out immediately is a good indication that they withheld from the game, having it come out later means a vastly decreased market. But companies used to combat that well by putting out actual expansion packs. Take Civ IV for example - the expansion packs for that vastly changed the game to such a degree that it doesn't matter how long they took, they made the game worth playing again. Same with something like Brood Wars for Starcraft. Nowadays we have stuff like Dawnguard or this, which are basically just mission packs. They don't change the game in any real way, so they aren't sufficient to make you want to replay.

The solution is to take your time and put out something that's sufficiently compelling to ensure people take a second look at your game. Unfortunately few companies take that route, prefering the quick buck.

DLC isn't always withheld content. In some cases, it is (like with ME3's From Ashes DLC) but in many cases, the DLC has a completely separate budget and dev cycle from the main game. Once a game reaches beta, the artists and designers aren't really generating any new content for the main game. They're just fixing bugs and doing general polish tasks. As such, it makes sense for them to start working on DLC during this period. That's how they can release DLC so soon after the main game's release.

Flatline wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 16:58:
Wow. Talk about no-win scenario. Usually people bitch that a game is out for six months and they're not interested in new DLC. They actually get DLC out in a reasonable time period and they get shit.

In general, yes, DLC is a no-win scenario. Having it come out immediately is a good indication that they withheld from the game, having it come out later means a vastly decreased market. But companies used to combat that well by putting out actual expansion packs. Take Civ IV for example - the expansion packs for that vastly changed the game to such a degree that it doesn't matter how long they took, they made the game worth playing again. Same with something like Brood Wars for Starcraft. Nowadays we have stuff like Dawnguard or this, which are basically just mission packs. They don't change the game in any real way, so they aren't sufficient to make you want to replay.

The solution is to take your time and put out something that's sufficiently compelling to ensure people take a second look at your game. Unfortunately few companies take that route, prefering the quick buck.

Flatline wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 16:58:

McSterls wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 12:36:
I love Borderlands 2, but to hell with this. Games been out three weeks and we have DLC coming out already, should have been included as part of the base game. Money grubbing bastards. Too many good games to play right now, I'll come back next year when this is on sale for 2 bucka and buy it.

Wow. Talk about no-win scenario. Usually people bitch that a game is out for six months and they're not interested in new DLC. They actually get DLC out in a reasonable time period and they get shit.

Yeah it's not like the game is short. This is for people that really really love BL2. No one is holding a gun to your head.... yet.

Flatline wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 16:58:
Wow. Talk about no-win scenario. Usually people bitch that a game is out for six months and they're not interested in new DLC. They actually get DLC out in a reasonable time period and they get shit.

I don't think people usually have that complaint unless the DLC isn't worth reinvesting time into the game. I would love Skyrim DLC in a timely manner but not if it means getting shit like Dawnguard.

Their ability to turn this around so quickly is dubious, looks like there is evidence they were readying it for awhile. At least they provided a lengthy game so people can't say they were shorted on content.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!

McSterls wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 12:36:
I love Borderlands 2, but to hell with this. Games been out three weeks and we have DLC coming out already, should have been included as part of the base game. Money grubbing bastards. Too many good games to play right now, I'll come back next year when this is on sale for 2 bucka and buy it.

Wow. Talk about no-win scenario. Usually people bitch that a game is out for six months and they're not interested in new DLC. They actually get DLC out in a reasonable time period and they get shit.

Didn't seem to like the code from my machine...

Season pass with coupon is 50% off at GMG. (From retail)

7HEHX-3BUKG-9CKNU-5G9YN-3WBL2

Comes to 5.00 a pack, which is 3.50 more a pack than I paid for BL1, but I wasn't as into that one as I am for BL2. I can't stop playing this damn game.....unless I am playing RCR!!!! hahahaha

I'll be pretty occupied with Dishonored (which is awesome) and XCOM (which I've barely played so far), though I still manage to put some time into BL2.

SpectralMeat wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 15:17:
Same here I got the game from GMG and got the Mechro DLC automagically yesterday

Yep same here, it was a 700MB patch or something I think. Some preorders didn't get the Premiere club, I remember that being a thing on GMGs site but I'm not sure how it all worked out in the end. If it's listed on the account then you should have it though. Do the usual stuff - restart Steam, verify cache integrity, etc.

nin wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 15:13:

The Half Elf wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 15:12:
Question: Pre-ordered BL2 from GMG, was given the premiere club, installed on Steam, and not showing the Mechromancer. Wasn't it part of the pre-order?

Yeah, you should have gotten it (I did, from GMG). Verify integrity maybe?

Same here I got the game from GMG and got the Mechro DLC automagically yesterday

Creston wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 14:38:

Thanks for the heads up. I need to see if they still have tickets!

Creston

Looks like tomorrow...

edit: Oh, and the times are wrong - they sent out an email this morning saying doors at 6/show at 7.

The Half Elf wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 15:12:
Question: Pre-ordered BL2 from GMG, was given the premiere club, installed on Steam, and not showing the Mechromancer. Wasn't it part of the pre-order?

Yeah, you should have gotten it (I did, from GMG). Verify integrity maybe?