Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 11:43:

sauron wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 10:57:

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 10:40:
Ouch, that's a pretty hefty reduction on Heartseeker...

Creston

I'm not really concerned about this change. The issue I have with Thief is that its pretty fragile - classic glass cannon. Stealthing up and blinding is fine but there's no way to block anything.

Blind is the ultimate block. Except against Dredge, who are worthless piece of shit because they are immune against blind.

My problem with the heartseeker change is that it really was the only skill the thief has (in dagger) to deal with multiple mobs. Get one down really quickly by spamming heartseeker, then deal with the other mob.

Creston

Area weakness combo field is the only true survival tool, especially in dungeons - another relatively unknown you can thank me for.

Verno wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 11:34:
Thief definitely needs some more burstiness or damage control though. I have a Warrior alt and damn, that shit just trucks through everything. My warrior has something like 19 different weapon combos, a ton of blast finishers and the health/armor to take on 5+ even level mobs at the same time. Great ranged options, both single target and AoE. Excellent defensive skills, not quite on par with Guardian but solid. Their support stuff is excellent too, shouts and banners are both viable in their own niches.

Thieves should be brought up to that same level, GW2 Warriors are so well balanced and designed that they should be the frame of reference for class design moving forward. I am having a hard time playing my Thief after leveling my Warrior alt, the line between alt and main continues to blur

Thief pve is all about malice, crits and early detonating cluster in group events

Not really much of a revelation and I find the Shortbow style of play is really boring in PvE. The auto-attack needs a bleed or something. When crit starts to level off at 50+ I find condition a much better focus for Thieves.

Thief is really fun to play in WvW though, great at picking off stragglers and people who over-extend.

Yeah, it's annoying how basically every class can deal with 3+ mobs without too many issues, but a Thief has to struggle down to their last pip of health to survive. Especially when you're fighting Dredge or other varied mobs with melee and range. 5 melee mobs are cake, because Dancing Dagger and pistol will whittle them down, but a varied mob just ganks you. If one has AoE, you're just dead.

I don't have a lot of WvWvW experience, but I do agree it was fun there. You're the ultimate destroyer of runners and isolated pockets.

Creston

Verno wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 11:34:
T

Thief pve is all about malice, crits and early detonating cluster in group events

Not really much of a revelation and I find the Shortbow style of play is really boring in PvE. The auto-attack needs a bleed or something. When crit starts to level off at 50+ I find condition a much better focus for Thieves.

Thief is really fun to play in WvW though, great at picking off stragglers and people who over-extend.

Funny this is the first time I've posted it, no one does it and there's no gw2guru posts highlighting it.

You won't be doing condition dmg to get event loot kills in pve, especially once a warrior is around. Hell most people don't even know how loot actually works - I do.

sauron wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 10:57:

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 10:40:
Ouch, that's a pretty hefty reduction on Heartseeker...

Creston

I'm not really concerned about this change. The issue I have with Thief is that its pretty fragile - classic glass cannon. Stealthing up and blinding is fine but there's no way to block anything.

Blind is the ultimate block. Except against Dredge, who are worthless piece of shit because they are immune against blind.

My problem with the heartseeker change is that it really was the only skill the thief has (in my dagger set up) to deal with multiple mobs. Get one down really quickly by spamming heartseeker, then deal with the other mob.

Yes, I could go double dagger, but ugh, everyone plays double dagger and just spams the stupid twirly-bleed thing. They don't do anything about that (not that I really care about it) but they adjust Heartseeker? *pouts*

Creston

This comment was edited on Sep 14, 2012, 11:50.

Will there be a patch to remove the grind?

Castle lord, bodyguards, and capture point for Stonemist Castle moved to the first floor.

Odd change. I wonder why they moved the Lord. I rather enjoyed having to fight up to the second floor. Defending was also a lot of fun due to the ramps.

My main problem atm is that I want to play Thief, Elementalist and Warrior and can't decide which one to be main character, so all three are stuck under level 20.

I'm having a blast with all of them though.

Thief definitely needs some more burstiness or damage control though. I have a Warrior alt and damn, that shit just trucks through everything. My warrior has something like 19 different weapon combos, a ton of blast finishers and the health/armor to take on 5+ even level mobs at the same time. Great ranged options, both single target and AoE. Excellent defensive skills, not quite on par with Guardian but solid. Their support stuff is excellent too, shouts and banners are both viable in their own niches.

Thieves should be brought up to that same level, GW2 Warriors are so well balanced and designed that they should be the frame of reference for class design moving forward. I am having a hard time playing my Thief after leveling my Warrior alt, the line between alt and main continues to blur

Thief pve is all about malice, crits and early detonating cluster in group events

Not really much of a revelation and I find the Shortbow style of play is really boring in PvE. The auto-attack needs a bleed or something. When crit starts to level off at 50+ I find condition a much better focus for Thieves.

Thief is really fun to play in WvW though, great at picking off stragglers and people who over-extend.

This comment was edited on Sep 14, 2012, 11:39.

Thief pve is all about malice, crits and early detonating cluster in group events. Even most warriors have a hard time getting loot from event mobs when I'm around.

You're welcome

Verno wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 11:00:
Thief is all about mobility and tricks. PvE is easy enough with Pistol Whip and Black Powder. PvP is all about the Shortbow IMHO.

I think they did a pretty good job with the PvP and PvE balance in this although there is definitely work to be done on many things (engineer turrets, necro pets, etc).

Yes, Thief is about getting in quick, spike damage, then blind/ stealth/ dodge and back out again. It's just fragile if it gets caught.

And agreed, other classes need a bit more work to balance them. Necro especially.

My PvE is Dagger/Dagger for the reason you mentioned, and Sword/Pistol alternate.

For dual daggers in PvE, Death Blossom serves as your evasive skill with great damage to boot. You are fully evading through that animation. The hits aren't huge, but the bleeds are fantastic. My PvE offset is sword/pistol or pistol/pistol for the reasons Verno mentioned.

Thief is all about mobility and tricks. PvE is easy enough with Pistol Whip and Black Powder. PvP is all about the Shortbow IMHO.

I think they did a pretty good job with the PvP and PvE balance in this although there is definitely work to be done on many things (engineer turrets, necro pets, etc).

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 10:40:
Ouch, that's a pretty hefty reduction on Heartseeker...

Creston

I'm not really concerned about this change. The issue I have with Thief is that its pretty fragile - classic glass cannon. Stealthing up and blinding is fine but there's no way to block anything.

Ouch, that's a pretty hefty reduction on Heartseeker...

Creston