Sepharo wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 01:02:
Spiral Knights is hugely successful and it's one of the games that work on "energy" that is limited unless you pay. I've seen what it's done to my friends' wallets despite them saying early on that they would never need to pay.

Sepharo wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 01:02:
Spiral Knights is hugely successful and it's one of the games that work on "energy" that is limited unless you pay. I've seen what it's done to my friends' wallets despite them saying early on that they would never need to pay.

Endo wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 23:16:

Jerykk wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 17:12:

Are you sure about TF2? Quake Live didn't generate much, and all of the "pay more for more weapons" games have failed to do much of anything.

That's pretty much why Quake Live fails as a F2P game. It doesn't have any microtransactions or unlockables. Conversely, TF2 has tons of cosmetic items that apparently sell really well.

People mind paying extra for things they feel should have come with the game. They don't mind paying extra for things that are clearly fluff and extraneous.

Jerykk wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 17:12:

Are you sure about TF2? Quake Live didn't generate much, and all of the "pay more for more weapons" games have failed to do much of anything.

That's pretty much why Quake Live fails as a F2P game. It doesn't have any microtransactions or unlockables. Conversely, TF2 has tons of cosmetic items that apparently sell really well.

Are you sure about TF2? Quake Live didn't generate much, and all of the "pay more for more weapons" games have failed to do much of anything.

Slashman wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 13:13:

Kajetan wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 11:17:

And thats the main problem the majors have nowadays. Budgets are exploding, marketing costs are going through the roof, revenue has to be bigger every year, which requires even MORE marketing. These companies are simply too big. They CANNOT produce games with less money anymore.

That would be valid if the money was going to the development costs of the game instead of buying reviews and 4-page magazine spots.

I'm not saying AAA games should disappear altogether, I'm saying that only doing AAA games is insane. Bigger earning doesn't mean anything if its accompanied by bigger marketing and dev costs.

Something will eventually give. Making the same game with 'AAA' production every year can't work for everyone.

Kajetan wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 11:17:

And thats the main problem the majors have nowadays. Budgets are exploding, marketing costs are going through the roof, revenue has to be bigger every year, which requires even MORE marketing. These companies are simply too big. They CANNOT produce games with less money anymore.

Jerykk wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 12:30:

On the other hand, it's a crowded market that no one has proven is at all lucrative.

There are a lot of F2P games that have been lucrative. Maple Story and League of Legends come to mind as the most obvious. TF2 has also generated more profit since going F2P than it did when it was a retail title.

If there was no proof that F2P could be profitable, nobody would be making F2P games.

On the other hand, it's a crowded market that no one has proven is at all lucrative.

Games as a whole aren't going to step backwards in time just to make money.

You also can't look at consoles and say that those games aren't making any money, when it's the primary source of income for the console makers. The hardware is sold at a loss, they're making money hand over fist on the games themselves, and often on new franchises.

ASeven wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 10:00:
Verno puts it down nicely. The growing exponential costs of developing a game is ensuring that publishers rarely see any profit from their AAA release due to the insane costs of making a AAA game today. As Verno says well you don't need a big budget to make a big, great game. Amnesia, Terraria, Minecraft, Frozen Synapse amongst others are perfect examples of that.

Slashman wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 10:23:
There is a huge amount that can be done with a moderate budget. If the Witcher 2 can get made for around 35 million, why the hell are companies pouring 100 million into a game that may or may not sell well based on nothing but the 'AAA' nametag?

Hobeaux wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 10:34:
You guys are just so crotchety—first you complain that Epic doesn't care about PC gaming, and then when they actually state that they are working on a PC-only title you complain about that too.

Verno wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 10:38:

Hobeaux wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 10:34:
You guys are just so crotchety—first you complain that Epic doesn't care about PC gaming, and then when they actually state that they are working on a PC-only title you complain about that too.

Straw man. People complained because Epic largely ignored the PC platform and because of how they treated people who dared question them about it. Now that the gravy train is back in town their reappearance seems more than a little convenient.

Hobeaux wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 10:34:
You guys are just so crotchety—first you complain that Epic doesn't care about PC gaming, and then when they actually state that they are working on a PC-only title you complain about that too.

Verno wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 09:51:

Xombie wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 09:39:

Indie games, kickstarter, etc

None of these indie games have large budgets. They have simple graphics and concepts that can be done by a few people, there aren't any Half Life 2's or BF2's among them, which need large teams. Even Double Fine's adventure game has a fraction of the budget that was needed to make Brutal Legend. Indie games are good but it is naive to think they're the magic bullet to big-budget games.

It's likewise naive to think that big budget games can continue with the same revenue model. Indie games can be as engrossing with 1/10th the production values and reach a large audience with practically no marketing budget. The industry would be foolhardy to ignore that growing trend. Most DLC doesn't go anywhere near far enough creating a meaningful experience for the cost, especially when compared to indie games that are at a similar price level.