Darks wrote on Feb 29, 2012, 10:23:

InBlack wrote on Feb 29, 2012, 09:51:
The trailer is damn cool, no gameplay footage though.

Yea it does look nice, but an Atlas does not have jump jets, so that Atlas would end up in pieces on the ground after that drop.

Mechs dropping from a Dropship aren't using their JJ's. They are using a dedicated set of jets (my BT knowledge isn't all that great but I remember this bit) that are discarded after the drop.

eRe4s3r wrote on Mar 1, 2012, 04:37:
Meh, there was nothing wrong with hot dropping entire spaceship dropships straight from the jumpship and not just single mechs.. no reason to change that. In fact that was one of the coolest thing about Battletech, Nobody did air drops because any even half rookie ground trooper would be able to fire a simple stinger (forgot what the equivalent name for that was in BT) at that heat signature and thus take down any and all "flying" mechs

That is not BattleTech at all in flavor. Missiles are sad, sad things in BattleTech (or armor is really good), and there's no such thing as heat tracking (or the countermeasures are excellent). I don't know the specific rules for shooting at a dropping 'Mech, but I would guess that it would be at a penalty to-hit with possibly a chance to hit the disposable jump pack (if applicable) and cause the 'Mech to take falling damage from a catastrophic height. But most probably you'd just hit against armor as normal and the 'Mech would continue on its merry way.

What with the tiny ranges in BattleTech, you probably wouldn't even be allowed to shoot at the 'Mech unless it was dropping right onto your mapsheet.

How do you guys find all this out? Jane's Defence Weekly?

There IS a tactial reason for doing it. You know the actual reason why they are called 'hot' drops in the first place.

If you are dropping into a 'hot' zone, ie a zone that is still contested or occupied by enemy forces it makes sense for an airship to drop its mechs before touching down for two reasons.

First of all if the enemy still has surface-to-air defensive capabilites, one dropship and 4 mechs in the air make 5 targets alltogether compared to just the dropship (1 target) dramatically increasing the chances of any mechs making it safely to the ground. Obviously if even more dropships and mechs are present in the air this chance goes up even further. Think about airborne infantry regiments parachute dropping en-masse behind enemy lines for comparisons.

Likewise airdropping mechs makes sense if you want to get the drop ships out of a hot zone really fast. It takes much less time and fuel to drop mechs from the air, hence increasing the chances of any dropships leaving the area intact after completing said drop.

Meh, there was nothing wrong with hot dropping entire spaceship dropships straight from the jumpship and not just single mechs.. no reason to change that. In fact that was one of the coolest thing about Battletech, Nobody did air drops because any even half rookie ground trooper would be able to fire a simple stinger (forgot what the equivalent name for that was in BT) at that heat signature and thus take down any and all "flying" mechs

eRe4s3r wrote on Mar 1, 2012, 02:47:
Wow, I stand corrected. That is then one of the silliest things I ever heard of, air dropping an 100t Atlas with mounted weapons using disposable jetpacks... a 100t metal brick with 0 aerodynamic ability no less, and legs and arms that could never withstand that.

I refuse to accept such rulesets as valid

It's not a drop from above the upper layers of the atmosphere, so there wouldn't be THAT much stress on the Mech, the jetpack would presumably slow the last stages of descent enough for any impact forces to be negligible.

And you really don't need that much aerodynamic design just for a straight falling object, the Atlas falling feet first already provides the least air resistance and all the jetpacks would have to do is keep it level for the most part.

Well, regardless of whether it's realistic or not, hot drops are still cool.

Wow, I stand corrected. That is then one of the silliest things I ever heard of, air dropping an 100t Atlas with mounted weapons using disposable jetpacks... a 100t metal brick with 0 aerodynamic ability no less, and legs and arms that could never withstand that.

I refuse to accept such rulesets as valid

eRe4s3r wrote on Feb 29, 2012, 21:22:
Wow, talk about creepy. I had the exact same thought, Atlas does not have jump-jets nor capability to jerry rig one. Also in Battletech mechs are nearly never dropped, jump-jets are for jumping, not to survive an air-drop. They are called drop ships because they literally drop down to the ground from space.

Maybe Piranha Game should read the Battletech Tech Manuals for starters? Their lack of attention to detail is discomforting

That's almost entirely wrong. Atmospheric drops were introduced way back in AeroTech, and were described in Technical Readout 3025 under the Union and Overlord entries. From AeroTech II, p.35, Dropping 'Mechs and Battle Armor:

"Battlemechs and battle armor can exit a DropShip under three conditions: on the ground, at high altitude, or in space. Units that exit a DropShip at high altitude descend under the influence of gravity, falling 1 hex per turn... Jump-capable BattleMechs and battle armor suits can use their thrusters to control their descent. Units without jump jets mount special disposable thruster packs that allow them to control their descent and land safely."

I think in the latest iteration of the rules this is in Strategic Operations, which came out way after I'd gotten out of BattleTech, but atmospheric 'Mech drops are totally a thing in the game, and have been ever since DropShips were introduced. That "special disposable thruster pack" is very clearly what the Atlas has going on.

Edit:

Google shows that 'Mech Jump Packs were described in Tactical Operations - "The BattleMech jump pack was developed to give jump-incapable BattleMechs a surprise edge in the early stages of battle, to help them cross particularly difficult terrain features, or to deploy them in combat drops," and that the rules are indeed laid out in Strategic Operations - "’Mechs, ProtoMechs, battle armor, WiGE Vehicles and vehicles with Jumping MP may make atmospheric drops. If a unit than can mount jump jets does not mount jump jets, it may either mount disposable jump jets (which automatically jettison upon touchdown."

This comment was edited on Feb 29, 2012, 23:41.

eRe4s3r wrote on Feb 29, 2012, 21:22:
Wow, talk about creepy. I had the exact same thought, Atlas does not have jump-jets nor capability to jerry rig one. Also in Battletech mechs are nearly never dropped, jump-jets are for jumping, not to survive an air-drop. They are called drop ships because they literally drop down to the ground from space.

Maybe Piranha Game should read the Battletech Tech Manuals for starters? Their lack of attention to detail is discomforting

It looks like that Atlas had some sort of disposable rocket pack on it's back when it fell, it wasn't using it's own JJs. I seem to recall similar setups being used in one or two of the other MW games.

Not sure why the drop is an issue for so many -- as nutshell42 said there has been rules for air/orbital drops in Battletech long before MW ever came out. (and yes they don't use regular JJs, not what they were made for)

Lack of actual gameplay footage is a much better gripe since we all know a pretty trailer doesn't mean a good game.

Wow, talk about creepy. I had the exact same thought, Atlas does not have jump-jets nor capability to jerry rig one. Also in Battletech mechs are nearly never dropped, jump-jets are for jumping, not to survive an air-drop. They are called drop ships because they literally drop down to the ground from space.

Maybe Piranha Game should read the Battletech Tech Manuals for starters? Their lack of attention to detail is discomforting

nutshell42 wrote on Feb 29, 2012, 14:14:

Parias wrote on Feb 29, 2012, 12:27:
This was exactly my thought too, it looked like it dropped with a disposable thrust system to help it get down in one piece.

I'd just like to add that that's not something the Mechwarrior series came up with either. I remember it from an old rules compendium from the mid-90s or something. <- nerd

=)

Also, cool of them to use the exact startup voice from Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries (albeit slightly changed).

Heat level critical. Shutdown sequence initiated...

You know you've played too much Mechwarrior when you swear you remember hearing a feminine voice notifying you of damaged and shut-down systems, during an auto accident.
I didn't even know my Geo Metro had an ER PPC.

The Half Elf wrote on Feb 29, 2012, 10:32:
Judging by the poly's and texture's of the scene, it appears to be in game (maybe just using the game assets for the cut scene?), and if it is I am getting my hopes up.
Granted it's not officially in-game, but as Darks said, whoever was piloting that Atlas is now dead.

But at least we are now seeing SOMETHING other then concept art.

Cutter I think I'm gonna cry.

Wtf was that? What's with washed-out console textures?! And yes, sadly it did drop like a lead zeppelin as opposed to a Led Zeppelin which is all kick-ass rock'n'roll! I think I'm giving up on this game now.

I'm guessing they changed it from "All systems nominal" to "All systems online" to highlight the fact that the game is "all online". Still, it gave my nostalgia a bit of whiplash to hear that change, ha.

Parias wrote on Feb 29, 2012, 12:27:
This was exactly my thought too, it looked like it dropped with a disposable thrust system to help it get down in one piece.

I'd just like to add that that's not something the Mechwarrior series came up with either. I remember it from an old rules compendium from the mid-90s or something. <- nerd

=)

Also, cool of them to use the exact startup voice from Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries (albeit slightly changed).

Heat level critical. Shutdown sequence initiated...

I've expressed my concerns over the direction this game might go, but I really like the design and detail attributes displayed in this trailer. If they stick to a proper MW formula (particularly diverse controls and 'sim' aspects), this could be a very worthy successor. If it plays like a dumbed down FPS designed for thumb-twiddling kiddie console controls, then I'll pass.

Shataan wrote on Feb 29, 2012, 13:24:
Ok, where is the real teaser trailer?

This pretty much IS the definition of a teaser trailer; no gameplay, very short, and only meant to generate interest before more in depth material is released.

Trailers? After that totally misleading Dead Island trailer, why would anyone care about trailers? They aren't even made by the same company that is making the game, way too often. Show me actual gameplay, the stuff I will be actually seeing most of the time.

Ok, where is the real teaser trailer?

Razumen wrote on Feb 29, 2012, 11:31:

Darks wrote on Feb 29, 2012, 10:23:

InBlack wrote on Feb 29, 2012, 09:51:
The trailer is damn cool, no gameplay footage though.

Yea it does look nice, but an Atlas does not have jump jets, so that Atlas would end up in pieces on the ground after that drop.

While not as noticeable as it could have been, if you look you'll see that the Atlas drops with an some sort attachment on it's back. It's likely that it's a sort of one time dropjet system like the ones in MW4.

This was exactly my thought too, it looked like it dropped with a disposable thrust system to help it get down in one piece.

Also, cool of them to use the exact startup voice from Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries (albeit slightly changed).