FYI, the Barb exploit posted on Battle.net the other day WORKS. I tried it out last night and was surprised that it actually does give you huge LOH. Fortunately, Im not far enough in Inferno diff to make use of it yet... if they don't patch before the weekend I will take full advantage of it and reach 'end game' by Sunday. Basically, the more you fight the more invincible you are. I personally like exploits... it makes games more fun!

Yakubs wrote on Jul 24, 2012, 10:29:

RollinThundr wrote on Jul 24, 2012, 00:22:
Honestly either Yakubs didn't play the game or is just talking out of his ass. GW2 is far more dynamic and fun than WoW ever could be.

Right, because I don't agree with you, I must have never played the game. You're delusional.

More "dynamic" and "fun"? In my time with GW2, there was nothing dynamic nor fun about it. At least in WoW you have to learn a skill rotation. In GW2, you just spam whatever ability is off cooldown. Sounds really dynamic, right?

Dynamic: Characterized by constant change, activity, or progress.

Set skill rotations are the exact opposite of 'dynamic'. Perhaps you're thinking of another word.

If you were just hammering everything as it came off cooldown, then frankly, you were playing badly. That sort of thing works in the early early areas of the game just the same as in WoW you can walk around and spam 1 or 2 and be just fine for the first bunch of levels, but trying that kind of useless spamming will get you mauled in PvP or in any area beyond the level 1-15 starting zones.

Yakubs wrote on Jul 24, 2012, 10:29:

RollinThundr wrote on Jul 24, 2012, 00:22:
Honestly either Yakubs didn't play the game or is just talking out of his ass. GW2 is far more dynamic and fun than WoW ever could be.

Right, because I don't agree with you, I must have never played the game. You're delusional.

More "dynamic" and "fun"? In my time with GW2, there was nothing dynamic nor fun about it. At least in WoW you have to learn a skill rotation. In GW2, you just spam whatever ability is off cooldown. Sounds really dynamic, right?

I certainly didn't just spam skills. I'd tend to use my debuffs first then, position myself behind the mob if I could, and throw in a skill steal for even more debuffs/damage when I could as a thief.

When I mentioned dynamic I mean the world events and dynamic group quests. From your posts it sounds like MMO's aren't for you. Either that or you're one of those Blizzard fanbois that feels like WoW is being threatened somehow.

Verno wrote on Jul 24, 2012, 09:10:

Bucky wrote on Jul 24, 2012, 02:09:

RollinThundr wrote on Jul 24, 2012, 00:22:
They're seriously changing thieves? I'm actually planning on a thief as my main and an elementalist as an alt. Really dug the thief class.

There was a lot of developer commentary on the beta forums about how skills across all classes were still going to get another heavy tuning pass before release. ArenaNet has a history of constantly fine-tuning the game over time too, though being that this is a conversation in a Diablo thread, I should point out that they are gradual, thought out changes for the better.

Just an aside but I loved how they did patching in GW2. When a client side patch is deployed you get a notification and have 3 minutes to relog to get the patch, thats it. When a server side patch is deployed they stagger restarts and push clients to overflow until they're all done. Its really slick and well done. No crazy "our servers are down every Tuesday for 8 hours" bullshit downtime stuff, you just restart and keep playing. I'm sure eventually they will need planned maintenance for the more major stuff or to replace hardware but it's nice to see a gaming company at least give a shit about uptime. Blizzard's been setting a horrible example there since WoW launched.

Totally. Their patching system is excellent. Just restart the client, patch real quick, and away you go. Unlike Blizzard and their 8 hour downtime plus however long it takes them to fix what they broke during maintance.

Yakubs wrote on Jul 24, 2012, 10:29:
Right, because I don't agree with you, I must have never played the game. You're delusional.

More "dynamic" and "fun"? In my time with GW2, there was nothing dynamic nor fun about it. At least in WoW you have to learn a skill rotation. In GW2, you just spam whatever ability is off cooldown. Sounds really dynamic, right?

Nah it's more that you present a really strange set of complaints that apply to most MMORPG games then people respond with reasons they don't agree, you ignore them then keep saying the same broad things. Which classes did you play? Which skills did you use? What weapons? How long did you actually spend? All of that stuff matters. As I said in an earlier post if I spent 3 hours on a Mesmer alone then I'd probably agree with you but that's not indicative of the whole experience.

Yes you are actually rewarded for thoughtfully using skills in Guild Wars 2 BTW. You can't just hit stuff at random for the entire game, sorry if your very small experience in the starter area lead you to think otherwise. Crowd control, debuffs, kiting, all of that stuff becomes important both in your personal story events and later in the general game.

As for dynamic, there is quite a bit of dynamic content in the game. There are many different types of events that unfold, some timed, others are chained or use different criteria. I was doing a simple escort quest that seemed boring on its surface but eventually turned into a zone battle. Events also scale pretty well to the player counts and classes. The combat picks up quite a bit as you get more access to skills that supplement your weapon skills and the mobs start to use theirs more often. There are several underwater zones and you have a different subset of things for them as well. Your personal story changes as you progress and you are presented with choices to customize the experience, some subtle and others large.

This comment was edited on Jul 24, 2012, 10:52.

RollinThundr wrote on Jul 24, 2012, 00:22:
Honestly either Yakubs didn't play the game or is just talking out of his ass. GW2 is far more dynamic and fun than WoW ever could be.

Right, because I don't agree with you, I must have never played the game. You're delusional.

More "dynamic" and "fun"? In my time with GW2, there was nothing dynamic nor fun about it. At least in WoW you have to learn a skill rotation. In GW2, you just spam whatever ability is off cooldown. Sounds really dynamic, right?

Bucky wrote on Jul 24, 2012, 02:09:

RollinThundr wrote on Jul 24, 2012, 00:22:
They're seriously changing thieves? I'm actually planning on a thief as my main and an elementalist as an alt. Really dug the thief class.

There was a lot of developer commentary on the beta forums about how skills across all classes were still going to get another heavy tuning pass before release. ArenaNet has a history of constantly fine-tuning the game over time too, though being that this is a conversation in a Diablo thread, I should point out that they are gradual, thought out changes for the better.

Just an aside but I loved how they did patching in GW2. When a client side patch is deployed you get a notification and have 3 minutes to relog to get the patch, thats it. When a server side patch is deployed they stagger restarts and push clients to overflow until they're all done. Its really slick and well done. No crazy "our servers are down every Tuesday for 8 hours" bullshit downtime stuff, you just restart and keep playing. I'm sure eventually they will need planned maintenance for the more major stuff or to replace hardware but it's nice to see a gaming company at least give a shit about uptime. Blizzard's been setting a horrible example there since WoW launched.

Laggy gameplay, disconnects, shitty netcode. That all saved us from those damn cheats!

NOT!

Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Jul 24, 2012, 01:39:

flechett3 wrote on Jul 24, 2012, 01:33:

RollinThundr wrote on Jul 23, 2012, 18:07:
Yeah because Hellgate London worked out so well. Oh wait.

I ordered a copy online to be delivered on release. Somehow, I would up with 2 copies. I still have an unboxed still-in-shrink-wrap copy of Hellgate. I really wanted to like the game, because I loved the concept and I knew Roper had his mitts in it. Still kinda bummed that more people aren't investing in the action-rpg genre. It seems like it's all story driven (Mass Effect series/Dragon Age series) or the combat isn't real-time. So few games now give you the thrill of new amazing loot swarming over you while you cut a swath of death through the overwhelming numbers of bad guys...

Seems like there's plenty of ARPGs coming out now though. Torchlight 2, Path of Exile, Bordlands 2, Krater, Grim Dawn, and I think I'm leaving a couple out still...

I've preordered and played the PoE beta. Unless they make massive strides between now and release then that game will sink.

flechett3 wrote on Jul 24, 2012, 04:31:

Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Jul 24, 2012, 01:39:
Seems like there's plenty of ARPGs coming out now though. Torchlight 2, Path of Exile, Bordlands 2, Krater, Grim Dawn, and I think I'm leaving a couple out still...

I'm hoping TL2 is a big leap from 1. I got into the PoE closed beta, it gets really blah. Sorry, but infinite dungeon killed it for me. I'll probably play through Borderlands 2 one time, just like I did 1. I liked it, but the linear gameplay, the fact that there were invisible walls everywhere, and places you can see but have to backtrack to after you've opened more of the plot up killed it for me (which seems like it goes against the linear complaint, but really it doesn't). I've only seen a bit about the last 2, I recently got married and moved, and I'm stealing shoddy wifi while waiting on EPB to come hook me up with some Fiber.

What do you mean by "infinite dungeon" in PoE?

Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Jul 24, 2012, 01:39:
Seems like there's plenty of ARPGs coming out now though. Torchlight 2, Path of Exile, Bordlands 2, Krater, Grim Dawn, and I think I'm leaving a couple out still...

I'm hoping TL2 is a big leap from 1. I got into the PoE closed beta, it gets really blah. Sorry, but infinite dungeon killed it for me. I'll probably play through Borderlands 2 one time, just like I did 1. I liked it, but the linear gameplay, the fact that there were invisible walls everywhere, and places you can see but have to backtrack to after you've opened more of the plot up killed it for me (which seems like it goes against the linear complaint, but really it doesn't). I've only seen a bit about the last 2, I recently got married and moved, and I'm stealing shoddy wifi while waiting on EPB to come hook me up with some Fiber.

RollinThundr wrote on Jul 24, 2012, 00:22:
They're seriously changing thieves? I'm actually planning on a thief as my main and an elementalist as an alt. Really dug the thief class.

There was a lot of developer commentary on the beta forums about how skills across all classes were still going to get another heavy tuning pass before release. ArenaNet has a history of constantly fine-tuning the game over time too, though being that this is a conversation in a Diablo thread, I should point out that they are gradual, thought out changes for the better.

flechett3 wrote on Jul 24, 2012, 01:33:

RollinThundr wrote on Jul 23, 2012, 18:07:
Yeah because Hellgate London worked out so well. Oh wait.

I ordered a copy online to be delivered on release. Somehow, I would up with 2 copies. I still have an unboxed still-in-shrink-wrap copy of Hellgate. I really wanted to like the game, because I loved the concept and I knew Roper had his mitts in it. Still kinda bummed that more people aren't investing in the action-rpg genre. It seems like it's all story driven (Mass Effect series/Dragon Age series) or the combat isn't real-time. So few games now give you the thrill of new amazing loot swarming over you while you cut a swath of death through the overwhelming numbers of bad guys...

Seems like there's plenty of ARPGs coming out now though. Torchlight 2, Path of Exile, Bordlands 2, Krater, Grim Dawn, and I think I'm leaving a couple out still...

RollinThundr wrote on Jul 23, 2012, 18:07:
Yeah because Hellgate London worked out so well. Oh wait.

I ordered a copy online to be delivered on release. Somehow, I would up with 2 copies. I still have an unboxed still-in-shrink-wrap copy of Hellgate. I really wanted to like the game, because I loved the concept and I knew Roper had his mitts in it. Still kinda bummed that more people aren't investing in the action-rpg genre. It seems like it's all story driven (Mass Effect series/Dragon Age series) or the combat isn't real-time. So few games now give you the thrill of new amazing loot swarming over you while you cut a swath of death through the overwhelming numbers of bad guys...

Verno wrote on Jul 23, 2012, 21:17:

Yakubs wrote on Jul 23, 2012, 20:28:
The only two points in your list having anything to do with gameplay are qualified with "slightly" and "modest." That should be enough to tell you how good this game is, especially since it's coming out something like 8 years after the game it's "slightly" and "modestly" better than. Pretty sad.

To call Guild Wars 2 a slight iteration on WoW is pretty silly. I don't see either one aspiring to be the other in any way except for perhaps financial. You don't really say anything about of substance about gameplay either, your complaints have been pretty subjective and vague. "Most skills are boring and just do damage", well it is an MMO, combat is the vehicle of the game. "Most skills just add a debuff!" As if just adding a debuff is an unimportant thing, debuffing is a pretty widely recognized and important mechanic. Sure it isn't a fun bullet point on the game box but I think the combat is more fleshed out than you give it credit for.

Guild Wars 2 isn't perfect, I have a pretty big list of stuff I'd like to see improved but ArenaNet is pretty good about listening to feedback. For example they are already taking Mesmers and Thieves back to the design team to make them more fun and interesting before release. I played a Mesmer for awhile and I would fully agree that their skills ran a tad on the dull side but if I let that be my whole experience then I would have missed on the incredible Elementalist gameplay for example.

Anyways you seem to have already made up your mind which is a shame because the game is actually pretty impressive. I don't think its the MMO to end all other MMOs or something silly but its definitely a bargain for $60 and no monthly sub, quite a bit there for MMO veterans and noobs alike.

people talking about the leveling system

I guess I don't see the issue, I like the idea of having levels as it gives an easy way to compare and contrast both socially and in the game environment. I don't see how it robs people of a sense of progression, you can still go back to an area and kick the crap out of things. Just maybe not as handily as if it was Skyrim with maxed enchanting/smithing or something. There's enough godsim RPGs as it is, what's wrong with a bit of challenge?

They're seriously changing thieves? I'm actually planning on a thief as my main and an elementalist as an alt. Really dug the thief class.

Honestly either Yakubs didn't play the game or is just talking out of his ass. GW2 is far more dynamic and fun than WoW ever could be.

Yakubs wrote on Jul 23, 2012, 20:28:
The only two points in your list having anything to do with gameplay are qualified with "slightly" and "modest." That should be enough to tell you how good this game is, especially since it's coming out something like 8 years after the game it's "slightly" and "modestly" better than. Pretty sad.

To call Guild Wars 2 a slight iteration on WoW is pretty silly. I don't see either one aspiring to be the other in any way except for perhaps financial. You don't really say anything about of substance about gameplay either, your complaints have been pretty subjective and vague. "Most skills are boring and just do damage", well it is an MMO, combat is the vehicle of the game. "Most skills just add a debuff!" As if just adding a debuff is an unimportant thing, debuffing is a pretty widely recognized and important mechanic. Sure it isn't a fun bullet point on the game box but I think the combat is more fleshed out than you give it credit for.

Guild Wars 2 isn't perfect, I have a pretty big list of stuff I'd like to see improved but ArenaNet is pretty good about listening to feedback. For example they are already taking Mesmers and Thieves back to the design team to make them more fun and interesting before release. I played a Mesmer for awhile and I would fully agree that their skills ran a tad on the dull side but if I let that be my whole experience then I would have missed on the incredible Elementalist gameplay for example.

Anyways you seem to have already made up your mind which is a shame because the game is actually pretty impressive. I don't think its the MMO to end all other MMOs or something silly but its definitely a bargain for $60 and no monthly sub, quite a bit there for MMO veterans and noobs alike.

people talking about the leveling system

I guess I don't see the issue, I like the idea of having levels as it gives an easy way to compare and contrast both socially and in the game environment. I don't see how it robs people of a sense of progression, you can still go back to an area and kick the crap out of things. Just maybe not as handily as if it was Skyrim with maxed enchanting/smithing or something. There's enough godsim RPGs as it is, what's wrong with a bit of challenge?

This comment was edited on Jul 23, 2012, 21:32.

SimplyMonk wrote on Jul 23, 2012, 17:56:

Yakubs wrote on Jul 23, 2012, 15:11:
I'm pretty confused by the positive reception from everyone, to be honest.

I don't see why it is so hard for you to understand the positive reception. It is one of the few MMOs out there not trying to be the "Next WoW" which by itself should merit a positive outlook. If that isn't enough:

No subscription (arguably a cash-shop isn't better, but they have to feed the hamsters somehow)
Unique fantasy world (in that it isn't orcs, elves and humans)
Slightly more engaging combat style (evade system/cross-class combos)
A modest attempt to break away from Tank/Healer/DPS party mechanic
Realm v Realm Improved over DaoC's which was the current king (in my opinion)
Training, Auction House, Mail, Inventory, Crafting systems that don't punish the player for not being in the capital city
Elimination of mob tagging and increased cooperation and sense of community (may break down if starting zones don't stay populated)
De-Leveling system that encourages higher levels to aid lower levels or allow friends that don't level as fast to stay engaged
Not ran by Blizzard, EA or Funcom
...

These are only a start of a number of subtle and not so subtle differences between the current crop of MMOs and GW2 that make it very deserving of a positive initial reception. Who knows what the first 6 months will hold after that, but there is no reason not to give it the benefit of the doubt given the last couple of Beta weekends.

Might not be your cup of tea, and with your complaints I don't see why you'd consider playing an MMO at all, but understanding why people are positive about it isn't hard.

The only two points in your list having anything to do with gameplay are qualified with "slightly" and "modest." That should be enough to tell you how good this game is, especially since it's coming out something like 8 years after the game it's "slightly" and "modestly" better than. Pretty sad.

Dades wrote on Jul 23, 2012, 19:38:

eunichron wrote on Jul 23, 2012, 19:31:

SimplyMonk wrote on Jul 23, 2012, 17:56:
De-Leveling system that encourages higher levels to aid lower levels or allow friends that don't level as fast to stay engaged

This is, in my opinion, a terrible feature that I wish they had not left in. It removes any sense of character progression. What does my level even matter if my level is always automatically adjusted to fit the zone I'm in? I would have preferred a full skill-based system like UO's, or even a hybrid system like TES/Skyrim. There's just no point in having character progression marked by levels if the levels are meaningless.

They couldn't do that without a mob tagging system which would ruin most of the events if a higher level could just waltz in and smoke everything. I find leveling to be an antiquated measurement of character progression but most people can't identify with a purely skill based system. I think they went for the most sensible hybrid that could succeed in the market right now.

Agreed. A point I hadn't thought of. On a more personal note, I enjoy playing one character only, but play with my fiance who likes to max out her character slots. This system allows me to focus on that one character, and possibly even get rewards comparable to my level although I haven't tested this, and still be able to play with all of her alts and not feel like I'm making the game cheap or too easy for her by overpowering everything.

RollinThundr wrote on Jul 23, 2012, 18:07:

Beamer wrote on Jul 23, 2012, 17:58:

Beelzebud wrote on Jul 23, 2012, 16:53:
Stick a fork in it, it's done.

I tried to like Diablo 3, mainly because I enjoyed the first two.

However D3 has made it abundantly clear that Blizzard is now just another corporate conglomerate ran by bean counters that care more about sucking their fans' bank accounts dry, rather than about making fun games, building a good reputation, and a lasting business.

I predict we'll read no more stories about how Blizzard developed a game and then tossed it out because it simply wasn't fun. Those days are long gone.

The guy that tossed out games because they weren't fun?

Bill Roper.

The guy that made the first two Diablos fun?

Bill Roper.

The separation of him (and much of his team) and Blizzard benefited no one. Well, I guess the guys that then stepped in his shoes, but that's about it.

Yeah because Hellgate London worked out so well. Oh wait.

As mentioned, him and Blizzard separating benefited no one.

eunichron wrote on Jul 23, 2012, 19:31:

SimplyMonk wrote on Jul 23, 2012, 17:56:
De-Leveling system that encourages higher levels to aid lower levels or allow friends that don't level as fast to stay engaged

This is, in my opinion, a terrible feature that I wish they had not left in. It removes any sense of character progression. What does my level even matter if my level is always automatically adjusted to fit the zone I'm in? I would have preferred a full skill-based system like UO's, or even a hybrid system like TES/Skyrim. There's just no point in having character progression marked by levels if the levels are meaningless.

They couldn't do that without a mob tagging system which would ruin most of the events if a higher level could just waltz in and smoke everything. I find leveling to be an antiquated measurement of character progression but most people can't identify with a purely skill based system. I think they went for the most sensible hybrid that could succeed in the market right now.