hb3d wrote on Oct 15, 2012, 06:52:

Verno wrote on Oct 12, 2012, 09:03:
This awesome reply should not be drowned out by garage suffocation nonsense.

Yes, it should be drowned out because it's a combination of hypocrisy and fear-mongering bullshit based upon what Microsoft could possibly try to do instead of what Microsoft has actually stated. If you accept Steam's restrictions as Prez has, you can't legitimately bitch about Microsoft's same restrictions for its own storefront.

I don't see any hypocrisy here and Steams restrictions are different from the Windows 8 stores. Xbox Live to Steam would be a more valid comparison. Steam also recently opened up part of its approval process. Microsoft also hasn't said much about their platform intentions which is part of why people tend to be leery. We have existing examples of closed platform distribution from several vendors to compare, Microsoft included thanks to Xbox Live.

Verno wrote on Oct 12, 2012, 09:03:
This awesome reply should not be drowned out by garage suffocation nonsense.

Yes, it should be drowned out because it's a combination of hypocrisy and fear-mongering bullshit based upon what Microsoft could possibly try to do instead of what Microsoft has actually stated. If you accept Steam's restrictions as Prez has, you can't legitimately bitch about Microsoft's same restrictions for its own storefront.

Prez wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 17:28:
Nope, not the same...Now tell me where I can find another OS that will play all of the modern, older, and classic games aside from Windows.

It is the same because the Microsoft store is not going to be the only place to purchase or obtain games for Windows 8. It is just one walled garden for Windows. Steam is another walled garden for Windows.

Having your own set of rules for your service is not censorship.

Of course it's censorship! Valve is refusing to offer those games even on its Greenlight service which is supposed to allow users to decide if a game should be available on Steam. Just because it's not the government imposing it doesn't mean it's not censorship. Plus when everyone in the market imposes the same restrictions/censorship it has virtually the same effect as government censorship. That's why major developers and publishers don't release adults-only games because basically all of the retailers and digital distributors ban them.

Speeding towards forcing that everything that can possibly be used on your PC with your restrictive certification process and marketplace makes it clear that's where Microsoft is headed.

While your assertion isn't true based upon what Microsoft has actually stated, even if it were, for PC games it would just be trading one dominant walled garden (Steam) for Microsoft's since those two have basically the same standards/restrictions based upon public statements. Steam is basically now a monopoly for PC games because even if a PC game isn't sold through Steam, it most likely requires Steam which means that the game had to be approved by Valve for sale. In addition judging from online comments across many Internet forums there are many PC users who will only buy games which use Steam. That means that Steam is the de facto arbiter of what games get released/made on the PC because if a game isn't allowed on Steam, it won't be successful, and if it isn't successful, similar games won't get made in the future.

Valve restrictirons largely around quality.

No, as my adult game example proved it had nothing to do with the quality of the game. And, quality is highly subjective. Plus the whole idea of Greenlight was supposed to be to let the community not Valve decide what games are good enough for Steam. Instead Valve is being hypocritical by denying some legitimate games upfront based upon its own arbitrary standards of indency, quality, etc.

This comment was edited on Oct 15, 2012, 07:24.

Is it also going to block nudies pics and videos from my box? Seriously.

Prez wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 17:28:

hb3d wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 16:09:
How is what Microsoft is doing here any different than what Valve already does with Steam? You are simply trading one walled-garden for another.

Nope, not the same. There are other game services and retail is still viable to avoid what restrictions Steam imposes if I so choose. Now tell me where I can find another OS that will play all of the modern, older, and classic games aside from Windows. You can't. Having your own set of rules for your service is not censorship. Speeding towards forcing that everything that can possibly be used on your PC with your restrictive certification process and marketplace makes it clear that's where Microsoft is headed. An indie who wants to release a game that Steam won't allow will always be able to do it a hundred different ways. With the direction MS is going in, how long before they can't without getting MS's okay to do it? I don't want Microsoft restricting what I can and can't use on my heretofore open platform. Clearly they are heading in that direction with the Windows 8 abomination. Valve restrictirons largely around quality. Microsoft is heading down the path of being sole arbiters of what is "appropriate". There isn't even a comparison to be made here between Steam and Microsoft's attempts at locking down the PC and removing one of its greatest aspects - freedom. Hopefully Linux will step up and fill the gap because if Windows 8 is the "future" then you can count me out.

This awesome reply should not be drowned out by garage suffocation nonsense.

Mr. Tact wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 21:53:

Dev wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 20:16:

Mr. Tact wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 17:22:
Is this still true for a modern vehicle with a functioning exhaust system? I seem to remember reading a critic of a movie or tv show about someone doing this and how it wasn't valid any longer.

Even if ALL of the carbon monoxide is prevented (which its not) from a modern cat, you still have the issue of a combustion engine burning... oxygen. You can suffocate even if you don't get poisoned. My guess is it would be more painful and take longer. But I'm not going to test it.

Hmmm, you could be right. I don't know about your garage buy mine is nowhere close to air tight. I wouldn't be surprised either way -- it might depend on how air tight the garage is and if you are propped up in the car or laying on the floor of the garage.

You'd still die, it may take longer but you breath enough carbon monoxide in a tight closed spot like that, you're going to die plain and simple.

Dev wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 20:16:

Mr. Tact wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 17:22:
Is this still true for a modern vehicle with a functioning exhaust system? I seem to remember reading a critic of a movie or tv show about someone doing this and how it wasn't valid any longer.

Even if ALL of the carbon monoxide is prevented (which its not) from a modern cat, you still have the issue of a combustion engine burning... oxygen. You can suffocate even if you don't get poisoned. My guess is it would be more painful and take longer. But I'm not going to test it.

Hmmm, you could be right. I don't know about your garage buy mine is nowhere close to air tight. I wouldn't be surprised either way -- it might depend on how air tight the garage is and if you are propped up in the car or laying on the floor of the garage.

Those damn cats

Yakubs wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 13:19:
This is basically a meaningless announcement. Who cares what Microsoft allows on their "Marketplace"? You can still buy software outside of the marketplace in exactly the same way you do now.

No you can't, not if its a app. Metro apps are ONLY available through the marketplace and ONLY if MS gives their stamp of approval.

HorrorScope wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 17:19:
There is plenty of time to boycott and bitch if/when that really proves itself.

It won't matter a bit. Since it will come on all new computers, including ones businesses buy. When a business buys a license for "windows" and downgrade it MS will still count it as a windows 8 sale. And of course, just like every OS before, MS will stop selling the earlier windows version fairly quickly.

Mr. Tact wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 17:22:

Cutter wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 17:17:
As a friend of mine once said, sit in a closed garage and smoke a few packs of smokes over an hour or two and you might feel nauseous. Do it with a running car and you won't be walking out of that garage.

Is this still true for a modern vehicle with a functioning exhaust system? I seem to remember reading a critic of a movie or tv show about someone doing this and how it wasn't valid any longer.

Even if ALL of the carbon monoxide is prevented (which its not) from a modern cat, you still have the issue of a combustion engine burning... oxygen. You can suffocate even if you don't get poisoned. My guess is it would be more painful and take longer. But I'm not going to test it.

This comment was edited on Oct 11, 2012, 20:28.

HorrorScope wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 18:53:

Closed Betas wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 18:37:

HorrorScope wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 18:12:

Closed Betas wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 18:09:
Here comes communism.... Now we are being dictated what we can use on our computers...

As I said... Slippery Slope hysteria. Now we are at communism.

I'm sorry you sit at home and play with your putz all day, but I'm out there in the industry watching every manufacturer monopolize with distributors in the world to control and force feed consumers.

Oh shut the hell up.

Not to say that he has a curious conception of communism actually is.

Cutter wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 17:17:
As a friend of mine once said, sit in a closed garage and smoke a few packs of smokes over an hour or two and you might feel nauseous. Do it with a running car and you won't be walking out of that garage. It's like when I see people jogging or biking in the heart of the city through all that traffic, it's pretty amusing when they rail against cigarette smoke.

The matter of automobiles being far more emissions-efficient today than they were even 5-10 years ago aside, the difference is that cigarettes serve no useful purpose. Smoking is entirely voluntary, a cheap yet incredibly harmful way to stimulate your brain that too many weaker-willed people get themselves hooked on. They don't produce anything, they don't get you to work or transport goods, they don't create jobs, yadda yadda yadda. They are expendable in our society, and that is why they are a source of irritating pollution so readily derided and done away with. (Lol, by the end there I felt like I could be talking about a totally different topic...)

Closed Betas wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 18:37:

HorrorScope wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 18:12:

Closed Betas wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 18:09:
Here comes communism.... Now we are being dictated what we can use on our computers...

As I said... Slippery Slope hysteria. Now we are at communism.

I'm sorry you sit at home and play with your putz all day, but I'm out there in the industry watching every manufacturer monopolize with distributors in the world to control and force feed consumers.

Oh shut the hell up. We all know these things, it's dime a dozen in the thought processing dept, you don't have some amazing insight. What in gods name makes you think I don't work in the real big-boy world? You are posting on a gaming site as well don't forget, POT.

I just like how a Marketplace on Win 8 draws instant hysteria and then we just go straight to endgame and the communism card is played. Good thing most don't have access to the "Big Red Button" ya know? How about we really see where this goes before we panic too much? Face it MS has a real hard time right now making any major new standard. MS wants to me more like Apple, sure that is what investors want to hear. Here is the problem, those that buy Apple products are not looking for MS products no matter how much they try and copy, MS is out for the Apple buyer for the vast majority, that ship sailed a loong time ago. And those that don't want Apple products or their ways won't be supporting those that do. So MS will just fail another time. Trying to become something no one wants them for.

HorrorScope wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 18:12:

Closed Betas wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 18:09:
Here comes communism.... Now we are being dictated what we can use on our computers...

As I said... Slippery Slope hysteria. Now we are at communism.

I'm sorry you sit at home and play with your putz all day, but I'm out there in the industry watching every manufacturer monopolize with distributors in the world to control and force feed consumers. They do it to jack up the prices. See, the MFR's buy out the competition and rape their consumers who NEED to buy these parts over cost to replace... While their grow their own brand...

For the past 2 years, since you obviously are not paying attention, is that all the major distributors in the world have just shifted, and gone from having MANY DISTRIBUTORS to a monopolistic single distributor and prices have rose 50% as operating costs have reduced during this time dramatically (even fuel prices). Easily seen by Fed Ex and UPS announcing a 15 cent fuel surcharge price drop.

Now its obvious and you are seeing the giants of tech prepare to do the same... Marketplace = monopoly = control over choice = communism..

Don't you recall the days you could buy your own cable tv receiver? The days you could choose which part you put in your computer? Well sir, soon you won't have that choice, you'll have a price and you'll have to pay it with no option. Other than maybe choosing a new brand, which will be choked out of the market by the controlling dominant force.. We had rules against monopolies for reasons...

Hysteria? The only thing hysterical around here is the whole world sitting back letting this happen....

Government don't care no more.. They don't protect the people. The money is gone and government can only make money if they are spending it... So guess what, bribe bribe bribe accepted. Now Capitalistic country now illegally monopolized becomes communist and everything we died for has been stolen by our forefathers.

The basis of the accusation was based of yesterdays Microsoft dude saying he looks forward to being more like Apple. Apple was always a communist run company.. You had one router to choose from. You paid their price. You had 1-2 size hard drives to choose from, you paid their price... You had one type of memory to buy and you paid their price. If your power supply died, your fucked, you can't run down the street, you need to call Apple and pay their price. Yes good support, who wouldn't give you good support paying $350 for a $80 hard drive equivalent to the PC world. WORLD OF SUCKERS and they are sucking you dry.

Closed Betas wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 18:09:
Here comes communism.... Now we are being dictated what we can use on our computers...

As I said... Slippery Slope hysteria. Now we are at communism.

Here comes communism.... Now we are being dictated what we can use on our computers...

Sorry, won't ever be buying any future Windows OS, they can take they're pathetic upcoming failure attempt of making a "monopolistic" retail shop out of their OS and simply GO F**K themselves...

Support this and soon your dinner rolls will be dictated to you.

hb3d wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 16:09:
How is what Microsoft is doing here any different than what Valve already does with Steam? You are simply trading one walled-garden for another.

Nope, not the same. There are other game services and retail is still viable to avoid what restrictions Steam imposes if I so choose. Now tell me where I can find another OS that will play all of the modern, older, and classic games aside from Windows. You can't. Having your own set of rules for your service is not censorship. Speeding towards forcing that everything that can possibly be used on your PC with your restrictive certification process and marketplace makes it clear that's where Microsoft is headed. An indie who wants to release a game that Steam won't allow will always be able to do it a hundred different ways. With the direction MS is going in, how long before they can't without getting MS's okay to do it? I don't want Microsoft restricting what I can and can't use on my heretofore open platform. Clearly they are heading in that direction with the Windows 8 abomination. Valve restrictirons largely around quality. Microsoft is heading down the path of being sole arbiters of what is "appropriate". There isn't even a comparison to be made here between Steam and Microsoft's attempts at locking down the PC and removing one of its greatest aspects - freedom. Hopefully Linux will step up and fill the gap because if Windows 8 is the "future" then you can count me out.

This comment was edited on Oct 11, 2012, 18:06.

Cutter wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 17:17:
As a friend of mine once said, sit in a closed garage and smoke a few packs of smokes over an hour or two and you might feel nauseous. Do it with a running car and you won't be walking out of that garage.

Is this still true for a modern vehicle with a functioning exhaust system? I seem to remember reading a critic of a movie or tv show about someone doing this and how it wasn't valid any longer.

Yakubs wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 13:19:
This is basically a meaningless announcement. Who cares what Microsoft allows on their "Marketplace"? You can still buy software outside of the marketplace in exactly the same way you do now.

I'm living there until I see some real damage. Many here are using pure slippery slope and since they are doing this it's going to close off all open games. There is plenty of time to boycott and bitch if/when that really proves itself.

I'm not too worried because MS is rudderless here, they are grasping at things, trying now to be more Apple again. Clueless and most likely something that will never catch on to the point it will really affect us.

Verno wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 15:28:

deqer wrote on Oct 11, 2012, 14:41:
Doesn't need to hit you in the face for it to be a serious issue. It's hitting you already, for the entire time you're outside; you just don't feel it. Why else do you think we only live till 100?

People rarely lived to 100 before smoking and pollution either. Neither is good for you but cell decay is a fact of life.

That was more due to the fact of diet. However longevity shot way up - almost by double - with industrialization because people started having affordable access to all manner of good foods that were otherwise unavailable. Anyone who lives in a city should be a hell of a lot more concerned about cars and factories then smoking. That's just an easy scapegoat the government deflects with. Look how hard it is to get cleaner cars on the road and cleaner factories.

As a friend of mine once said, sit in a closed garage and smoke a few packs of smokes over an hour or two and you might feel nauseous. Do it with a running car and you won't be walking out of that garage. It's like when I see people jogging or biking in the heart of the city through all that traffic, it's pretty amusing when they rail against cigarette smoke.

Clearly, the defunct development team that was led by the nutrient deficient Vegan assclown that decided to realise modern day Flinstone Slate computing, are not sapiens born of adults, so it is clear, that they don't want adult content on that Piece of FUCK Operating System.

GODSPEED TO ALL THOSE WHO WISH TO USE THIS ASSNINE INTERFACE TO COMPUTE.

Why am I alive today to read about the cancer that is Windows 8, and iEverything up the ass!

/runs to spit shine my long neglected Commodore Amiga, and make love to it.