Verno wrote on Apr 4, 2012, 14:49:
I don't grant the premise that the majority in all scenarios (this one sure) but its besides the point. How the developers intend can mean a lot of different things and many people at development companies can't even fully agree on these things. "Best" is subjective and not everyone likes to play games the same way. There's a difference between "playing the game differently" which implies people are somehow subverting the developers vision of the products gameplay and playing the game with a different input mechanism or button layout.

StingingVelvet wrote on Apr 4, 2012, 14:29:
My only point was that the idea of needing to play other than how the developers intended is silly, since the vast majority don't and don't care.

Anyway, anyone arguing AC games control better with KBM is fucking insane.

Verno wrote on Apr 4, 2012, 12:50:

Jerykk wrote on Apr 2, 2012, 13:25:
That's the thing, though. Analog input is not ideal for all things. Sometimes you want absolute precision, something that binary input offers. Firing a gun, for example, should be binary. I shouldn't have to worry about how much I'm pushing the trigger. Flipping a switch should be binary. Jumping should be binary. Sprinting should be binary. Crouching should be binary. Being able to input a larger ranger of values is redundant in many cases and only serves to add a delay where none is needed or wanted.

Exactly. This is also why Velvets "the majority dont need it" response isn't valid. They aren't just releasing a game for console platforms, they are releasing a game for the PC as well and if they want people to buy it then they need to understand some basic control expectations on this platform. A frequent lamentation on consoles is the inability to remap buttons or be forced to use preset layouts.

Jerykk wrote on Apr 2, 2012, 13:25:
That's the thing, though. Analog input is not ideal for all things. Sometimes you want absolute precision, something that binary input offers. Firing a gun, for example, should be binary. I shouldn't have to worry about how much I'm pushing the trigger. Flipping a switch should be binary. Jumping should be binary. Sprinting should be binary. Crouching should be binary. Being able to input a larger ranger of values is redundant in many cases and only serves to add a delay where none is needed or wanted.

Dades wrote on Apr 1, 2012, 15:21:
His point still stands, there is no best way to do controls that work for everyone and designers intent doesn't trump everything. That's why so many games have customizable controls, smart developers recognize that.

What you "need" and what is "best" are two different things.

That's nonsense. A keyboard is either 0 or 100 - there is no in-between; in order to be "precise" you have to hold down the key for a particular length of time, which can be hard to judge. Say you need to turn 35% to the right - with a keyboard you have to hold down the key for a fraction of time or repeatedly press it to get the desired result; with an analog controller you can simply hit anywhere from 25-45% and it will still end up more accurate than the keyboard. An analog controller is more precise for racing. But if you compare it to a mouse - say in games with driving like Borderlands - then the mouse is more accurate.

Jerykk wrote on Mar 30, 2012, 04:58:
Lack of analog control isn't really an issue in most games. Two speeds (slow and max) are all you need for 95% of games. The only games that really benefit from it are racing games and games with fixed camera angles instead of player-controlled cameras.

Jerykk wrote on Mar 30, 2012, 04:58:
On a side note, analog is the exact opposite of precise. It offers a wider range of values than binary input, making it difficult to consistently get the same value twice.

Well that's a different topic altogether, clearly I was speaking of control methods.

And Deus Ex was designed to be emergent.

Jerykk wrote on Mar 31, 2012, 21:54:

A real argument could be made that the "best" way to play is the way the developers designed the game to be played, which is with a pad.

I don't really find that be a compelling argument at all. Some of my favorite games were great because of emergent gameplay (Deus Ex, Tribes, Quake, etc). If we had played the games the way their designers had originally intended, they wouldn't have been nearly as good.

A real argument could be made that the "best" way to play is the way the developers designed the game to be played, which is with a pad.

Verno wrote on Mar 29, 2012, 14:07:
Not really, people should use what they are most comfortable with as personal preference is the most important metric for using an input device. "The best" is too subjective and its basically trying to force personal choices on others.

Creston wrote on Mar 29, 2012, 11:01:

Ventura wrote on Mar 28, 2012, 18:21:
Sounds like it will be a strict copy and paste job to me, but Jerykk seems to think superior visuals and performance awaits him. Good luck with that one, mate - you're going to need it.

Eh, AC:Revelations looked far better on the PC than it did on either the ancient 360 or the decrepit PS3. They provided proper high resolution support, I could turn AF and AA on to the highest levels known to man, and it just kept running along at 60 FPS.

The same thing was true for brotherhood and AC2.

So there's little doubt that it WILL look better on the PC.

Creston

I was just saying to Sepharo last night, if someone can conquer the lack of analog control when using keyboard and mouse, they will get rich. The on or off button presses are the single most limiting aspect of mouse/keyboard.

but games like GTA and Mafia that mix driving with action and shooting I find better overall on controller, as do many others.

PC gaming is about flexibility and confining yourself to just KB+M is neglecting the best aspect of PC gaming - flexibility.

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Mar 29, 2012, 12:24:
My point is that you should use the best input devices available to you. For racing games that is a racing wheel, followed by a controller and lastly KB+M. For platformers like Tomb Raider I find controllers the best. For first persons I've found nothing even comes close to KB+M. PC gaming is about flexibility and confining yourself to just KB+M is neglecting the best aspect of PC gaming - flexibility.

Dev wrote on Mar 29, 2012, 13:49:

Krovven wrote on Mar 29, 2012, 13:29:
I was just saying to Sepharo last night night, if someone can conquer the lack of analog control when using keyboard and mouse, they will get rich. The on or off button presses are the single most limiting aspect of mouse/keyboard.

It would be possible to design a mouse that has a controller mode and has say a middle button or a thumb button with an analog button. Dunno how much of a market there would be, but its possible

Krovven wrote on Mar 29, 2012, 13:29:
I was just saying to Sepharo last night night, if someone can conquer the lack of analog control when using keyboard and mouse, they will get rich. The on or off button presses are the single most limiting aspect of mouse/keyboard.

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Mar 29, 2012, 12:24:
A keyboard is a binary control system - button presses are either 'on' or 'off', with no in-between. A controller has variable sensitivity controls, which allows precision breaking/acceleration and turning. It is objectively better for racing games.

PC gaming is about flexibility and confining yourself to just KB+M is neglecting the best aspect of PC gaming - flexibility.