As a developer I think that people who worry about data mining (anonymous usage stats) are idiotic. And as a denizen of the internet I think people who worry about their privacy are naive. My only concern about the collection of my private information is how it can be used against me (prosecution ) not how it will be used to benefit me or the collector. Evidence gets thrown out all the time, I just hope private information obtained illegally or without my consent will be thrown out as well.

Sepharo wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 01:05:
Ugh... I was just pointing out that you're putting words in people's mouths. I don't even care about the topic, it's the flow of the conversation that I made an observation about.

You're so damn antagonistic you're getting frothy at the mouth over things that haven't even been said. Go back and read it, they're not even the same people either.

And this is the damn Titan thread.

Fair enough, but what do you think the guy who said this won't be used to make games better was implying?
And in the Minecraft thread people said flat-out data will be sold.

I'm saying that's impossible. This data can only be used for one thing, and that's making games better. It cannot be sold to advertisers.

I get antagonistic when people are being intentionally idiotic. Claiming that video game companies can sell in-game stats is beyond moronic. No one gives a shit about it. But some people here are so caught up in the "everyone is evil but me" attitude that they never stop to think out their insane conspiracy theories. They just assume corporations are Dr. Doofenshmirtz and evil for the sake of evil. They're not. They're sociopaths, sure, and need to be reigned in, but if a theory can't show a clear path to profit it isn't something they do. They're sociopaths, not underwear gnomes. They're easily predictable.

Ugh... I was just pointing out that you're putting words in people's mouths. I don't even care about the topic, it's the flow of the conversation that I made an observation about.

You're so damn antagonistic you're getting frothy at the mouth over things that haven't even been said. Go back and read it, they're not even the same people either.

And this is the damn Titan thread.

Sepharo wrote on Jan 25, 2012, 21:11:

Beamer wrote on Jan 25, 2012, 20:50:

Sepharo wrote on Jan 25, 2012, 20:06:
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, but I don't think he was talking about gameplay stats being sent to corporations who advertise.

When most people throw around the term "data farming" I think they mean name, address, birthday, purchasing habits, etc.

Yeah, none of which is being collected by video game companies while you play their games.

True, but not a point I was trying to make.

But your point is irrelevant. That other companies sell your stuff is true. Sleazy internet ad companies do this like mad.

But we're not discussing this. We're discussing video games, and specifically Minecraft at that. People are terrified that video game play stats will be sold.

To fucking who?

Beamer wrote on Jan 25, 2012, 20:50:

Sepharo wrote on Jan 25, 2012, 20:06:
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, but I don't think he was talking about gameplay stats being sent to corporations who advertise.

When most people throw around the term "data farming" I think they mean name, address, birthday, purchasing habits, etc.

Yeah, none of which is being collected by video game companies while you play their games.

True, but not a point I was trying to make.

Sepharo wrote on Jan 25, 2012, 20:06:

Beamer wrote on Jan 25, 2012, 08:11:
I have no idea what you think it's being used for.
Do you think P&G cares if it took an average player 25 minutes to find a solution to an in-game puzzle?
Do you think Unilever cares that the shotgun gets used 40% of the time and guns with more plentiful ammo are ignored?
Do you think SCJ cares that most Steam users have quad core by this point?

Fuck no. It's being used to better optomize games. Christ, some of the fear mongering here is insane. Use your brain. Video game companies can use this information to better see what works and what doesn't work, what gets used and what doesn't get used, etc., and better balance patches/new games. But the data is useless to other companies. Utterly useless.
I'd love to hear 3 scenarios you people (you people!) can imagine in which an advertiser cares what the hell you did in Half Life 2.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, but I don't think he was talking about gameplay stats being sent to corporations who advertise.

When most people throw around the term "data farming" I think they mean name, address, birthday, purchasing habits, etc.

Yeah, none of which is being collected by video game companies while you play their games.

Beamer wrote on Jan 25, 2012, 08:11:
I have no idea what you think it's being used for.
Do you think P&G cares if it took an average player 25 minutes to find a solution to an in-game puzzle?
Do you think Unilever cares that the shotgun gets used 40% of the time and guns with more plentiful ammo are ignored?
Do you think SCJ cares that most Steam users have quad core by this point?

Fuck no. It's being used to better optomize games. Christ, some of the fear mongering here is insane. Use your brain. Video game companies can use this information to better see what works and what doesn't work, what gets used and what doesn't get used, etc., and better balance patches/new games. But the data is useless to other companies. Utterly useless.
I'd love to hear 3 scenarios you people (you people!) can imagine in which an advertiser cares what the hell you did in Half Life 2.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, but I don't think he was talking about gameplay stats being sent to corporations who advertise.

When most people throw around the term "data farming" I think they mean name, address, birthday, purchasing habits, etc.

Kajetan wrote on Jan 25, 2012, 05:14:

Beamer wrote on Jan 24, 2012, 18:02:
It's being used to make products better.

You're a funny guy.

I have no idea what you think it's being used for.
Do you think P&G cares if it took an average player 25 minutes to find a solution to an in-game puzzle?
Do you think Unilever cares that the shotgun gets used 40% of the time and guns with more plentiful ammo are ignored?
Do you think SCJ cares that most Steam users have quad core by this point?

Fuck no. It's being used to better optomize games. Christ, some of the fear mongering here is insane. Use your brain. Video game companies can use this information to better see what works and what doesn't work, what gets used and what doesn't get used, etc., and better balance patches/new games. But the data is useless to other companies. Utterly useless.
I'd love to hear 3 scenarios you people (you people!) can imagine in which an advertiser cares what the hell you did in Half Life 2.

Beamer wrote on Jan 24, 2012, 18:02:
It's being used to make products better.

You're a funny guy.

Ch3rub wrote on Jan 24, 2012, 17:27:

chickenboo wrote on Jan 24, 2012, 12:44:
In-game advertisements, the proliferation of Play2Win models, data farming at every opportunity, endless hype to deliver a mediocre product... video games have fallen so far from how I knew them as a child and a teen. Maybe it's time to move on to rock climbing or something.

The sad part is that you're 100% right.... I really miss the times when games were about gaming and not just making money. Now it's Indy games or.. rock climbing

Data farming isn't about making money. No one is selling this data. It's being used to make products better.
And that "endless hype" has always been here.

chickenboo wrote on Jan 24, 2012, 12:44:
In-game advertisements, the proliferation of Play2Win models, data farming at every opportunity, endless hype to deliver a mediocre product... video games have fallen so far from how I knew them as a child and a teen. Maybe it's time to move on to rock climbing or something.

The sad part is that you're 100% right.... I really miss the times when games were about gaming and not just making money. Now it's Indy games or.. rock climbing

It's been long rumored that Titan would be a casual MMOG. I think this here is further evidence to that.

"...enhances the gameplay experience."
I love this. How do ads enhance gameplay? Why would I enjoy looking at an advertisement inside a game? This is a moneygrab plain and simple.

In-game advertisements, the proliferation of Play2Win models, data farming at every opportunity, endless hype to deliver a mediocre product... video games have fallen so far from how I knew them as a child and a teen. Maybe it's time to move on to rock climbing or something.

Microsoft sold Massive, true, but they have their own in-house in-game advertising team. "In and Around Game," actually.


Ads in games can work fine. They just rarely do. I typically point to Def Jam as a game that got this right, as they were subtle and fit the world. Of course, that game is now 8 or so years old and was, in itself, pretty much just an advertisement, so it being the best example I can come up with says quite a bit.

I dislike advertisements in general, they are rarely amusing and it doesn't make up for the collective dreck the rest entail. It's one of the reasons I stopped subbing to Xbox Live, they kept getting more numerous and obnoxious. I suspect they were slowing down loading of the user interface as well, I don't know if that was ever addressed or particularly care anymore. Ads in games is pretty dumb as they tend to be unrelated to the game content and instead are jarring to the player.

CommunistHamster wrote on Jan 24, 2012, 07:37:
Advertising agencies are deluded.

Advertising agencies who still believe that ingame advertising is TEH NEW SHIT! As i said, MS sold Massive, their own ingame advertising branch, two years ago because ingame advertising is not working as intended. Potential advertisers are weary because ad reception ingame is very, very low. Much lower than in other media. Prices dropped, estimated income figures had to be drastically corrected downwards.

Nowadays, ingame advertising is a nice little additional income for the publishers, but not the major business model it was supposed to be a few years ago.

Advertising agencies are deluded.

How do you know there would be ads in the future? Maybe the populace got sick of their corp overlords and squashed the flood of advertisements on tv and everywhere else. Maybe it would be more of a gated community type of thing where political signs on your lawn and any class-less advertising pollution in public is outlawed. Or maybe the mass public would be so in debt, poor, or jobless that most advertising would be wasted on them.

Futurama episode where in the far future the character "Fry" is upset when he starts having dreams with advertising in them:

"Leela: Didn't you have ads in the 21st century?"
Fry: Well sure, but not in our dreams. Only on TV and radio, and in magazines, and movies, and at ball games... and on buses and milk cartons and t-shirts, and bananas and written on the sky. But not in dreams, no siree"

The Half Elf wrote on Jan 23, 2012, 22:25:
Say for example if Titan was (just for shits and giggles) a futuristic game with a Deus Ex Human Revolution feel, or Blade Runner feel, then yeah I could see advertisements working, IF they are done to enhance the feel of the game.

I hope this is right, the ad's in Blade Runner felt fine. It just depends how in your face and appropriate the ads are if their in the context of a city environment. The in game ads I remember were the ones that Anacrhy Online put in - and that's only because have billboards for "Motley Crue" all every city was just ridiculous.

Still if it is a city then a collection of non-time specific ads would fit. Futuristic coke advert - fine. Advert for this week's Glee - not so fine.

In fact if it is a futuristic city style environment then a complete lack of ads would be disconcerting - and they may as well sell ad space then have to actively make fake ads.

Its never enough. There are people bent on squeezing every last drop of blood they can from the herd. Its always the way - creativity, artistry, workmanship vs insatiable gluttony. Its not enough to be fat, they become morbidly obese with wealth. Insatiable, eventually the bottom falls out and we are all left swimming in sh*t.
.
The pressure on such a popular franchise, legally, morally, or via other coercion must be enormous.

Regarding toys, take a look at the start wars franchise revenue.. Perhaps another factor regarding why the movies turned to s*ck after empire (imo lol).
[url=]http://www.statisticbrain.com/star-wars-total-franchise-revenue/[/url]