sauron wrote on Sep 13, 2012, 11:40:
So many dopes. :P

Yeah. My wife and I had no tolerance for long queue times in WoW so she'd be a tank and I'd be a healer or vice versa and we'd basically troll through the random DPS we got. Whenever we found someone that wasn't high, drunk or a failure of genetics we'd latch onto them like no tomorrow a run a few more instances with them.

ledhead1969 wrote on Sep 13, 2012, 11:54:
Rift is not a failure by any stretch. It is the best WoW MMO out, besting even WoW.

What?

It's strange feeling being in a game where you can hit max cap and never leave the n00b zone. The only way you could not hit cap in this game, is to not play.

Rift is not a failure by any stretch. It is the best WoW MMO out, besting even WoW.

Verno I get ya - just listening to some people talk about GW2 its like it cooks them meals and brushes their teeth or something - to me it's just a blast to be on a siege weapon and kill like 10 people in one shot half a map away who have NO IDEA what just happened .... omg I'm still cackling

i have played dungeons not many mind you and they were very different but in no way should anyone expect a year from now to find 6 tiers of dugeons in GW2 it's not that game

SimplyMonk wrote on Sep 13, 2012, 11:35:
You get a good healer, competent tank and non-retarded DPS and you are done.

I love the phrasing on that - I think at least half of the DPS guys I knew in FFXI would fail that test. So many dopes.

I think in terms of IQ it was support>tank>healer>>>>>>>>>>>DPS.

Verno wrote on Sep 13, 2012, 11:18:
Holy trinity creates a ludicrous inter-dependency and quite frankly has been done to death, there was room for innovation here and they achieved it.

This is most likely the sole reason the traditional MMO model is no longer appealing to me. You get a good healer, competent tank and non-retarded DPS and you are done. The game is over. Yeah, it feels good to succeed at a dungeon a few times because you know when to interrupt or you know that you have to press the shiny red button at the right time, but that gets old fast. Even games like Rift where you could fill multiple roles in the Trinity with one class just made it so you felt less encouraged to make alts.

It all become too blatantly a game a numbers at that point. At least GW2 for now is distracting me by attacking the issue from a different angle.

Gnolt wrote on Sep 13, 2012, 11:27:
being an old guy and having played MMOs since MUDs I can tell you that I loved vanilla wow world pvp - rolled on a pvp server and really enjoyed the action in southshore and ashenvale - then they came out with battlegrounds and world pvp just died - well I'm having that kind of fun again with GW2 which I never expected having played some GW1 but now that I have its really easy for me to understand why people are buying it

if you like wow AND you like dungeon grinding dont bother with GW2

Well I think there's more to WoW than just dungeon grinding but I agree in general it's a game for grinders.

I have many fond memories of WoW but most are rooted in the social aspect, not really the gameplay itself. What kept WoW going for so long was the constant state of upheaval - changing gear and game systems kept people going when the actual gameplay had otherwise become rote. Learning the raid bosses was kinda fun although eventually they hit diminishing returns on intricate designs there. It brought a lot to the genre, things used to be really spartan and annoying but MMOs in general have caught up quite a bit.

Anyways enough about WoW, it's had its time in the sun.

Awesome. I hope they sell 30 million more.

However, I did get sorely aggravated last night, again in my personal storyline. I'm following the Order of Whispers path, and despite the fact that they're supposed to be spies, my mission just consisted of "go murder a fort full of undead." So much for being sneaky, I guess.

In any case, while the normal undead really weren't an issue, as dessert the game served up three of something called "Undead Abomination", which have an amusing power called "Unstoppable." These things are the size of Jotuns, they move about 2-3 times faster than my already fast thief, they hit for approximately 70% of my health in one blow, oh, and when they hit you you are knocked prone.

Also, their unstoppable power makes them immune to things like daze and cripple (which are two of my three primary weapons, along with blind.)

So... yay? I could kill two of them by spamming Dancing Dagger along with the Thieves Guild and using up all my stealths, and the third one would just waltz right on through. He'd swing, I'd dodge. Before my dodge was even over, he'd be right back on top of me and already swinging. So you dodge one extra time, then you're out of energy. He hits you, you go prone, and while you're not even back up yet, he hits you again and you're dead.

So much fun! :\

I finally managed to kill him because I got the fucker stuck on a bit of scenery in the castle, then spent about three minutes firing my not-inconsiderable pistol at him.

What the FUCK is up with these retarded battles in this personal storyline??????

Creston

Very pool sales, must be piracy. Time to shut down the studio and end the project

being an old guy and having played MMOs since MUDs I can tell you that I loved vanilla wow world pvp - rolled on a pvp server and really enjoyed the action in southshore and ashenvale - then they came out with battlegrounds and world pvp just died - well I'm having that kind of fun again with GW2 which I never expected having played some GW1 but now that I have its really easy for me to understand why people are buying it

if you like wow AND you like dungeon grinding dont bother with GW2

LgFriess wrote on Sep 13, 2012, 11:13:

Quinn wrote on Sep 13, 2012, 11:02:

Trevellian wrote on Sep 13, 2012, 10:03:
I cannot apprehend why one would chose GW2's style over WoW's,

And I'm exactly the opposite. After playing WoW from beta to Cata, I'd rather jab a pen into my eyeball then log into WoW at this point. Obviously for many, many years I enjoyed WoW. It was a GREAT game for a MMORPG noob like myself. But my goodness, it's so old and stale now. Then SWTOR, ugh, horrible WoW ripoff but not as good.

GW2, some fresh, new ideas, new, well crafted, explorable world, no subscription, no pressure. Will I play it all those years I played WoW? Depends on xpacs, but doubtful. The thing is, right NOW, I actually look forward to logging in and playing. Can't say that about WoW now for years.

I can't say that's really... fair, if you will... to WoW.

Of course one gets sick and tired of any game at some point. However, I think you're being dishonest to yourself when you say you're the exact opposite in that you can't apprehend why one would chose WoW's style over GW2's. After all, you've enjoyed it from the BETA TO CATA! That's allot of freaking years, brother. To me, without wanting to put words in your mouth, it sounds like you now prefer GW2 over WoW due to nothing but the... well, change of pace factor.

I agree with you WHOLEHEARTEDLY that WoW is getting old, indeed. But the essential system on which its success is built is one that isn't getting old and can only be improved upon. Considering the fact you've played it since vanilla up to lately makes the question whether you agree with me on the matter or not a rhetorical one indeed.

I cannot apprehend why one would chose GW2's style over WoW's, because to me "strength in sinergy" is better than "strength in numbers (and chaos?)" by definition. Here I'm of course referring to the holy trinity in WoW and lack thereof in GW2. In the week I tried GW2, I ended up prefering solo play over the visual mess that comes with the big "dynamic events". But one does not really play MMO's for its lukewarm singleplayer experience...

It's all about skill and self-sufficiency. Holy trinity creates a ludicrous inter-dependency and quite frankly has been done to death, there was room for innovation here and they achieved it. It takes some adjustment but creates much better players and more dynamic gameplay too. Besides, once you delve deeper into the gameplay you realize that those support concepts still exist for the thinking player, they just need to experiment and use them. Combo fields and finishers achieve the same things and feel much more rewarding when you pull them off as opposed to pushing a big heal everyone butan or make mob hit me thing.

As for the event comment, that's only really the low level areas where everything is a bit of a mishmash. I've found the Guild Wars singleplayer experience fairly interesting so far, the personal story stuff is a nice touch and they certainly didn't skimp on the difficulty either.

Quinn wrote on Sep 13, 2012, 11:02:
I cannot apprehend why one would chose GW2's style over WoW's, because to me "strength in sinergy" is better than "strength in numbers (and chaos?)" by definition.

I can understand that - I played FFXI for almost 9 years and raided as support and healing classes extensively. When structured MMOs work, the gameplay rocks really hard.

However, I think GW2 can match that and in addition it has a lot for many different types of player - it is more inclusive. Yes, it does cater to casual zerg players, lets them run around and have fun taking part in random dynamic events. But I think it also has the depth needed for organized players with committed guilds to enjoy it. The potential for synergy is there, but the ways players can interact are much more complicated and need more communication.

I actually think that organized dungeon raids with good players and Teamspeak will be very interesting in GW2, could get very sophisticated. FFXI/WoW have clear designations and signposts, the holy trinity etc - well tried and tested but quite simple. In GW2 it's up to good players to figure out stuff on the fly and that's really exciting.

Basically, the strength in synergy is there but the ways in which players can achieve synergy are much more varied.

Quinn wrote on Sep 13, 2012, 11:02:

Trevellian wrote on Sep 13, 2012, 10:03:
I cannot apprehend why one would chose GW2's style over WoW's,

And I'm exactly the opposite. After playing WoW from beta to Cata, I'd rather jab a pen into my eyeball then log into WoW at this point. Obviously for many, many years I enjoyed WoW. It was a GREAT game for a MMORPG noob like myself. But my goodness, it's so old and stale now. Then SWTOR, ugh, horrible WoW ripoff but not as good.

GW2, some fresh, new ideas, new, well crafted, explorable world, no subscription, no pressure. Will I play it all those years I played WoW? Depends on xpacs, but doubtful. The thing is, right NOW, I actually look forward to logging in and playing. Can't say that about WoW now for years.

Trevellian wrote on Sep 13, 2012, 10:03:
Only 2 Million? I would have guessed far more considering how polished and not like other MMO's it is. I find it far more fun to run around and explore and do events in this than I ever have any other MMO. People need to stop playing WoW.

Instead, GW2 made a few palls of mine and myself go back to WoW instead.

I'm not going to flame GW2 anymore. I've spend a fair amount of time doing that already in an earlier topic. What I have come to realize is that, quite simply, at this moment there are 2 types of MMO players: Those that like the WoW types and those that like the GW2 types.

Now, all WoW clones suck and fail miserably and GW2 is basically one of a kind (to me, in all its shortcomings) thus we come at a conclusion that there are WoW lovers and GW2 lovers. It's much like PC & Mac.

I cannot apprehend why one would chose GW2's style over WoW's, because to me "strength in sinergy" is better than "strength in numbers (and chaos?)" by definition. Here I'm of course referring to the holy trinity in WoW and lack thereof in GW2. In the week I tried GW2, I ended up prefering solo play over the visual mess that comes with the big "dynamic events". But one does not really play MMO's for its lukewarm singleplayer experience...

That's that for my little pathetic attempt to analyze the WoW vs GW thing. Sorry for again critisizing GW2 in the process. Couldn't help it.

Ripperjack wrote on Sep 13, 2012, 09:46:
Yay! More people to buy Jute Scraps from.

^ This. Good call.

I can't believe folks have already zerged the game to 80 - I've been playing most evenings for a couple of hours and am only level 14. Then again, my thief dies a lot and I have a few alts.

Right now I think WvWvW is the endgame but apparently they also have a lot of new content planned - been working on it since six months before release.

Hmm hoped for much more, not very good as it is now.
And with so many 80s already more and more ppl will see there is not really any pve endgame so will not increase much more. Kinda pitty, they put much more soul in this than all the rest (like AoC, WH, SWTOR, etc)

Yeah, I think a lot of people will likely expect to have 50 dailies and 15 instances to run into the ground. The game isn't meant to be played forever and ever like WoW so traditional comparisons are difficult. End game always seems to mean "run same dungeon over and over to collect purples which will be obsolete in 3 months". Some ideas though for "end game stuff":

- Craft a legendary weapon (its a serious undertaking)
- PvP, sPvP for small groups, WvW for large groups
- Run explorable mode dungeons after doing story mode
- Play with your friends

People should not poopsock the game and have 100%'d the world already but I know some can't help themselves because that's how MMOs have conditioned us. If you don't like PvP then you won't get 500 hours of this game but there's still plenty to do and more will be added I'm sure. The last game had what, 4 expansions and several large patches?

Potential customers should make no mistake though, the name of the game is Guild Wars and PvP is the unofficial endgame. I have a few friends who hate PvP but I finally convinced them to give it a shot and they're having a great time. There is something for everyone in their PvP setup and sPvP especially is very forgiving to newcomers.

Glykon wrote on Sep 13, 2012, 10:39:
Hmm hoped for much more, not very good as it is now.

As with GW1 NCsoft relies on sales in the long run, not only sales in the first two or three release weeks.

Hmm hoped for much more, not very good as it is now.
And with so many 80s already more and more ppl will see there is not really any pve endgame so will not increase much more. Kinda pitty, they put much more soul in this than all the rest (like AoC, WH, SWTOR, etc)