39 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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| 39. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 17:07 |
Beamer |
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Romney believes that cutting taxes on the super rich (e.g., 8 figure incomes) will "create jobs."
It's been proven over the last 30 years that this doesn't create jobs, it destroys them.
Can't vote for him for that reason alone. |
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| 38. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 17:01 |
mag |
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Prez wrote on Oct 1, 2012, 03:40:
Already tried it. The truth is I don't know enough about Romney to say exactly what he would do in each situation. Then there's the question of trying to guess what effect each action would have. The bottom line is that I am confident he couldn't possibly do any worse. He has at least proven that he can run a business with some measure of success, which is more management skills than Obama has ever shown me.
Again, vote for whomever you want. I'm not trying to talk anyone into or out of anything. Just sharing my (imperfect) rationalization for voting the way I am going to. Take it or leave it.
Agreed, vote for whomever you want, of course. Don't vote just because you think it's your duty, though, without knowing what you're voting for. It sounds like you don't like Obama (fair), but that you don't really care otherwise, except that you don't like voting for 3rd party candidates.
If you want to signal a 'no confidence' vote, then write in your own name or Cthulhu or Mickey Mouse or go 3rd party or whatever. If you think it is your duty to make sure Obama doesn't get elected at any cost, then vote for Romney. If you really think Romney is better, vote for Romney. If you think Obama stinks, but you don't know anything about Romney? Please research before you throw your vote at a you-know-not-what.
It reminds me of Clint Eastwood lambasting Invisible Obama for not closing Guantanamo and for starting (I guess he meant voting to start--along with nearly everyone else in Congress) and not ending the Afghanistan war, at the Republican convention. Since, you know. Those are the Republican positions.
The exact same thing goes for people on other side, too, of course. It's not your civic duty to vote and hold your nose. It's your civic duty to vote informed. Then hold your nose. |
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| 37. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 16:03 |
RollinThundr |
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Cutter wrote on Sep 30, 2012, 18:17:
xXBatmanXx wrote on Sep 30, 2012, 17:47:
The Half Elf wrote on Sep 30, 2012, 17:38:
Speaking of crystal meth....
I have a honest question:
In the 2012 Presidential Election, who do I vote for to screw me over the least?
Being gay I could give 2 shits less about gay marriage (like it to happen but not as a re-election platform), but at this point in time I don't want either of them as pres.
Was my position 4 years ago....we aren't in a better place that is for sure!
It would be a hell of a lot worse if it would have been McCain and his insane running mate. I think Obama has been a MAJOR letdown myself, but fuck if anyone thinks Romney is the answer. The guy who fires people for fun? Who thinks half the country isn't even entitled to live. Who made a fortune by destroying American companies and sending those jobs overseas? Who keeps the bulk of his assets in Swiss bank accounts and offshore accounts and won't let people see his tax returns? Whatever Obama's shortcomings he isn't remotely bad as all that. Give Romney the reigns and America will be a complete corporatocracy inside of 4 years and you serfs will be lucky to work in order to eat. Out of which of the two is the less evil it's pretty clear to me.
Dude hate to break it to you? But it's already a Corporateocracy and has been for a while now. So let's see, do we vote for the inexperienced community organizer who's broken every campaign promise he's made so far, pushed through an unconstitutional health care bill, and proposes a womb to grave idea of sucking on the govn tit. (see his Julia proposal) Basically the advocate for making government a bigger part of everyone's lives.
Or do we vote in someone with actual experience in running a company. Who won't run around the world "apologizing for America" like Obama has done, and who probally won't win a Nobel peace prize while being a President who has ordered the most Preditor drone strikes out of any US president in history?
I sure as shit ain't voting for Obozo. |
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| 36. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 11:12 |
nin |
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He inherited this mess from the previous administration
Please stop using that - it kills your whole point/argument.
Okay, it's 1AM here and I'm getting too tired to continue, but considering the Obama is cleaning up a mess he didn't make, things are looking pretty good: millions of new jobs created, GDP growing strong, stock market way up. Unemployment is not falling as quickly as hoped, but is still better than much of Europe, for example.
ugh.
Mess: See first point I made.
Million of new jobs? How about the ones destroyed? Unemployment is probably 2-5% higher, as people have QUIT looking for work and are no longer counted. Obama administration has made HORRIBLE choices in investments and deals for buddy companies and has actually hurt he "green" industry. He is just as guilty about pushing jobs overseas and across borders. He wants to actually KEEP illegals here that are doing jobs Americans can do.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2012/Pres/Maps/Sep15.html#item-4
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| 35. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 10:18 |
PHJF |
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Through what kind of fucked up prism does one have to view things to see such complex issues so simplistically black and white?
Religion? |
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| 34. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 10:00 |
Retired |
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Honestly, what it all comes down to, is in the near future (within 10 years) some VERY SERIOUS decisions will have to be made in regards to waste, gluttony, over spending, over paying, auditing, following the money, etc. They cannot continue to tax us at the rate they are and give the services they are giving.
Many programs will be eliminated while our taxes will increase significantly. We cannot sustain under the current spend rate.
I look forward to seeing who will step up and make those hard decisions, as you cannot continue to bail out failing organizations for the benefit of their friends. This happens ACROSS THE BOARD, and is not a party problem. It is an attitude, entitlement, greed problem that must be stopped. The best thing they could do is eliminate lobbying and remove the ridiculous amount of money received by politicians from "interested" parties, companies, etc.
Obama and their ilk (all politicians included) aren't interested in helping the populace. If they were they would quit pandering and just do something. They are CONTROLLED by big biz and the all mighty $ that gives them their home, cars, trips, hookers, blow, etc. They will not sabotage their PERSONAL interests for the American people.
Stuff makes me ill. |
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| 33. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 09:38 |
Retired |
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He inherited this mess from the previous administration
Please stop using that - it kills your whole point/argument.
Okay, it's 1AM here and I'm getting too tired to continue, but considering the Obama is cleaning up a mess he didn't make, things are looking pretty good: millions of new jobs created, GDP growing strong, stock market way up. Unemployment is not falling as quickly as hoped, but is still better than much of Europe, for example.
ugh.
Mess: See first point I made.
Million of new jobs? How about the ones destroyed? Unemployment is probably 2-5% higher, as people have QUIT looking for work and are no longer counted. Obama administration has made HORRIBLE choices in investments and deals for buddy companies and has actually hurt he "green" industry. He is just as guilty about pushing jobs overseas and across borders. He wants to actually KEEP illegals here that are doing jobs Americans can do.
GDP IS NOT GROWING STRONG. Please reference bls.gov, look at inflation trends, consumer confidence, warehouse orders for raw materials, etc. Adjust for seasonality, and it doesn't look good.
Stock market? Thing has been climbing like mad since we passed 8k. Please.
3rd world contries are currently better of than "Europe".
I get tired of some of the points of interest people throw out there as they hear it on their left wing pro O shows. Far left is just as bad as far right, but they just both yell and scream and point fingers.
Lets get past that and look at real data and real cause. Obama didn't do shit. He is a great speaker like a lot of Dems are, but he is the same as all previous. Big talker, little walker.
This comment was edited on Oct 1, 2012, 09:43. |
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| 32. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 07:33 |
jdreyer |
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Prez wrote on Oct 1, 2012, 03:45:
Sorry Cutter, I've heard it all, and while I wouldn't want to work for the guy from what I've heard, all of what you have posted is regurgitated leftist blogosphere jingoism or deliberate sensationalist misrepresentations of what actually is as far as I am concerned. The truth, as is usually the case, is somewhere in the middle far from the extremist views like what you hear on conservative media and the ones you stated. I guess I'm batshit insane, 'cause if I vote I'm voting Romney. Just don't think I'm cheering about it.
Prez, you say you've been listening to your wife's right wing radio shows, and hating their extremist views. Yet when you say, "I have to say the last 4 years have been disastrous" that's the exact thought the right wing radio shows are trying to implant in your mind. I beg you to examine the facts. Okay, Q & A time:
- Has it been a tough four years? Absolutely.
- Is it Obama's fault? Mostly no. He inherited this mess from the previous administration
- Is he doing enough about it? Compared to both the UK and the EU who are suffering the same recession we are, the US recovery is much better.
- When did things start to turn around? Within nine months of taking office, things started to turn around.
- Yeah, but Dems suck at growing the economy, right? Not true. This story from Fox business news of all places: Stocks and GDP outperform under Dems.
Okay, it's 1AM here and I'm getting too tired to continue, but considering the Obama is cleaning up a mess he didn't make, things are looking pretty good: millions of new jobs created, GDP growing strong, stock market way up. Unemployment is not falling as quickly as hoped, but is still better than much of Europe, for example.
Look, I don't think Obama is a god. I disagree with the man on so many issues. But he is intelligent and thoughtful and tries to make his decisions to benefit as many people as possible. And he's been the most prolific president in decades, measured as bills signed into law.
As gov of MASS, Romney accomplished very little except the healthcare law he now disavows. He stated economic plan if he wins election would introduce massive spending increases for the military, while cutting both taxes and social services, resulting in a massive debt increase. So much for small gov't and fiscal responsibility.
Prez, please look at the facts, the numbers, the charts, and evaluate them fairly. Don't be soaking up those right wing radio messages subliminally.
This comment was edited on Oct 1, 2012, 07:42. |
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Me: Waiting for the inevitable parody, Battleporn.
Drayth: Just don't Overwatch too much. |
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| 31. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 06:29 |
jdreyer |
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The Half Elf wrote on Sep 30, 2012, 19:38:
PHJF wrote on Sep 30, 2012, 19:15:
I have a honest question:
In the 2012 Presidential Election, who do I vote for to screw me over the least?
Ron Paul?
I would have voted Ron Paul 4 years ago if he was the Republican Candidate.
4 years ago was my first time voting, and Obama had a good sell. Plus McCain with Bat-Shit Crazy VP™ scared the shit out of me.
Obama FINALLY repealed Don't Ask Don't Tell after making it a major selling point in his campaign. As for Bible-Thumpers telling me I'm going to burn in hell, there is a quote I like to refer to.
'You know what they say right? You go to Heaven for the view and Hell for the company. I'll see you in hell'.
Heh. Okay. Well, if I havent' convinced you yet, I'll put it another way. The Dems are half elves. Half the time they'll vote for your interests, half the time against. It's not ideal, but at least there's slow forward progress. The Repubs are orcs. They only care about the few rich orcs around and make policies that only favor them. They'll never make any legislation favoring elves, half-elves, dwarves, or anyone else other than orcs. In fact, if they see a half elf, they're likely to rip its head off, eat its brain, and use it's skull for a shit pot. |
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Me: Waiting for the inevitable parody, Battleporn.
Drayth: Just don't Overwatch too much. |
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| 30. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 06:04 |
Cutter |
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Prez wrote on Oct 1, 2012, 03:45:
Sorry Cutter, I've heard it all, and while I wouldn't want to work for the guy from what I've heard, all of what you have posted is regurgitated leftist blogosphere jingoism or deliberate sensationalist misrepresentations of what actually is as far as I am concerned. The truth, as is usually the case, is somewhere in the middle far from the extremist views like what you hear on conservative media and the ones you stated. I guess I'm batshit insane, 'cause if I vote I'm voting Romney. Just don't think I'm cheering about it.
You have been reading the news haven't you? You have actually looked into Romney's past? He said 47% of the US population are little more than parasites and he doesn't represent "those" people. He enjoys firing people for sport, etc. The guy is his own worse enemy. He's said all that shit and much more. and yes, the guy was a corporate raider ala Gordon Gecko screwing over working people. That too is a fact. And the GOP bullshit about Obama not fixing the economy - the economy they wrecked - is their fault too. They've stonewalled the guy at every turn. All these facts are readily available and easily accessible should you choose to look them up. It is most certainly not some left-wing conspiracy. And where the hell does that come from anyway. Where are these left wing media pundits that are the equivalent of Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, Coulter, O'Reilly, etc. Where?
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| "Hey! Nobody calls Moe St. Cool a phony!" |
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| 29. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 05:35 |
The Half Elf |
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| Thank you all for the insight/feedback, and for keeping it civil. |
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| Using a steering wheel on a Burnout game is like using the Space Shuttle controls to fly a kite. |
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| 28. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 03:45 |
Prez |
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| Sorry Cutter, I've heard it all, and while I wouldn't want to work for the guy from what I've heard, all of what you have posted is regurgitated leftist blogosphere jingoism or deliberate sensationalist misrepresentations of what actually is as far as I am concerned. The truth, as is usually the case, is somewhere in the middle far from the extremist views like what you hear on conservative media and the ones you stated. I guess I'm batshit insane, 'cause if I vote I'm voting Romney. Just don't think I'm cheering about it. |
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi |
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| 27. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 03:42 |
Cutter |
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Prez wrote on Oct 1, 2012, 01:19:
Anyway, as far as who to vote for, I have to say the last 4 years have been disastrous, so I can't vote for Barry. That leaves 1) Romney, 2) an independent with no chance (Paul or Nader) or 3) abstaining. I don't like voting for the candidates with no chance in hell, and I don't like NOT voting considering it is really a civic duty, so it's looking like I'll be holding my nose and voting for Romney. What really pisses me off is that I'm forced between choosing between two people I wouldn't trust to handle my bank accounts much less the highest office in the land because of an electoral process so corrupt and so broken that it hardly even matters what I do in the end.
Dude, whatever Obama's shortcomings he isn't the guy that made a fortune by wrecking US companies and sending those jobs overseas. He doesn't hide his tax returns and the bulk of his fortune in offshore accounts and Swiss bank accounts. Thinks it's fun to fire people because he can. And that half the country should starve to death because they're parasites. You would have to be batshit insane to vote for the guy. At least Obama would piss on you if you were on fire.
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| "Hey! Nobody calls Moe St. Cool a phony!" |
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| 26. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 03:40 |
Prez |
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List (for yourself) the things about the past four years that you found to be disastrous. Ask yourself how Romney would have handled these things, vs. how Obama handled them. Consider whether these things would have hurt or helped the country.
Already tried it. The truth is I don't know enough about Romney to say exactly what he would do in each situation. Then there's the question of trying to guess what effect each action would have. The bottom line is that I am confident he couldn't possibly do any worse. He has at least proven that he can run a business with some measure of success, which is more management skills than Obama has ever shown me.
Again, vote for whomever you want. I'm not trying to talk anyone into or out of anything. Just sharing my (imperfect) rationalization for voting the way I am going to. Take it or leave it. |
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi |
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| 25. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 02:05 |
Bhruic |
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The Half Elf wrote on Sep 30, 2012, 17:38:
In the 2012 Presidential Election, who do I vote for to screw me over the least?
There's no real answer to that question. You've only got 2 viable parties, as no 3rd party candidate has a shot. But despite being vocally different on some issues, the 2 main parties operate the same way in lots of ways. So you end up having to choose between 2 parties that are both going to screw you over, just in slightly different fashions, or not voting - which just lets other people decide which of the 2 people are going to screw you over.
And they wonder why voter turnout is on the decline? |
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| 24. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 01:57 |
mag |
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Prez wrote on Oct 1, 2012, 01:19:
Anyway, as far as who to vote for, I have to say the last 4 years have been disastrous, so I can't vote for Barry. That leaves 1) Romney, 2) an independent with no chance (Paul or Nader) or 3) abstaining. I don't like voting for the candidates with no chance in hell, and I don't like NOT voting considering it is really a civic duty, so it's looking like I'll be holding my nose and voting for Romney.
List (for yourself) the things about the past four years that you found to be disastrous. Ask yourself how Romney would have handled these things, vs. how Obama handled them. Consider whether these things would have hurt or helped the country.
Obama's a disappointment to me, but most of my disappointment is related to surveillance, free speech, other civil rights issues, drug policy, toothless industry reform legislation, IP policy, etc. Unfortunately, the opposition holds mostly the same views regarding these things. |
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| 23. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 01:41 |
Retired |
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jacobvandy wrote on Oct 1, 2012, 01:38:
By choosing the "lesser of two evils," you are still consenting to the evil... which I would argue is MORALLY WRONG, forget the 'civic duty' nonsense. So long as everybody sees presidential elections in the same black & white fashion (literally this time, heh) as those hot-button issues people go batshit crazy over, it. Will. Never. Change. You are in no way "forced" to choose between those two imbeciles, you can make a statement and/or help facilitate change by "throwing your vote away" and supporting a third-party candidate. People stuck in the false dichotomy are just as bad for our democracy as people too apathetic to even know what's going on at all, IMO.
Yea, the media is owned by big biz, and they pick the candidates for us....sad sad.... |
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| 22. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 01:38 |
jacobvandy |
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| By choosing the "lesser of two evils," you are still consenting to the evil... which I would argue is MORALLY WRONG, forget the 'civic duty' nonsense. So long as everybody sees presidential elections in the same black & white fashion (literally this time, heh) as those hot-button issues people go batshit crazy over, it. Will. Never. Change. You are in no way "forced" to choose between those two imbeciles, you can make a statement and/or help facilitate change by "throwing your vote away" and supporting a third-party candidate. People stuck in the false dichotomy are just as bad for our democracy as people too apathetic to even know what's going on at all, IMO. |
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| 21. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 01:19 |
Prez |
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One thing I like about Bluesnews is that you see less of the usual "Obama is the Divine Savior/Obama is Satan incarnate" (depending on which team you are routing for) than you do elsewhere. Despite the general sense of overall left-of-center leaning feel that I get from here (not saying there's a bias, just that we seem to have more liberal members than conservative ones), there is a pretty good sense of reasonable post-partisanship present that is distinctly lacking in other forums/newsites.
My wife is a member of the Christian right and listens to conservative talk radio non-stop. I love her dearly but it's enough to drive you batshit insane. It's not the general sentiment of the hosts that bothers me - being a right-leaning libertarian I agree with a good deal of what they stand for - it's the non-stop, over-the-top demagoguery and insane rhetoric that makes me want to stick pointy thing in my ears. How do they come up with some of the looney shit they say? Through what kind of fucked up prism does one have to view things to see such complex issues so simplistically black and white? And the most pertinent question - how the hell is obnoxiously self-promoting, whiny drama queen Glenn Beck so popular?
Anyway, as far as who to vote for, I have to say the last 4 years have been disastrous, so I can't vote for Barry. That leaves 1) Romney, 2) an independent with no chance (Paul or Nader) or 3) abstaining. I don't like voting for the candidates with no chance in hell, and I don't like NOT voting considering it is really a civic duty, so it's looking like I'll be holding my nose and voting for Romney. What really pisses me off is that I'm forced between choosing between two people I wouldn't trust to handle my bank accounts much less the highest office in the land because of an electoral process so corrupt and so broken that it hardly even matters what I do in the end.
This comment was edited on Oct 1, 2012, 01:24. |
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi |
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| 20. |
Re: Out of the Blue |
Oct 1, 2012, 00:48 |
PHJF |
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| Yeah but Ron Paul will give you a reacharound while he fucks you in the ass. Who else can say that? |
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39 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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