Ratty wrote on May 4, 2012, 18:50:

NKD wrote on May 4, 2012, 08:07:
To be fair, I think people are a bit confused. It's a separate studio (ZeniMax Online Studios) working on this huge pile of shit. I wouldn't worry about the future of the singleplayer Elder Scrolls franchise.

Hey thanks for that NKD. Not being a multiplayer gamer that was my primary worry. No more SP ES games for a long while. Still, I have to worry that they'll hold off on them to boost sales for the MMO. Jonesing for some new ES action? We've got your game right here and it's the only game in town.

Yeah I hope there aren't some indirect effects on Bethesda's main studio that crap all over things, because this is an Elder Scrolls game in name and setting only, it's not going to be a valid substitute for Elder Scrolls 6.

NKD wrote on May 4, 2012, 08:07:
To be fair, I think people are a bit confused. It's a separate studio (ZeniMax Online Studios) working on this huge pile of shit. I wouldn't worry about the future of the singleplayer Elder Scrolls franchise.

Hey thanks for that NKD. Not being a multiplayer gamer that was my primary worry. No more SP ES games for a long while. Still, I have to worry that they'll hold off on them to boost sales for the MMO. Jonesing for some new ES action? We've got your game right here and it's the only game in town.

NKD wrote on May 4, 2012, 08:46:

LgFriess wrote on May 4, 2012, 08:22:
http://imgur.com/a/fO9Ty#0

Ugh. After seeing this in yesterdays thread, I'm even more disappointed.

When I cancelled my SWTOR account, a survey popped up asking why. After writing the numerous reasons basically stating "boredom" I finished with, "WoW burnout has caused me to cancel my SWTOR subscription." I actually ENJOYED both games. Played WoW for years. SWTOR for 4 months. But that game style is just so dead. At least for a game that will want you to play for a long stretch of time.

Being a veteran of EQ and its various descendants over the years, I think a large part of the problem with where that style of MMO has gone is the overt focus on making things easier and easier and more casual. Yes, that approach nets you a larger subscriber base, but a simple fact of life is that, with few exceptions, you don't value something that came to you at no effort. That's true online and offline. I think most of us had parents, grandparents, or teachers that told us that things which come at great effort taste so much sweeter.

It's the reason I have never sold my EQ1 account. I put a lot of blood sweat and tears into that shit. Even though I haven't played in 8 years, I'm not getting rid of it. But my WoW account? I've put even more years into that than I did into EQ, but I don't care about it one bit, because while I invested more years, I invested significantly less effort.

The major appeal that style of MMO had was that it was sort of like real life for regular people. You got out of it what you put into it. You had to really put in a lot of effort if you wanted to succeed beyond the average joe.

But now it's more like real life for celebrities than real life for regular people. Loot and accomplishment thrown upon you for little to no effort. And we know how that often ends for celebrities: They end up dying of a drug overdose because despite having everything they could want, none of it had any meaning, just like a lot of today's MMOs.

Now MMOs are less and less about making a virtual world in which you can carve out a virtual life, and more about just being a giant, disposable, forgettable theme park.

Detractors of the MMO genre often say they don't want their games to feel like work. That's fine for any other game, but once you try to make a virtual world, the only thing that gives anything value or meaning is the effort you put into it. It has no inherent value of its own.

I want MMOs to get back to being products for those of us who really enjoy the concept of a virtual world, not just a product designed to cash in on popped collar bros looking for a Facebook-with-swords concept.

I'm 100% with you, even though I never got to play EQ back in its prime.

I've been playing SW:TOR since Dec. 17, but I'm just about done. I'm not renewing my subscription again once the free time they gave runs out. But you know what account I've kept active that entire time, despite not really playing the game? My Eve account. And I'll continue to do so for a long time.

As for the leaked details on the TES MMO, as soon as I saw the "120 hours to level cap" I knew I probably wasn't going to be interested in ever playing the game. Then I found the leaked list of details, which I got about 2/3 of the way through before I was so disinterested in the whole thing that I just moved on.

Hmm, well, biggest red flag to me so far is the fact they are doing public dungeons. And not only doing it, but bragging about it as if it's a selling point. They don't seem to realize the reason most MMOs switched to instanced dungeons in the first place - dumbasses. If they don't realize something that fundamental about MMOs, it's hard to believe they'll get the rest of it right.

Skyrim with more people would be cool, but then again the best part of TES, its varied and wonderful branching quests wouldnt work. There is no way you can make a game as complex as Skyrim work in a persistent multiplayer environment, not without sacrificing a lot of what makes TES so rich in entertainment.

NKD wrote on May 4, 2012, 08:46:
you don't value something that came to you at no effort

I haven't seen a game yet gives you something for no effort. But since you're an EQ player, I'm not surprised you'd say something like this.

NKD wrote on May 4, 2012, 08:46:
I put a lot of blood sweat and tears into that shit.

Of course you did, because it was EQ. EQ was the most grindy shit MMO ever, and I knew a guy that lost his life to it.

Isn't it sad that you were lured into an addictive time sink game, so much so, that you feel you must keep your inactive-for-8-years character permanently? lol

NKD wrote on May 4, 2012, 08:46:
The major appeal that style of MMO had was that it was sort of like real life for regular people.

No, that's not the appeal at all. Maybe for you, and other EQ lifers/nerds, but not for the majority. You're a minority. You probably could be grouped with the family-like players, mothers, etc. treating a game like real life. lulz.

No, the appeal was simply that there is online interaction with players, and it's as simple as that. You never once see anyone doing role play, or anyone getting married, or anyone treating it as a real life experience.

NKD wrote on May 4, 2012, 08:46:
You got out of it what you put into it.

Really? So, for the 500 days (12,000) hours that you put into your EQ character, what exactly did you get out of it? lulz. I'll tell you what you got out of it. NOTHING. All you have now is a digital inactive 8-year-old character. That's it. You got nothing out of it. No rewards. You probably dont even have any friends in RL to brag to about it. lulz. How does it feel to lose 500 days of your life to an MMO?

NKD wrote on May 4, 2012, 08:46:
Loot and accomplishment thrown upon you for little to no effort.

Really? So, I can simply walk through a dungeon without doing anything and survive? I can walk straight to the boss? I can fight the boss without doing anything and survive? Every boss needs a pathetic "song and dance" strategy to it for it to be worthwhile to you to feel like there was effort in it? lol

No.

You obviously haven't played Diablo 2, which is a game that you might consider effortless, but it's a game that many consider to be FUN because of that.

NKD wrote on May 4, 2012, 08:46:
I want MMOs to get back to being products for those of us who really enjoy the concept of a virtual world

Go play Second Life then, dude. Or go back to EQ, lol.

briktal wrote on May 4, 2012, 09:22:
Another GW2 clone?

I doubt it will be even that good.

More like a WoW clone, I would have to guess. It has been being developed for around 5 years so far... I think Zenimax bought the Hero Engine back in 2007-ish. So it is probably too late to copy GW2's good stuff.

Of course, this is all speculation until we actually get more info. However, it is obvious that this is NOT going to be "Skyrim with more people"... and probably more like "WoW with TES stamped on it."

Quboid wrote on May 3, 2012, 21:15:
I'm surprised MMOs are only on Windows or Macs. There's a fortune to be made with MMOs on consoles if you can get Microsoft and Sony to play along, and Elder Scrolls is ideally positioned to make this jump. MS and Sony would make a fortune too from a F2P game. Want a Daedric sword? That'll be 600 MS points.

If ESO was on the PS3 and Xbox as well as the PC, preferably playing together, World of Warcraft would have massive competition.

The attention span of your average console player does not work well with the mechanics of a MMO. If they dumb it down to the point it is playable on a console PC users will leave it in the dust.

Also while you can get PS3 and PC to play on the same servers/together (FFXI, Portal 2) you will NEVER get this on 360.

Another GW2 clone?

Verno wrote on May 4, 2012, 08:52:
After seeing all of those screenshots and how disconnected this is from most TES games I think I'll be joining NKD in his skepticism.

Ironic isn't it? I'm usually the one calling people out for showing too much of the cliche Blue's News cynicism where they hate on everything.

After seeing all of those screenshots and how disconnected this is from most TES games I think I'll be joining NKD in his skepticism.

LgFriess wrote on May 4, 2012, 08:22:
http://imgur.com/a/fO9Ty#0

Ugh. After seeing this in yesterdays thread, I'm even more disappointed.

When I cancelled my SWTOR account, a survey popped up asking why. After writing the numerous reasons basically stating "boredom" I finished with, "WoW burnout has caused me to cancel my SWTOR subscription." I actually ENJOYED both games. Played WoW for years. SWTOR for 4 months. But that game style is just so dead. At least for a game that will want you to play for a long stretch of time.

Being a veteran of EQ and its various descendants over the years, I think a large part of the problem with where that style of MMO has gone is the overt focus on making things easier and easier and more casual. Yes, that approach nets you a larger subscriber base, but a simple fact of life is that, with few exceptions, you don't value something that came to you at no effort. That's true online and offline. I think most of us had parents, grandparents, or teachers that told us that things which come at great effort taste so much sweeter.

It's the reason I have never sold my EQ1 account. I put a lot of blood sweat and tears into that shit. Even though I haven't played in 8 years, I'm not getting rid of it. But my WoW account? I've put even more years into that than I did into EQ, but I don't care about it one bit, because while I invested more years, I invested significantly less effort.

The major appeal that style of MMO had was that it was sort of like real life for regular people. You got out of it what you put into it. You had to really put in a lot of effort if you wanted to succeed beyond the average joe.

But now it's more like real life for celebrities than real life for regular people. Loot and accomplishment thrown upon you for little to no effort. And we know how that often ends for celebrities: They end up dying of a drug overdose because despite having everything they could want, none of it had any meaning, just like a lot of today's MMOs.

Now MMOs are less and less about making a virtual world in which you can carve out a virtual life, and more about just being a giant, disposable, forgettable theme park.

Detractors of the MMO genre often say they don't want their games to feel like work. That's fine for any other game, but once you try to make a virtual world, the only thing that gives anything value or meaning is the effort you put into it. It has no inherent value of its own.

I want MMOs to get back to being products for those of us who really enjoy the concept of a virtual world, not just a product designed to cash in on popped collar bros looking for a Facebook-with-swords concept.

This comment was edited on May 4, 2012, 08:53.

http://imgur.com/a/fO9Ty#0

Ugh. After seeing this in yesterdays thread, I'm even more disappointed.

When I cancelled my SWTOR account, a survey popped up asking why. After writing the numerous reasons basically stating "boredom" I finished with, "WoW burnout has caused me to cancel my SWTOR subscription." I actually ENJOYED both games. Played WoW for years. SWTOR for 4 months. But that game style is just so dead. At least for a game that will want you to play for a long stretch of time.

To be fair, I think people are a bit confused. It's a separate studio (ZeniMax Online Studios) working on this huge pile of shit. I wouldn't worry about the future of the singleplayer Elder Scrolls franchise.

ZeniMax is the parent company, and under its umbrella it has a publisher (Bethesda Softworks) and several studios (including Bethesda Game Studios, ZeniMax Online Studios, and id Software)

The studio responsible for this WoW cloneage was formed before Skyrim development even began.

InBlack wrote on May 4, 2012, 04:40:
Damn will they never learn??

No.

Beth is now part of Zenimax and therefore clueless investors have a major influence on the upcoming projects. And many investors in the gaming market still think that MMOs, now combined with the Ultimate Powers of F2P, is TEH BIG SHIT! I consider Skyrim the last TES-SP-only game from Beth.

This is a bad idea. A very bad idea. The Elder Scrolls were always my favorite role playing games, Oblivion was a bit of a dud but Skyrim sure did right a lot of wrongs and now this....

Damn will they never learn??

A little late to the burned out genre.

zodden wrote on May 4, 2012, 01:16:
Im done moving from MMO to MMO. SWTOR was the last. As I played it I realized that they are all the same at the core. There is nothing truly new, and without that its just more of the same.

Yeah, there are almost no companies trying anything different. For example, CCP has carved out a little niche for themselves with EVE and eventually World of Darkness in terms of player-driven sandbox games with narrow but dedicated appeal, but if those aren't your speed all thats left are a bunch of WoW clones that only vary by a few degrees.

There needs to be more companies trying to fill a niche besides just one doing spreadsheets in space.

But no, lets keep releasing shitty fantasy games that are fundamentally identical and designed to be playable by retards too stupid to breathe.

Im done moving from MMO to MMO. SWTOR was the last. As I played it I realized that they are all the same at the core. There is nothing truly new, and without that its just more of the same.

Illumin wrote on May 3, 2012, 23:53:
Dear 8 pound 6 ounce new born sweet baby Jesus, that dosn't even know a word yet...thank you!

P. S if you think this game isnt going to make a ton of cash your nuts. Im not saying its gonna be a hit that last for 10 years( I hope it is ), but they will make a boat load of cash. I just hope the melee combat is better .. much better.

It's typical hotbar combat. Sorry.