But every Gothic game, since the first, had rather clunky combat.

The problem here isn't the clunky combat. It's the fact that monster combat has devolved into spamming LMB and hoping you don't get stunlocked first. It's the exact same issue that Gothic 3 had. I'm fine with clunky combat as long as there's skill and thought involved (like in G1, 2 and Risen) but that's not the case in Risen 2. NPC combat fares better, as you can actually defend yourself and timing and positioning are still important.

As for critics, PB's games have never been very well-received in the west. Gothic 2 (what most PB fans consider to be their best game) has an average Metacritic score of 79. Gothic has an 81. Risen has a 77. With Risen 2 being the most hyped and marketed of all these games, that means there are only more reviewers to bash it.

Jerykk wrote on Apr 28, 2012, 18:57:

The game feels so good that combat is just one tiny factor that should influence the score of the game.

Combat has always been a huge part of the Gothic and Risen games. Risen 2 is no exception. You spend a large portion of the game in combat, so it's not just a "tiny factor."

A tiny factor is bullshit, I admit. But every Gothic game, since the first, had rather clunky combat. I always liked it, though, and I matter of factly still do in Risen 2. Once you get kick and riposte the game gets that really nice pirate swashbuckler'ish melee feeling. Nothing to get all worked up about and rate a game so goddamn low without giving it a fucking chance.

Pisses me off how a bunch of impatient, arrogant asshole game critics get shit on a game so bad. The devs that put their heart and soul in it -- especially devs like PB -- will feel it hard.

Creston wrote on Apr 29, 2012, 12:14:

0 bytes wrote on Apr 29, 2012, 11:59:
I had a problem with stuttering which seemed to happen when textures loaded or objects popped into the world. It has been a while since I played last, but I did some research at the time and I had concluded that this was an intrinsic flaw of the engine.

If you're talking about Gothic 3, it actually ran just fine on my system back then.

Yes, Gothic 3. Seems a fair amount of people had, or have, an issue with the stuttering. i7-920 6GB and I believe I was using a GTX 285 at that time. Seems that hardware would have been sufficient, but using a GTX 570 now and I'm curious if that'd make any difference. Eh, so many other games to play--and I still have to get through Oblivion GOTY before I pick up Skyrim. heh

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. At least I know that it is capable of running without a problem.

0 bytes wrote on Apr 29, 2012, 11:59:

Creston wrote on Apr 28, 2012, 14:13:
Does it fix the horribly shitty combat?

First and only character I made was melee and, yeah, the combat mechanic was terrible. I would have tried magic or melee, but was worried they may have been way too frustrating. IIRC, magic only had one time use spells. I'm assuming a magic user would be more like a battlemage.

I had a problem with stuttering which seemed to happen when textures loaded or objects popped into the world. It has been a while since I played last, but I did some research at the time and I had concluded that this was an intrinsic flaw of the engine. Had this been everyone's experience? Seemed as if my video settings were too high, but I'm quite sure I had experimented with them, possibly even turning everything down to absolute minimum, to no avail.

I appreciated the game's exploration aspect, though.

If you're talking about Gothic 3, it actually ran just fine on my system back then. I just got tired of the bullshit combat, and the absolutely horrible bugs that were in the game. I had to go to the castle to talk to the king (I guess), and the fucker wasn't there. Turned out the game had spawned him 16 miles into the air, where he was just hanging aimlessly.

Testing? Nah, not for JoWood! Just rush it out the fucking door!

Glad those fuckers have gone bust. Now EA needs to follow suit.

Creston

LittleMe wrote on Apr 29, 2012, 01:08:
Creston search youtube for gothic 2 gameplay and sort by upload date and you'll see for yourself. Looks more open sandboxy to me but I didn't watch much.

You mean Risen 2, I take it? I finished Gothic 2 years ago.

Creston

Creston wrote on Apr 28, 2012, 14:13:
Does it fix the horribly shitty combat?

First and only character I made was melee and, yeah, the combat mechanic was terrible. I would have tried magic or melee, but was worried they may have been way too frustrating. IIRC, magic only had one time use spells. I'm assuming a magic user would be more like a battlemage.

I had a problem with stuttering which seemed to happen when textures loaded or objects popped into the world. It has been a while since I played last, but I did some research at the time and I had concluded that this was an intrinsic flaw of the engine. Had this been everyone's experience? Seemed as if my video settings were too high, but I'm quite sure I had experimented with them, possibly even turning everything down to absolute minimum, to no avail.

I appreciated the game's exploration aspect, though.

WaltC wrote on Apr 29, 2012, 08:45:
Your "sale" comment mystifies me since most people I know often wait for sales before they buy anything. Why games should be any different at all is a strange thought. Surely--you don't think all of them are worth $50 on some kind of auto-pilot price plan, right?

You have a point but games are on sale more often and cheaper quicker than they use to be when there was no such thing as Steam and the rest. So the "normal" price or expectation for a game has perhaps changed.

The flip side is people seem to be buying more, there are topics on Steam forums about the amount of games they have but haven't played.

gothic 3 was too open too big too little story driven. And had killer wolves out of the box.

netnerd85 wrote on Apr 29, 2012, 04:58:

yuastnav wrote on Apr 29, 2012, 04:47:
I really wish Piranha Bytes would just try something new but apparently many developers are afraid of that in today's industry.

People don't buy games anymore unless they are on Sale.

I think the smart developers stick with what they are good at doing and leave the rest to other people...;) Your "sale" comment mystifies me since most people I know often wait for sales before they buy anything. Why games should be any different at all is a strange thought. Surely--you don't think all of them are worth $50 on some kind of auto-pilot price plan, right?

It would be great if these guys brought dodging back into Risen 2. Unfortunately, that would also require a reworking of the monster AI, as well as new animations/animation tweaks, so it's fairly unlikely.

I loved Gothic 1 and 2 to bits, Gothic 1 is still my most favourite game of all time, but Risen just felt like more of the same and it's getting tedious.
I really wish Piranha Bytes would just try something new but apparently many developers are afraid of that in today's industry.

Risen 2 actually does add some new stuff to the formula. For the first time in any PB game, there are actually skill checks during dialogue (for persuasion, intimidation and sometimes even cheapshots). Many of the quests are relatively open-ended and have multiple solutions. There's also a proper companion system. The armor system has been redone as well, so instead of getting a few major, full-body armor types, you have a bunch of equipment pieces, allowing for greater customization and specialization. They also added a fast travel system and sprint ability. The crafting system seems pretty extensive as well. The different combat abilities add some variety to the combat as well, though this only really applies to NPC combat.

Of course, there are some changes that aren't so great. The combat is the most obvious one, but there's also stuff like being unable to loot guys who have been knocked out but not killed. Also, I don't think monsters sleep anymore. I've wandered around at night and have yet to see any animals taking a nap.

This comment was edited on Apr 29, 2012, 07:12.

yuastnav wrote on Apr 29, 2012, 04:47:
I really wish Piranha Bytes would just try something new but apparently many developers are afraid of that in today's industry.

People don't buy games anymore unless they are on Sale.

I couldn't even finish Risen because I got so bored with it.
I loved Gothic 1 and 2 to bits, Gothic 1 is still my most favourite game of all time, but Risen just felt like more of the same and it's getting tedious.
I really wish Piranha Bytes would just try something new but apparently many developers are afraid of that in today's industry.

If the combat in Risen 2 is the same as the first then I'll pass. I found it repetitious and boring, making the whole game just feel tedious. I quit halfway through.

Creston search youtube for gothic 2 gameplay and sort by upload date and you'll see for yourself. Looks more open sandboxy to me but I didn't watch much.

Is Risen 2 at least more interestic visually than the first Risen? I got really bored with exploring in that game, as it all looked the same (and pretty crappy brown at that.)

Creston

Quboid wrote on Apr 28, 2012, 16:12:
Skyrim is polished to the point where the world feels a bit generic...

is an over rated, over marketed game if there ever was one.

The game feels so good that combat is just one tiny factor that should influence the score of the game.

Combat has always been a huge part of the Gothic and Risen games. Risen 2 is no exception. You spend a large portion of the game in combat, so it's not just a "tiny factor."

Off-topic:

Risen 2 Dark Waters is out in Europe and it's awesome so far! They nailed the pirate feeling!

If you liked the original Gothic and Risen.. get this game.

Some critics moan like Czech bitches that the combat isn't good enough for them. Don't let that cloud your own judgement. The game feels so good that combat is just one tiny factor that should influence the score of the game.

Icewind wrote on Apr 28, 2012, 16:16:

Creston wrote on Apr 28, 2012, 14:13:
Does this include all the previous offical (ie Piranha Bytes) patches? Does it fix the horribly shitty combat?

I may get this and give Gothic another go.

Creston

It does have a secondary method of combat you can turn on, but that was introduced 2 patches ago. I tried it, but all it does it make it so that human enemies block 99.99% of the time, which makes combat last longer and become more tedious.

I beat the game with last year's community patch and didn't really notice a difference. It's still a mediocre game and a horrible game by Piranha Byte's standards. No patch can fix that.

Alright, I guess I'll give it a try, to see what it's like. Thanks man.

Creston

Creston wrote on Apr 28, 2012, 14:13:
Does this include all the previous offical (ie Piranha Bytes) patches? Does it fix the horribly shitty combat?

I may get this and give Gothic another go.

Creston

It does have a secondary method of combat you can turn on, but that was introduced 2 patches ago. I tried it, but all it does it make it so that human enemies block 99.99% of the time, which makes combat last longer and become more tedious.

I beat the game with last year's community patch and didn't really notice a difference. It's still a mediocre game and a horrible game by Piranha Byte's standards. No patch can fix that.