http://desli.de/5ZW for all thumbnail in one ugly web page.

I finished my college career as I was told I wouldn't get anywhere if I didn't. I went to a private catholic college that is pretty well known in the midwest and has a lot of alumni in some of the best companies in the midwest. Why? Because I was a corporate shill and just wanted a sweet executive corp job. I was well on my way when I pulled the plug on that shit! I didn't use much in IT/Finance that i learned in college, but the degree got me places I would never had made on my own.

Went back to school for my current job, but I learned a ton to apply to my job. Why? Cause out teachers were people who work in the field and told us the right way. Luckily, I already had a 4 year degree, so I only needed to do another year of a cohort to get certified.

The bottom line is you need to set yourself up to succeed, not fail. There are jobs that require a degree just as a hoop to jump through, and there are jobs you can be super successful at by just doing it. Either way, you need to be smart about it. If you aren't, well, then that is just your own damn fault (her's) and I don't feel any sympathy, yet I do have empathy for the situation.

sauron wrote on May 11, 2012, 21:03:
No offense, and I generally enjoy your contributions to the Blues community, but you're coming off as kind of strident on this and there are several long posts which are rather aggressive.

Do you have a degree? If so, why the hostility?

No offense taken, man. No, I'm a university drop out. Never finished my degree - dropped out after year 2 honours history/poly sci program. I regret not doing it because I actually love history and politics - as I think my posts over the years will attest to. Hell, for everything I've done on my own would be worth an MA at least if not a doctorate IMO. However, at the time, I realized I wasn't learning anything beyond what interested me and there was little practical application to it unless I was going full academia - which I had no intention of doing. I'll probably finish it one day, just because.

My old man was a master carpenter, and most of my family were/are tradesmen. So I see that side of it. When these people are bitching about no work, or being underpaid, they seem to miss the reality of what those things really mean. There are only so many tenured positions at Ivy League schools where the make the big bucks. And not many more, and even less money, at smaller schools. So I find it laughable...yes, laughable...that they have this sense of entitlement that they deserve some cushy, well paying job in academia.

Almost all my tradesmen family not only own their own houses but other properties too. They own cottages, cars, boats, solid investments, etc. and they can still sock it away. Meanwhile these people hop from shitty job to shitty job to unemployment to welfare and still feel they're owed somthing. That someone had somehow lied to them and simply by having an advanced degree the world would be their oyster. If they put half as much effort into something like a trade - albeit not as cushy - they'd be sitting pretty comfortable, and they wouldn't ever have to worry about being out of work.

I'm a bartender - working bar manager/agm - at a high end restaurant. And it's no different from any other trade. For those who really want to succeed and make good money, it's there. However, you need to understand customer service, sales, and product in a meaningful way. I've spent a lot of money over the years doing my WSET certs and other stuff that shows I actually know what the hell I'm talking about. So for me, I make just shy of 100k a year - most of it tax free - without killing myself. And...I actually, really like my work. So yeah, I get pissed when I hear about people like this who feel they're entitled to something better. Even in the trades there comes a point when you're paid for what you know moreso than what you do.

It's not like these people can't be out doing something else and making damn good money in the process. So, sitting around on gubment handouts hoping someday they'll get what's "owed" to them is not a way to go through life IMO. Believe me, I'm a socialist throgh and through, but my socialism stops at the self-entitlement line. You don't want to work doing something that you consider beneath you? Fine, starve in that case. The world needs ditchdiggers too, and at least they actually earn their money.

I learned a ton of neat stuff in college.

The general problem is the push for everyone to go to college. Growing up in suburbia it was just assumed that everybody around me would go straight to college out of high school. At no point did anyone even mention any other option. This is further evidenced by k-12 schools dropping voc ed classes in higher and higher numbers (apparently being able to make and fix things by oneself is old hat).

Not everyone deserves to go to college, and certainly not everyone should be allowed to go to college. As colleges are now unarguably businesses first and educators second, however, everyone is sent through the system and steeped in America's favorite past time... debt. The college education is simply another milestone expected of every up-and-comer, and far from being "higher education" it has become a waste of time for most of the people involved.

sauron wrote on May 11, 2012, 21:03:

Cutter wrote on May 11, 2012, 15:42:

Silicon Avatar wrote on May 11, 2012, 14:49:
The point is that when our most educated people aren't getting work it discourages people to get more education overall. That's not good. Filling up trade schools with overqualified people isn't going to help the economy or the country overall.

You want the smartest people out exercising their talents in your country, not spraying lawns and fitting pipes - or wandering off to other countries where they are paid for their knowledge.

You could replace the lady in the article with any number of PhDs in hard sciences who can't find jobs right now. I know one personally.

Well they should be spraying lawns and fitting pipes if that's where the money is. We live in an overpopulated world that's only getting worse. You've got a slew of Asian countries churning out MAs and PhDs like they're going out of style, so how do you compete with it? You don't because even for them there are limited roles for all those various degrees. Having a degree does not, nor should it, guarentee you a job in your field of choice. Like everything else in life, you need to earn it, and that means more than a degree.

Meanwhile where we actually need people - trades, agriculture, etc. - people aren't going. They'd rather sit around unemployed feeling entitled and angry at the system. I know plenty of tradesmen making 100K+ a year and they're not killing themselves doing it either. And lastly, people shouldn't be having kids unless they know they can support them. What I see these people as are wholly selfish and irresponsible. And then they wonder why they end up where they are.

No offense, and I generally enjoy your contributions to the Blues community, but you're coming off as kind of strident on this and there are several long posts which are rather aggressive.

Do you have a degree? If so, why the hostility?

The entitlement that degree holders have is insane. I agree with sentiments in this thread that college doesn't prepare people for working in the real world. My own experience (as someone who does technical interviews as one aspect of my job) is that people with a degree look down on those without, generally lack the skills required, and demand a higher salary.

It boils down to entitlement.

The lady in the article has a Ph D in medieval history. I mean, come on. What the fuck did you expect? After 100k and 10 years of school did you not once think what you were going to do post-graduation? Did you ever consider return on your investment?

There was a huge debate over dinner a few nights ago. We're all late 20's/early 30's, and there are two people unemployed. They both hold liberal arts degrees. They complain about lack of opportunity and how their degree is worthless... and I always bite my tongue and try to sympathize, but it gets difficult. Why the fuck did you go after a degree with no professional future if you have the expectation that the degree will be your meal ticket?

One more thing: sending 18 year olds off to college and expecting them to make an informed decision on what they want to do for the rest of their lives is flawed.

Cutter wrote on May 11, 2012, 15:42:

Silicon Avatar wrote on May 11, 2012, 14:49:
The point is that when our most educated people aren't getting work it discourages people to get more education overall. That's not good. Filling up trade schools with overqualified people isn't going to help the economy or the country overall.

You want the smartest people out exercising their talents in your country, not spraying lawns and fitting pipes - or wandering off to other countries where they are paid for their knowledge.

You could replace the lady in the article with any number of PhDs in hard sciences who can't find jobs right now. I know one personally.

Well they should be spraying lawns and fitting pipes if that's where the money is. We live in an overpopulated world that's only getting worse. You've got a slew of Asian countries churning out MAs and PhDs like they're going out of style, so how do you compete with it? You don't because even for them there are limited roles for all those various degrees. Having a degree does not, nor should it, guarentee you a job in your field of choice. Like everything else in life, you need to earn it, and that means more than a degree.

Meanwhile where we actually need people - trades, agriculture, etc. - people aren't going. They'd rather sit around unemployed feeling entitled and angry at the system. I know plenty of tradesmen making 100K+ a year and they're not killing themselves doing it either. And lastly, people shouldn't be having kids unless they know they can support them. What I see these people as are wholly selfish and irresponsible. And then they wonder why they end up where they are.

No offense, and I generally enjoy your contributions to the Blues community, but you're coming off as kind of strident on this and there are several long posts which are rather aggressive.

Do you have a degree? If so, why the hostility?

xXBatmanXx wrote on May 11, 2012, 15:22:
Colleges no longer teach you what you need. They give you passing grades and take your money.....that is about it.

The other thing others have said. Why isn't she working anywhere she can just to make money? That is the part that upsets me about people. "Meh I am unemployed" - well, you don't have to be, but you do need to swallow some pride and get a fuggin job!!!!

Not really sure what she expected to do with that degree...I can't imagine there were classes of 60 in here studies! She is a moron.

This is an anecdotal story about one person. The statistical data shows something different. A college education leads to more salary and less unemployment, even in employment-challenged 2011. And the more education you have the less unemployment and more salary you have. See this chart. Just a few data points:

No HS diploma: 14% unemployment, $451 weekly earnings
Bachelor degree: 5% unemployment, $1053 weekly earnings
Doctoral degree: 2.5% unemployment, $1551 weekly earnings

So, the person in this story played the averages and lost, but she is an extreme minority. Her chances of being unemployed or underemployed are the lowest of any group. I truly wish her luck.

Cutter wrote on May 11, 2012, 12:28:
I always read the comments.

I often do to, but it depends on the site. This site usually has pretty high quality comments, the occasional flame war excepted. Ars typically does too, as do the ones over at my favorite political blog, Balloon Juice.

You know what I'm listening to as I drink getting ready to go to a party tonight?

The Who - We're Not Gonna' Take It!

Been a while since I've listend to The Who. Saw them a few times in concert over the years. Man, they were a phenomenally good rock band!

Skyrim sale on Steam. $40!!!!!!!!

Joss wrote on May 11, 2012, 13:59:

The planet 55 Cancri e was first discovered in 2004 and is not a habitable world. Instead, it is known as a super-Earth because of its size: The world is about twice the width of Earth and is super-dense, with about eight times the mass of Earth.

Oh for fuck's sakes. Don't name the thing Super Earth if there's no chance on it being habitable dipshits. Getting our hopes up for nothing.

I was even more annoyed by this part:

The world is about twice the width of Earth and is super-dense, with about eight times the mass of Earth.

What does the author mean by "super dense?" It shows up a few times in the article. When you double the diameter of a sphere, the result is an 8 fold increase in volume, so the planet has the same density as the Earth.

So, is the Earth also considered a "super dense" planet? If so, why not say that in the article? Why not say the planet has the same density as the Earth? Or does the author think, "Oh, it's twice the diameter but 8 times the mass, so it's 4 times the density!!!11" It gives the impression the author doesn't understand much about science and math.

Loving the food sub-text on here, I've given up on the full blown american bbq restaurant over here. But we are getting pretty close to a pizza delivery company - costing is all done etc and I've got one signature base ("olive overload" - pizza dough infused with chopped black olives, a bit like olive Focaccia but topped with normal pizza stuff).

Just need the rest of the start-up cash and we'll be up and running. Profit margins seem to be HUGE apart from the cost of insuring the drivers to deliver fast food - if we can get a good quote on that we're going to go for it.

nin wrote on May 11, 2012, 10:49:

Silicon Avatar wrote on May 11, 2012, 10:46:
The comments in that "From graduate school to welfare" story are more informative than the article. You can see how people really think (IE people are hypocrites with very little compassion).

Honestly, I've stopped reading comments on most news articles these days, as it's generally just disgusting, thoughtless, rude people who I'm amazed can string a series of words together. It's like the absolute bottom rung of the internet.

I totally agree. But a LOT of the comments made about this story were at least readable. A lot better than the crap I see in our local paper ....

Silicon Avatar wrote on May 11, 2012, 14:49:
The point is that when our most educated people aren't getting work it discourages people to get more education overall. That's not good. Filling up trade schools with overqualified people isn't going to help the economy or the country overall.

You want the smartest people out exercising their talents in your country, not spraying lawns and fitting pipes - or wandering off to other countries where they are paid for their knowledge.

You could replace the lady in the article with any number of PhDs in hard sciences who can't find jobs right now. I know one personally.

Actually, I really like smart people running plumbing companies and making sure I get quality work done. Also, I wouldn't say a person with a PHD in Medieval History is overqualified for anything. If she wanted to be able to support a family with a college education, perhaps picking something with some marketability would have been a good idea.

up before the sun

i[Re: "Save Jerry"

I expected a story about a rooster. Once I got passed that, I must say the video didn't move me much. All I know from watching it is the guy expected to inherit a city license from the previous owner. On the face of it I'd say no, let the competition begin. I don't think the last guy should have had a "lifetime" license in the first place. I also found the music distracting, it has been overused.

Silicon Avatar wrote on May 11, 2012, 14:49:
The point is that when our most educated people aren't getting work it discourages people to get more education overall. That's not good. Filling up trade schools with overqualified people isn't going to help the economy or the country overall.

You want the smartest people out exercising their talents in your country, not spraying lawns and fitting pipes - or wandering off to other countries where they are paid for their knowledge.

You could replace the lady in the article with any number of PhDs in hard sciences who can't find jobs right now. I know one personally.

Well they should be spraying lawns and fitting pipes if that's where the money is. We live in an overpopulated world that's only getting worse. You've got a slew of Asian countries churning out MAs and PhDs like they're going out of style, so how do you compete with it? You don't because even for them there are limited roles for all those various degrees. Having a degree does not, nor should it, guarentee you a job in your field of choice. Like everything else in life, you need to earn it, and that means more than a degree.

Meanwhile where we actually need people - trades, agriculture, etc. - people aren't going. They'd rather sit around unemployed feeling entitled and angry at the system. I know plenty of tradesmen making 100K+ a year and they're not killing themselves doing it either. And lastly, people shouldn't be having kids unless they know they can support them. What I see these people as are wholly selfish and irresponsible. And then they wonder why they end up where they are.

xXBatmanXx wrote on May 11, 2012, 15:22:
Colleges no longer teach you what you need. They give you passing grades and take your money.....that is about it.

This is exactly what I've run into in my post-college job search. Employers, in all sectors, value work experience more than any education. This woman sounds like she's on the right track, but just having a Ph.D. doesn't guarantee her a tenured position at an accredited university teaching several hundred students. She should try again in a couple years once she has more teaching experience, perhaps a few published papers, and can prove that she can build and effectively administer a curriculum. I think that would be more valuable to any university than just having a piece of paper that says "Doctor of Philosophy" on it. In my own searching I've come across numerous positions from libraries and K-12 schools desperate for evening and weekend tutors, I'm sure that coupled with what she's doing already would be enough to make a decent living, as well as provide valuable work experience for her resumé. Or maybe she has already and the jobs just aren't available. The economy is doing better, and slowly recovering, but we're still not anywhere near the levels we were pre-recession.

Creston wrote on May 11, 2012, 15:03:

Silicon Avatar wrote on May 11, 2012, 14:49:
The point is that when our most educated people aren't getting work it discourages people to get more education overall. That's not good.

The sad reality is that most education no longer in any way prepares you for a life in the workforce. We had an intern start in our department last week, and the kid doesn't know jack shit. It's not his fault, I'm not holding it against him, but what the fuck do they teach him all day? He's getting an MS in Information Technology, but apparently that no longer involves knowing anything about computers, or networks, or basic shit like that?

So is the onus on the workplace, or is it on all these "higher institutions of learning" where you go to learn shit that is in no way applicable to life, except when you and your other hipster friends are sitting at Starbucks lamenting how real life just doesn't appreciate how intelligent you are, and you can do so with all the fancy theorems you learned?

Creston

Colleges no longer teach you what you need. They give you passing grades and take your money.....that is about it.

The other thing others have said. Why isn't she working anywhere she can just to make money? That is the part that upsets me about people. "Meh I am unemployed" - well, you don't have to be, but you do need to swallow some pride and get a fuggin job!!!!

Not really sure what she expected to do with that degree...I can't imagine there were classes of 60 in here studies! She is a moron.