Reactor wrote on Sep 28, 2012, 06:45:

Linux's biggest enemy isn't Microsoft - it's Linux.

So incredibly true.

There he is, with an ego the size of a planet....

Verno wrote on Sep 28, 2012, 08:38:

Muscular Beaver wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 21:15:
Those are closed OS. They always have been. How is it hypocrisy when you dont want an open OS to become closed? I mean... Windows 8 certification? For a game? WTF??
With that logic everyone is a hypocrite who uses anything closed and doesnt like Windows 8 because it tries to go the same way.

Yep exactly. Windows 8 is a step down a path that many of you will not like. People keep pointing to other closed platforms, well how badly do you want Windows to turn into that? Microsoft has been an iron fisted dicator with Xbox Live, I really don't want to see them have complete platform control from top to bottom - distro, certification, etc. When they can take a cut and control everything, are people really gullible enough to believe they won't try their hardest to push the market in that direct? Corporate workers are a stop gap to this scenario, not a permanent obstacle. Has there been any choice involved with the adoption of Metro? That's their attitude, remember it.

I don't really like where the future is heading - shitty app management, cut down features and shitloads of negative space. It's a huge step backwards considering all of the progress made in the past twenty years. I'm not buying Windows 8 as a result. There is certainly room for innovation in the market but Microsoft didn't do that here, they played me-too yet again.

Yep, in Windows 8 you have a choice whether to use Metro apps or not, not sure that is much of a choice in the first place but whatever. You can do that in Windows 8. For now.

This

Dev wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 23:45:

Silicon Avatar wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 23:23:
Nobody is going to use Metro UI exclusively on the PC. Most everybody will use the desktop and treat Metro like a full screen start button.

I highly doubt that. Most windows users are the kinda people who use word and web, and thats about it. That type of user won't even know that there's another mode besides metro.

They WILL know because every program that isn't made to be an app rips you out of the metro interface and plops you back to the regular desktop.

Muscular Beaver wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 21:15:
Those are closed OS. They always have been. How is it hypocrisy when you dont want an open OS to become closed? I mean... Windows 8 certification? For a game? WTF??
With that logic everyone is a hypocrite who uses anything closed and doesnt like Windows 8 because it tries to go the same way.

Yep exactly. Windows 8 is a step down a path that many of you will not like. People keep pointing to other closed platforms, well how badly do you want Windows to turn into that? Microsoft has been an iron fisted dicator with Xbox Live, I really don't want to see them have complete platform control from top to bottom - distro, certification, etc. When they can take a cut and control everything, are people really gullible enough to believe they won't try their hardest to push the market in that direct? Corporate workers are a stop gap to this scenario, not a permanent obstacle. Has there been any choice involved with the adoption of Metro? That's their attitude, remember it.

I don't really like where the future is heading - shitty app management, cut down features and shitloads of negative space. It's a huge step backwards considering all of the progress made in the past twenty years. I'm not buying Windows 8 as a result. There is certainly room for innovation in the market but Microsoft didn't do that here, they played me-too yet again.

Yep, in Windows 8 you have a choice whether to use Metro apps or not, not sure that is much of a choice in the first place but whatever. You can do that in Windows 8. For now.

This comment was edited on Sep 28, 2012, 09:11.

Dades wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 18:25:

Protesting anything negative about Microsoft apparently.

This is another one of those cases where I've said a lot of negative things about something, but I'm not as bitterly negative as everyone else here, so suddenly I'm protesting anything negative. In this very thread I've said I have no intention of getting Windows 8 and feel it's being thrown out there way too soon.

But I'm not going to sit here and act like Microsoft's goal is 100% closed gardens when their primary revenue stream would die if they did this. Especially given that:
1) They're the only ones serving that revenue stream, so it's easy money they'd lose overnight
2) They don't need to wall off. I don't get why everyone here is acting like this is a binary decision - wall off or not. It's incredibly simple for them to keep things as they are but add a walled-in webstore for people that want to use a walled-in webstore.

You guys keep talking about greed, but the simple fact is Apple and Google have proven that consumers love walled in webstores. Not us, but regular, idiot consumers. Yes, it is something Microsoft can and will monetize, but you're acting as if this isn't what consumers are choosing over and over and over. Stop thinking about how you use computers, think about how your parents or siblings do.
There's room to make both groups happy.

Linux's biggest enemy isn't Microsoft - it's Linux.

Flo wrote on Sep 28, 2012, 03:55:
Boot times are awesome with Win 8, even better than Win 7. That plus [WinKey]

• X] combination while ignoring metro gives me a pretty good experience.

Who the hell cares for boot times? Are you still shutting down your computer instead of hibernation or sleep? Hibernation and Sleep are as fast on Win 8 as on Win 7.

Boot times are awesome with Win 8, even better than Win 7. That plus [WinKey]

• X] combination while ignoring metro gives me a pretty good experience.
  Supporter of the "Chewbacca Defense"

Silicon Avatar wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 23:23:
Nobody is going to use Metro UI exclusively on the PC. Most everybody will use the desktop and treat Metro like a full screen start button.

I highly doubt that. Most windows users are the kinda people who use word and web, and thats about it. That type of user won't even know that there's another mode besides metro.

I'm running Win8 right now and I'm running all my Steam games like normal. Same FPS. Same everything. No special permissions required.

Nobody is going to use Metro UI exclusively on the PC. Most everybody will use the desktop and treat Metro like a full screen start button.

The only real complaint I could maybe see is that by default the Metro UI has a bunch of crap apps on it from MS that point to MS stores. Most gamers will dump those in the trash and set up their own to replace them.

Doombringer wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 20:39:
But this guy had no problem certifying Minecraft as an iOS app? Hypocrite much?

I love these people who give Microsoft crap for their pursuit of a closed platform, but give Apple a pass on A) iOS in total, B) the Mac App Store, and C) Gatekeeper.

Those are closed OS. They always have been. How is it hypocrisy when you dont want an open OS to become closed? I mean... Windows 8 certification? For a game? WTF??
With that logic everyone is a hypocrite who uses anything closed and doesnt like Windows 8 because it tries to go the same way.

This comment was edited on Sep 27, 2012, 21:23.

Parallax Abstraction wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 11:27:
*snip* ... but if you're going to make the open platforms argument but be on those two, it's hard not to look like a hypocrite.

No, no, no. To get on XBox you MUST go through Microsoft. To get your game even seen on Android, you have to be on the Android Market. I'd say maybe <0.5% of Android users routinely install apps not found in the market.

So when it comes to the PC, there are TONS of WELL ESTABLISHED avenues of distribution, the most prominent one for Minecraft is via a webpage, download and install. No silly Microsoft BS. There's absolutely no need for Minecraft to tag along with all the greedy corporations, and I'm glad Notch stands up against them!

Doombringer wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 20:39:
But this guy had no problem certifying Minecraft as an iOS app? Hypocrite much?

I love these people who give Microsoft crap for their pursuit of a closed platform, but give Apple a pass on A) iOS in total, B) the Mac App Store, and C) Gatekeeper.

I NEVER give Apple a pass for it. I despise Apple to the core of my being for it. And the last thing I want is for Microsoft to start pulling the same crap.

But this guy had no problem certifying Minecraft as an iOS app? Hypocrite much?

I love these people who give Microsoft crap for their pursuit of a closed platform, but give Apple a pass on A) iOS in total, B) the Mac App Store, and C) Gatekeeper.

The best workaround is to keep using windows 7 ( or xp )

Personally I have nothing against Windows hunting on Apple's territory... the Iphones were something to write home about when they came out because they were doing something new. Something that hadnt been done before. Now they can improve them every year but everybody's free ( even if not welcome) to play that game now and to even to win that game. As much as I despise MS's schemes to make more money. I get the feeling that what they are doing in the mobile sector will still be better than Apple. Apple's schemes to cash in and to control their system has been a brake to innovation. Look at Android.. No wonder the student ( the copycat) surpasses the Master ( the original) Now it's indeed pretty unlikely Windows will be at the head of innovation but I would still favour it over an Apple product. I just can't agree with a product that doesnt have standard ports without a good reason. I am no expert but I am just a customer. I have no antipathy for Microsoft's mobile efforts but I have the feeling their policy is going to ruin their efforts. It can't escape them that the only reason Apple could force an expensive mobile with a closed system down their customers' throats was they were bringing something new to the table and setting new standards. It doesnt sound to me that it is the case Where MS is concerned. And as for the desktop version..... Touchscreen interface may be the new cool kid in town but I have yet to see it beat the comfort of a mouse and keyboard... Ok this is going to be the cheapest iteration of MS windows ever but I am not sure the argument is good enough to weigh in their balance. Some lesson not learned with Vista. The only reason so many people buy their OS is the third party programmes that run on them. if someone could take all the games that run on Windows and make them linux-compatible-only overnight. Millions of people would spend their night trying to install Ubuntu.

Enough with this BS made up crap for reasons to justify not wanting Windows 8. All theses complaints about "closing" the system are completely invalid. It is only adding another method of acquiring content, in a more secure and controlled manner. NOTHING is being closed down!

You cannot install unsigned apps on RT/ARM for starters, this is not a made up thing, it is a reality. Forget that for a second, the microsoft store will not take submissions unless they are signed and certified. Non-WinRT apps can only be submitted in the form of a website link and will be only legacy supported going forward. If you don't think that non-WinRT apps are going to be as deprecated as possible then you aren't even trying, there is a reason Metro is the locked in startup option without even a toggle to disable.

To act like this is no big deal and call people paranoid when even Microsoft itself labels Windows 8 one of their biggest gambles ever is really dishonest. Many companies feel that closed software platforms at the future and Microsoft is increasingly taking such a stance. Windows 8 is the first step in that direction and that's why people are frustrated. Most people would be happy with Windows 8 if Microsoft would preserve user choice and options instead of continually extinguishing it to play catch up with Apple and Google.

It's not just about disliking Metro, it's a complicated issue. Development resources are going to go where the eyeballs are and if Metro/RT are the defacto standard by forced adoption then it will move in that direction. Corporate legacy will only hold up that process for so long. I agree that a walled garden is fine for the average user but if it means that one day I have to jailbreak my own operating system then I'm going to bitch on the internet about it whether you like it or not.

This comment was edited on Sep 27, 2012, 20:20.

Enahs wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 19:48:
Let us clear up a lot of ignorance (not an insult, that is not a bad word). And hopefully people, especially developers will stop being so dramatic about Windows 8.

Windows 8 does not magically make your existing Windows software not work. It works exactly the same as before. If it works in WIn7, it works in Win 8.

You do not have to get approval from Microsoft to install new software, or develop software for Windows 8. No certification required.


For the app store, which is a controlled environment, for he non power user, you have to have your application certified. This means a basic check to make sure it will function properly, and not steal all of your personal data. This is good for the average user.

This does not actually effect us that are power users and play games on our PC. We can still do it just as we have always done.

Enough with this BS made up crap for reasons to justify not wanting Windows 8. All theses complaints about "closing" the system are completely invalid. It is only adding another method of acquiring content, in a more secure and controlled manner. NOTHING is being closed down!

Oh yeah, thats why there are so many ways to push the user to the thing that was once called Metro. No Start button anymore, Windows always boots up in this abomination of several things, and other UI changes force you to use it.

Let us clear up a lot of ignorance (not an insult, that is not a bad word). And hopefully people, especially developers will stop being so dramatic about Windows 8.

Windows 8 does not magically make your existing Windows software not work. It works exactly the same as before. If it works in WIn7, it works in Win 8.

You do not have to get approval from Microsoft to install new software, or develop software for Windows 8. No certification required.


For the app store, which is a controlled environment, for he non power user, you have to have your application certified. This means a basic check to make sure it will function properly, and not steal all of your personal data. This is good for the average user.

This does not actually effect us that are power users and play games on our PC. We can still do it just as we have always done.

Enough with this BS made up crap for reasons to justify not wanting Windows 8. All theses complaints about "closing" the system are completely invalid. It is only adding another method of acquiring content, in a more secure and controlled manner. NOTHING is being closed down!

Windows 8 is actually quite good. It's stable and more responsive/smooth than Windows 7. I've had zero compatibility issues.

My only complaint is that more games/apps are metro-enabled so I can stop going to the traditional desktop.

Win8 is a different interface than previous versions of Windows. If you don't embrace that when you start using it then you're just going to end up spewing complaints all over the internet. However, if you actually give it a chance then you might actually like it.