Ouch, that's a pretty hefty reduction on Heartseeker...

Creston

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 10:40:
Ouch, that's a pretty hefty reduction on Heartseeker...

Creston

I'm not really concerned about this change. The issue I have with Thief is that its pretty fragile - classic glass cannon. Stealthing up and blinding is fine but there's no way to block anything.

Thief is all about mobility and tricks. PvE is easy enough with Pistol Whip and Black Powder. PvP is all about the Shortbow IMHO.

I think they did a pretty good job with the PvP and PvE balance in this although there is definitely work to be done on many things (engineer turrets, necro pets, etc).

For dual daggers in PvE, Death Blossom serves as your evasive skill with great damage to boot. You are fully evading through that animation. The hits aren't huge, but the bleeds are fantastic. My PvE offset is sword/pistol or pistol/pistol for the reasons Verno mentioned.

Verno wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 11:00:
Thief is all about mobility and tricks. PvE is easy enough with Pistol Whip and Black Powder. PvP is all about the Shortbow IMHO.

I think they did a pretty good job with the PvP and PvE balance in this although there is definitely work to be done on many things (engineer turrets, necro pets, etc).

Yes, Thief is about getting in quick, spike damage, then blind/ stealth/ dodge and back out again. It's just fragile if it gets caught.

And agreed, other classes need a bit more work to balance them. Necro especially.

My PvE is Dagger/Dagger for the reason you mentioned, and Sword/Pistol alternate.

Thief pve is all about malice, crits and early detonating cluster in group events. Even most warriors have a hard time getting loot from event mobs when I'm around.

You're welcome

Thief definitely needs some more burstiness or damage control though. I have a Warrior alt and damn, that shit just trucks through everything. My warrior has something like 19 different weapon combos, a ton of blast finishers and the health/armor to take on 5+ even level mobs at the same time. Great ranged options, both single target and AoE. Excellent defensive skills, not quite on par with Guardian but solid. Their support stuff is excellent too, shouts and banners are both viable in their own niches.

Thieves should be brought up to that same level, GW2 Warriors are so well balanced and designed that they should be the frame of reference for class design moving forward. I am having a hard time playing my Thief after leveling my Warrior alt, the line between alt and main continues to blur

Thief pve is all about malice, crits and early detonating cluster in group events

Not really much of a revelation and I find the Shortbow style of play is really boring in PvE. The auto-attack needs a bleed or something. When crit starts to level off at 50+ I find condition a much better focus for Thieves.

Thief is really fun to play in WvW though, great at picking off stragglers and people who over-extend.

This comment was edited on Sep 14, 2012, 11:39.

My main problem atm is that I want to play Thief, Elementalist and Warrior and can't decide which one to be main character, so all three are stuck under level 20.

I'm having a blast with all of them though.

Castle lord, bodyguards, and capture point for Stonemist Castle moved to the first floor.

Odd change. I wonder why they moved the Lord. I rather enjoyed having to fight up to the second floor. Defending was also a lot of fun due to the ramps.

Will there be a patch to remove the grind?

sauron wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 10:57:

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 10:40:
Ouch, that's a pretty hefty reduction on Heartseeker...

Creston

I'm not really concerned about this change. The issue I have with Thief is that its pretty fragile - classic glass cannon. Stealthing up and blinding is fine but there's no way to block anything.

Blind is the ultimate block. Except against Dredge, who are worthless piece of shit because they are immune against blind.

My problem with the heartseeker change is that it really was the only skill the thief has (in my dagger set up) to deal with multiple mobs. Get one down really quickly by spamming heartseeker, then deal with the other mob.

Yes, I could go double dagger, but ugh, everyone plays double dagger and just spams the stupid twirly-bleed thing. They don't do anything about that (not that I really care about it) but they adjust Heartseeker? *pouts*

Creston

This comment was edited on Sep 14, 2012, 11:50.

Verno wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 11:34:
T

Thief pve is all about malice, crits and early detonating cluster in group events

Not really much of a revelation and I find the Shortbow style of play is really boring in PvE. The auto-attack needs a bleed or something. When crit starts to level off at 50+ I find condition a much better focus for Thieves.

Thief is really fun to play in WvW though, great at picking off stragglers and people who over-extend.

Funny this is the first time I've posted it, no one does it and there's no gw2guru posts highlighting it.

You won't be doing condition dmg to get event loot kills in pve, especially once a warrior is around. Hell most people don't even know how loot actually works - I do.

Verno wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 11:34:
Thief definitely needs some more burstiness or damage control though. I have a Warrior alt and damn, that shit just trucks through everything. My warrior has something like 19 different weapon combos, a ton of blast finishers and the health/armor to take on 5+ even level mobs at the same time. Great ranged options, both single target and AoE. Excellent defensive skills, not quite on par with Guardian but solid. Their support stuff is excellent too, shouts and banners are both viable in their own niches.

Thieves should be brought up to that same level, GW2 Warriors are so well balanced and designed that they should be the frame of reference for class design moving forward. I am having a hard time playing my Thief after leveling my Warrior alt, the line between alt and main continues to blur

Thief pve is all about malice, crits and early detonating cluster in group events

Not really much of a revelation and I find the Shortbow style of play is really boring in PvE. The auto-attack needs a bleed or something. When crit starts to level off at 50+ I find condition a much better focus for Thieves.

Thief is really fun to play in WvW though, great at picking off stragglers and people who over-extend.

Yeah, it's annoying how basically every class can deal with 3+ mobs without too many issues, but a Thief has to struggle down to their last pip of health to survive. Especially when you're fighting Dredge or other varied mobs with melee and range. 5 melee mobs are cake, because Dancing Dagger and pistol will whittle them down, but a varied mob just ganks you. If one has AoE, you're just dead.

I don't have a lot of WvWvW experience, but I do agree it was fun there. You're the ultimate destroyer of runners and isolated pockets.

Creston

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 11:43:

sauron wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 10:57:

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 10:40:
Ouch, that's a pretty hefty reduction on Heartseeker...

Creston

I'm not really concerned about this change. The issue I have with Thief is that its pretty fragile - classic glass cannon. Stealthing up and blinding is fine but there's no way to block anything.

Blind is the ultimate block. Except against Dredge, who are worthless piece of shit because they are immune against blind.

My problem with the heartseeker change is that it really was the only skill the thief has (in dagger) to deal with multiple mobs. Get one down really quickly by spamming heartseeker, then deal with the other mob.

Creston

Area weakness combo field is the only true survival tool, especially in dungeons - another relatively unknown you can thank me for.

Axis wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 11:44:
Funny this is the first time I've posted it, no one does it and there's no gw2guru posts highlighting it.

You won't be doing condition dmg to get event loot kills in pve, especially once a warrior is around. Hell most people don't even know how loot actually works - I do.

Haha man all of your posts reek of legend in his own mind but whatever dude.

Because I'm 100% right and work damn hard finding shit out instead of reading other people's posts and regurgitating it.

And when you are doing exactly what I just said, you can pretend you didn't read it from me.

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 11:48:
Yeah, it's annoying how basically every class can deal with 3+ mobs without too many issues, but a Thief has to struggle down to their last pip of health to survive.

Thief gets really boned on condition heavy enemies especially but thankfully there are some support skills to alleviate that. I like the stealth design but feel like its missing something, can't quite put my finger on it.

Because I'm 100% right and work damn hard finding shit out instead of reading other people's posts and regurgitating it.

Riiiiight ok there fella

Axis wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 11:48:

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 11:43:

sauron wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 10:57:

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 10:40:
Ouch, that's a pretty hefty reduction on Heartseeker...

Creston

I'm not really concerned about this change. The issue I have with Thief is that its pretty fragile - classic glass cannon. Stealthing up and blinding is fine but there's no way to block anything.

Blind is the ultimate block. Except against Dredge, who are worthless piece of shit because they are immune against blind.

My problem with the heartseeker change is that it really was the only skill the thief has (in dagger) to deal with multiple mobs. Get one down really quickly by spamming heartseeker, then deal with the other mob.

Creston

Area weakness combo field is the only true survival tool, especially in dungeons - another relatively unknown you can thank me for.

Combo field? So I need someone else to help?

As for survival tool, eh, I have 3 different stealths. Four if I get the right Steal. It's not that hard staying alive, it's just hard to take down a group of varied mobs without going blasting through everything you have. For all how people keep saying Thief is about DPS, I never really seem to do as much burst damage as other classes, unless I use pistol whip.

Creston

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 11:53:

Axis wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 11:48:

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 11:43:

sauron wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 10:57:

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 10:40:
Ouch, that's a pretty hefty reduction on Heartseeker...

Creston

I'm not really concerned about this change. The issue I have with Thief is that its pretty fragile - classic glass cannon. Stealthing up and blinding is fine but there's no way to block anything.

Blind is the ultimate block. Except against Dredge, who are worthless piece of shit because they are immune against blind.

My problem with the heartseeker change is that it really was the only skill the thief has (in dagger) to deal with multiple mobs. Get one down really quickly by spamming heartseeker, then deal with the other mob.

Creston

Area weakness combo field is the only true survival tool, especially in dungeons - another relatively unknown you can thank me for.

Combo field? So I need someone else to help?

As for survival tool, eh, I have 3 different stealths. Four if I get the right Steal. It's not that hard staying alive, it's just hard to take down a group of varied mobs without going blasting through everything you have. For all how people keep saying Thief is about DPS, I never really seem to do as much burst damage as other classes, unless I use pistol whip.

Creston

See? Told ya most people have no idea of Thief's capabilities, no offense creston I'm just sick of giving information and ppl acting like they knew it all along.

Verno wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 11:53:

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 11:48:
Yeah, it's annoying how basically every class can deal with 3+ mobs without too many issues, but a Thief has to struggle down to their last pip of health to survive.

Thief gets really boned on condition heavy enemies especially but thankfully there are some support skills to alleviate that. I like the stealth design but feel like its missing something, can't quite put my finger on it.

I think it lasts too short. Even with the extra second added, four seconds is really not enough to get to safety, or to get into proper position. If I want to escape a battle completely, I always wind up having to burn two stealths to be able to do so.

I also think the stealth attacks should just cause more damage. A stealth pistol attack is pathetic, and a stealth dagger attack does do a good chunk of damage, but you wind up having to use both a skill for it, AND get into melee range as a glass cannon build. Same kinda goes for the sword.

It wasn't really until I started focusing on Blind as my main form of attack that I was able to start cutting through stuff without having to constantly just burn my entire arsenal.

I still love the thief, but I get a little envious every time I see a Guardian or Warrior or Elementalist come in, and just fucking blast away a mob it takes me 10+ seconds to kill...

Creston