Axis wrote on Sep 15, 2012, 12:15:
Well I kept it going on everything, even on bosses.

Hands down the most useful thing we bring to the table, but I won't try to convince you

Oh, it's useful enough to keep a shortbow with me for bosses.

Creston

Well I kept it going on everything, even on bosses.

Hands down the most useful thing we bring to the table, but I won't try to convince you

Axis wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 17:41:
They may have stealth patched that, I'll check tonight -- I haven't logged in a couple days.

It's not a bug, its exactly the way it's supposed to work. It's just a bit too effective if you set it up correctly. It's also twice as fast, forgot to mention that as it's part of the OP'dness.

The Superior fire sigil has a 30% chance per crit to fire (5 second cd), and is an aoe fire damaging all mobs in it's area. It's the edge needed to out dmg warriors for event drops.

I think they did patch it, because no matter what I do, I can't get the weakness to stack other than firing the combo over again. The Cluster still hits three times if you time it right, but weakness only gets applied once.

It's a fun combo to use against veterans and champions, but other than them I don't really see any point in going through the effort for an effect that lasts 5 seconds.

Creston

NegaDeath wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 12:48:
Kudos to Travellian and NewMaxx for the info links without drama. As a dirty heathen newb I didn't understand how the combos worked. I had heard my guy make some verbal cues about them succeeding (by happy accident) and I saw the combo properties on my ability infocards but didn't know how they fit together. I've done purely PvE thus far and it hadn't really been necessary yet.

Ditto. GW2 is the first MMO I've enjoyed since Ultima Online so I am pretty green on the mechanics, and a couple helpful posts here helped my understanding.. but I think ego is getting bit in the way of some peoples "helpfulness". Whatever though, I havent read any guides, havent scoured the wiki, havent listened to podcasts or reviews.. just hopped in the game to have a fun experience with discovery and exploration. The mechanics will pan out and be learned along the way, I dont need to be a "pro" to enjoy this or have 100% efficiency at everything I do.. in fact that all sounds rather BORING to me so I'll just let the OCD's handle it.

Loving the game so far though =)

Axis wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 17:41:
They may have stealth patched that, I'll check tonight -- I haven't logged in a couple days.

It's not a bug, its exactly the way it's supposed to work. It's just a bit too effective if you set it up correctly. It's also twice as fast, forgot to mention that as it's part of the OP'dness.

The Superior fire sigil has a 30% chance per crit to fire (5 second cd), and is an aoe fire damaging all mobs in it's area. It's the edge needed to out dmg warriors for event drops.

Awesome, thanks. Will certainly try this and add the fire sigil as well.

Love Ranger and Elementalist so far. Love the little I have played of Engineer.

I'm really enjoying the Guardian so far. The staff in particular is a lot of fun.

They may have stealth patched that, I'll check tonight -- I haven't logged in a couple days.

It's not a bug, its exactly the way it's supposed to work. It's just a bit too effective if you set it up correctly. It's also twice as fast, forgot to mention that as it's part of the OP'dness.

The Superior fire sigil has a 30% chance per crit to fire (5 second cd), and is an aoe fire damaging all mobs in it's area. It's the edge needed to out dmg warriors for event drops.

Axis wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 17:11:

sauron wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 15:33:

Axis wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 14:08:
Yes as I mentioned you throw down the Choking Gas followed by the Cluster bomb and everything in the AOE gets weakness (50% less damage 50% of the time) and lasts about 20 seconds per application on all mobs up to bosses.

It's extremely fast, and does huge dps to boot. Its hands down the most effective mitigation in the game, and one of if not the most useful tool in our belts.

Oh score! I didn't know that one either. I'm definitely bringing a shortbow as alt weapon on my Thief as well!

Glad to help Sauron!

I mentioned earlier about pre-detonation of cluster bomb, I'll explain it in detail now since it's so OP compared to other thief options in the DPS realm and few know how to make it so it is OP.

When you throw down a cluster bomb, it does 1 hit to every mob in the area and applies 1 condition to each mob and you get 1 health tick per mob hit (malice heal skill).

When you explode early in the middle of a fight it splits into 3 shards. Each shard hits every mob in the area, applies 1 condition to each mob and you get 1 health tick per mob hit.

What this means is you get the same amount of total shard damage, but 3x the amount of conditions, heals, and crit counts for every mob in the area. When you throw on a fire sigil it's wipeout time and only well-timed warriors can beat you for loot drops in PvE.

There's no need to aim, just go in the middle of the mobs and repeatedly hit #2 and you wipe stuff out faster than any other class.

I have a double dagger setup, one with precision and one with power stacks depending on what I'm fighting I'll build 25 stacks of one of them, throw on the shortbow and faceroll everything.

PvE loot work like this: in event mob spawns there's a high percentage of only one drop, it goes to whoever has the highest damage on the mob. With world spawned mobs and dungeons, there's a better percentage for everyone who damages the mob to get a drop. This is so important because it's really the only way to make decent cash, and warriors easily outdo every class most of the time.

So in areas like pertinent and trolls in frost, I found the only way to efficiently play is with shortbow. Just so happens it's also my go-to for pvp - I've found no one else doing what I'm doing, and if I don't get shut down right away I can usually destroy small groups of any mobs or players quickly and efficiently. I usually never go dagger 1v1. So expect a nerf eventually, I've staved it off as long as I can but I'm not playing much anymore so have at it!

Creston, the 5 seconds is on bosses only, and easily maintainable and suggested the entire fight with init ticks.. all other mobs its 20 seconds. Try what I just mentioned, see how much more you enjoy your thief.

Well, I tried it on mobs, and it just applies 5 seconds... But I wasn't using the cluster trick. I'll try that tonight. Thanks for the info.

It does sound like a bug, but fuck it, I'll use that as long as I can.

What do you mean when you say throw on a fire sigil? You mean upgrade the shortbow with fire damage?

Creston

sauron wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 15:33:

Axis wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 14:08:
Yes as I mentioned you throw down the Choking Gas followed by the Cluster bomb and everything in the AOE gets weakness (50% less damage 50% of the time) and lasts about 20 seconds per application on all mobs up to bosses.

It's extremely fast, and does huge dps to boot. Its hands down the most effective mitigation in the game, and one of if not the most useful tool in our belts.

Oh score! I didn't know that one either. I'm definitely bringing a shortbow as alt weapon on my Thief as well!

Glad to help Sauron!

I mentioned earlier about pre-detonation of cluster bomb, I'll explain it in detail now since it's so OP compared to other thief options in the DPS realm and few know how to make it so it is OP.

When you throw down a cluster bomb, it does 1 hit to every mob in the area and applies 1 condition to each mob and you get 1 health tick per mob hit (malice heal skill).

When you explode early in the middle of a fight it splits into 3 shards. Each shard hits every mob in the area, applies 1 condition to each mob and you get 1 health tick per mob hit.

What this means is you get the same amount of total shard damage, but 3x the amount of conditions, heals, and crit counts for every mob in the area. When you throw on a fire sigil it's wipeout time and only well-timed warriors can beat you for loot drops in PvE.

There's no need to aim, just go in the middle of the mobs and repeatedly hit #2 and you wipe stuff out faster than any other class.

I have a double dagger setup, one with precision and one with power stacks depending on what I'm fighting I'll build 25 stacks of one of them, throw on the shortbow and faceroll everything.

PvE loot work like this: in event mob spawns there's a high percentage of only one drop, it goes to whoever has the highest damage on the mob. With world spawned mobs and dungeons, there's a better percentage for everyone who damages the mob to get a drop. This is so important because it's really the only way to make decent cash, and warriors easily outdo every class most of the time.

So in areas like pertinent and trolls in frost, I found the only way to efficiently play is with shortbow. Just so happens it's also my go-to for pvp - I've found no one else doing what I'm doing, and if I don't get shut down right away I can usually destroy small groups of any mobs or players quickly and efficiently. I usually never go dagger 1v1. So expect a nerf eventually, I've staved it off as long as I can but I'm not playing much anymore so have at it!

Creston, the 5 seconds is on bosses only, and easily maintainable and suggested the entire fight with init ticks.. all other mobs its 20 seconds. Try what I just mentioned, see how much more you enjoy your thief.

sauron wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 15:33:

Axis wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 14:08:
Yes as I mentioned you throw down the Choking Gas followed by the Cluster bomb and everything in the AOE gets weakness (50% less damage 50% of the time) and lasts about 20 seconds per application on all mobs up to bosses.

It's extremely fast, and does huge dps to boot. Its hands down the most effective mitigation in the game, and one of if not the most useful tool in our belts.

Oh score! I didn't know that one either. I'm definitely bringing a shortbow as alt weapon on my Thief as well!

Well, I tried it for awhile, and it does work, but it doesn't last 20 seconds. I don't know if that's because I don't spec for conditions or whatever, but it lasts... right around 5 seconds. For that you need to do two attacks in fairly short range, and then by the time they've finally reached you the weakness is already gone again... I tried re-applying it, but that's quite a chore, and the stack really doesn't get much better. I think the longest I got it to stick was right around 8 seconds.

Duration of things really is a big gripe for GW2 (at least for me.) Everything just lasts like 2 and 3 seconds, so there's barely even any point in applying it. Yes, I know it stacks, so if 30 people are ganking a boss, those stacks add up like crazy, but when you play by yourself it seems rather pointless.

It's also quite shitty that when I daze something it lasts for all of a whole frakking SECOND, but when a Dredge dazes me, I'm standing there wobbling like an idiot for 5 seconds.

Urgh.

Anyway, I'm ready to play something new. My Thief is starting to get a little boring, and though I'm close to 80 (well... 62), I just need some fresh air. What's a fun class to play that rocks? I hear the Guardians are pretty awesome?

Creston

Axis wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 14:08:
Yes as I mentioned you throw down the Choking Gas followed by the Cluster bomb and everything in the AOE gets weakness (50% less damage 50% of the time) and lasts about 20 seconds per application on all mobs up to bosses.

It's extremely fast, and does huge dps to boot. Its hands down the most effective mitigation in the game, and one of if not the most useful tool in our belts.

Oh score! I didn't know that one either. I'm definitely bringing a shortbow as alt weapon on my Thief as well!

They need to fix the Hammer auto-attack third chain hit with Guardians too at some point, that shit is silly. It takes a good 3 seconds to fire, it misses often enough in PvE, let alone PvP with movement. They've been talking about doing it since the BWEs. It almost ruins an otherwise good weapon/skill loadout for that class.

Ranger

More fixes to pet commands and AI.

You mean that my F2 command might actually go off when I press it? Like you said it should 2 or 3 patches ago? I don't believe you. If I don't hit F2 at least 3 or 4 times, it mostly doesn't even go off. Even with jamming on the button, it takes an auto attack or two to go off.

I'd like a heel button too. Damn wolf runs 50 yards away and attacks on his own a lot.

Dades wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 14:21:

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 13:55:
I knew about combos, but I will readily admit I didn't know you could combo with yourself. Though since you'd need to get two skills specifically to line up this one combo, and usually the results last a few seconds, I do wonder if it's really all that useful?

Is this something you could set up by yourself to apply to multiple enemies? If so, then that'd be pretty awesome.

Thanks to Verno and NewMaxx who also linked to the same article(s)!

Creston

It depends on the situation, many of them aren't worth the setup in solo PVE content. Like NewMaxx and Verno mentioned you should learn them for grouping purposes. Some of the dungeons are really rough if people just trait for DPS and don't use combos, cross-class or self initiated. Things like Blind and Weakness can make a huge difference in group survivability, they help even out incoming damage which is very high in dungeons.

Yeah, but I was already a condition-heavy build (mostly blind, actually, but that works just as well to protect me as it does to protect someone else.) I've never found Thief to be great at actually doing damage, so I fairly quickly shifted to conditions and support. Thrill of the Crime gives three boons to me and my party, I have this one ability (forget the name) that rips two boons from a boss and gives it to my party members, etc.

I agree that in solo PvE it really doesn't matter all that much, since most everything dies quickly enough anyway, but against bosses that's (the area weakness) a pretty killer combo effect to set up.

Creston

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 13:55:
I knew about combos, but I will readily admit I didn't know you could combo with yourself. Though since you'd need to get two skills specifically to line up this one combo, and usually the results last a few seconds, I do wonder if it's really all that useful?

Is this something you could set up by yourself to apply to multiple enemies? If so, then that'd be pretty awesome.

Thanks to Verno and NewMaxx who also linked to the same article(s)!

Creston

It depends on the situation, many of them aren't worth the setup in solo PVE content. Like NewMaxx and Verno mentioned you should learn them for grouping purposes. Some of the dungeons are really rough if people just trait for DPS and don't use combos, cross-class or self initiated. Things like Blind and Weakness can make a huge difference in group survivability, they help even out incoming damage which is very high in dungeons.

Axis wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 14:08:

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 13:55:

Trevellian wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 12:41:

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 12:11:
2) I ask "Combo Field? So I need someone else to help?"

The information is not as difficult to find as some people would like you to believe.

http://www.shadowrefuge.com/2012/06/cross-profession-combos-closer-look.html

It isn't some mystic rare knowledge.

I knew about combos, but I will readily admit I didn't know you could combo with yourself. Though since you'd need to get two skills specifically to line up this one combo, and usually the results last a few seconds, I do wonder if it's really all that useful?

Is this something you could set up by yourself to apply to multiple enemies? If so, then that'd be pretty awesome.

Thanks to Verno and NewMaxx who also linked to the same article(s)!

Creston

Yes as I mentioned you throw down the Choking Gas followed by the Cluster bomb and everything in the AOE gets weakness (50% less damage 50% of the time) and lasts about 20 seconds per application on all mobs up to bosses.

It's extremely fast, and does huge dps to boot. Its hands down the most effective mitigation in the game, and one of if not the most useful tool in our belts.

Alright, that sounds pretty sweet. I guess I have to start bringing a shortbow into battle. Will be tough to give up my pistol/dagger, but it can't in any way match that.

Thanks for sharing the info.

Creston

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 13:55:

Trevellian wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 12:41:

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 12:11:
2) I ask "Combo Field? So I need someone else to help?"

The information is not as difficult to find as some people would like you to believe.

http://www.shadowrefuge.com/2012/06/cross-profession-combos-closer-look.html

It isn't some mystic rare knowledge.

I knew about combos, but I will readily admit I didn't know you could combo with yourself. Though since you'd need to get two skills specifically to line up this one combo, and usually the results last a few seconds, I do wonder if it's really all that useful?

Is this something you could set up by yourself to apply to multiple enemies? If so, then that'd be pretty awesome.

Thanks to Verno and NewMaxx who also linked to the same article(s)!

Creston

Yes as I mentioned you throw down the Choking Gas followed by the Cluster bomb and everything in the AOE gets weakness (50% less damage 50% of the time) and lasts about 20 seconds per application on all mobs up to bosses.

It's extremely fast, and does huge dps to boot. Its hands down the most effective mitigation in the game, and one of if not the most useful tool in our belts.

Trevellian wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 12:41:

Creston wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 12:11:
2) I ask "Combo Field? So I need someone else to help?"

The information is not as difficult to find as some people would like you to believe.

http://www.shadowrefuge.com/2012/06/cross-profession-combos-closer-look.html

It isn't some mystic rare knowledge.

I knew about combos, but I will readily admit I didn't know you could combo with yourself. Though since you'd need to get two skills specifically to line up this one combo, and usually the results last a few seconds, I do wonder if it's really all that useful?

Is this something you could set up by yourself to apply to multiple enemies? If so, then that'd be pretty awesome.

Thanks to Verno and NewMaxx who also linked to the same article(s)!

Creston

Trevellian wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 13:19:
Since I use Greatswords it's not too bad. I use the Greatsword Training trait in Domination (Reduces all 2H Ability cooldowns by 20%)plus the 5 trait point Illusionists Celerity (20% Illusion ability cooldown reduction) in Illusion. So 6 and 1/2 second cooldown on Mirror Blade and 16 second cooldown on Phantasmal Berserker which makes it very very easy to have 2 Illusions and the Phantasm on a target before it dies, in which case I usually just use Mind Wrack to finish their target off and damage anything else I'm fighting, and then quickly get all 3 Illusions up on the next target... Mind Wrack again... rinse repeat.

Cool thanks for the info, I'll give that a shot on the weekend then when I'm messing around with alts. The Mesmer trait lines are a bit daunting to be honest, its hard to get a feel for what builds will be effective so I guess I'll just experiment heavily.