Blizz would have rolled back Honor for everyone if these were shenanigans in WoW, so for BW to investigate and selectively penalize is a step in the right direction.

Wait, didn't they just announce that there was NO valor gained from turret and NPC kills? Or was it an attempt to misdirect and misinform as to the extent of the problem since it was the valor from player kills that was the issue.

Yeah after the first year or so, but doing a rollback of just a specific system of a MMO probably wasn't on the design docket and was added as it was needed/required by the devs.

Fight! Fight! Fight!

Dev wrote on Jan 20, 2012, 21:38:
Wait, didn't they just announce that there was NO valor gained from turret and NPC kills? Or was it an attempt to misdirect and misinform as to the extent of the problem since it was the valor from player kills that was the issue.

I think they're talking about another issue that actually happened where hordes of players would camp all the medcenters, and kill enemy players one at a time the instant they spawned. Since the medical probe doesn't give long enough stealth to get away from a huge group, and you can only choose to spawn at the nearest medcenter, the only option for spawn camped players was to simply stop playing.

It was a one-day bug that allowed them to camp medcenters, not intended behavior. That sort of spawn camping seems like unambiguious greifing under the circumstances. I don't think offending players should be banned, but a targeted valor rollback might do a little to placate the frustrated victims.

This comment was edited on Jan 20, 2012, 22:51.

and again Bioware punishes people for playing their broken game in a way that's allowed by the system.

?

Creston

Creston wrote on Jan 20, 2012, 23:18:
and again Bioware punishes people for playing their broken game in a way that's allowed by the system. Creston

Because this is the first time this has ever happened in any MMO, ever, and Bioware is the first developer to punish players for "creative use of game mechanics" ...

RIGHT. If I had a dollar for any time a developer had to rollback or take action against a player, guild or raid group for cheesing a loot system, Honor system, or in general using a bug to their advantage... I'd be a rich man.

Don't make Bioware out to be some huge badguy here. This happens very often, in many MMOs. Just recently, Blizzard took action against raids who cheesed the LFR loot system, exploiting it, in patch 4.3... a patch that was on PTR for weeks upon weeks.

Doombringer wrote on Jan 20, 2012, 23:37:
This happens very often, in many MMOs.

You'd think that developers would learn from past mistakes then, wouldn't you?

Alas, no. MMOs are not, in general, and never have been about making a good product. They're always cash grabs that see the "developer" riding it down to the bitter end, shutting down the studio and then opening up under a new name for yet another MMO cash grab. Lather, rinse and repeat.

Any action taken by a player within the systems and mechanics created by the developer which in any way possibly threatens that monetary stream is consistently met with a draconian response. Why? Because, again, it's not about the game and never was. It's not about the player base. That's all bullshit window dressing.

The one thing I'll give CCP is that they are one of the few honest MMO purveyors. They largely don't give a fuck what you do in Eve so long as the cash keeps rolling in.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Jan 20, 2012, 23:57:

Doombringer wrote on Jan 20, 2012, 23:37:
This happens very often, in many MMOs.

You'd think that developers would learn from past mistakes then, wouldn't you?

Alas, no. MMOs are not, in general, and never have been about making a good product. They're always cash grabs that see the "developer" riding it down to the bitter end, shutting down the studio and then opening up under a new name for yet another MMO cash grab. Lather, rinse and repeat.

Any action taken by a player within the systems and mechanics created by the developer which in any way possibly threatens that monetary stream is consistently met with a draconian response. Why? Because, again, it's not about the game and never was. It's not about the player base. That's all bullshit window dressing.

The one thing I'll give CCP is that they are one of the few honest MMO purveyors. They largely don't give a fuck what you do in Eve so long as the cash keeps rolling in.

If its not about making a good product then why do millions of people play them? Every game made is about making money its called a business. The ones that make crap ass games usually go under pretty quick... usually. How NC soft makes it is beyond me, they fit the bill of greedy crappy game makers spot on.

Illumin wrote on Jan 21, 2012, 00:15:
If its not about making a good product then why do millions of people play them?

Ask Zynga. How many people still play "game"-ville, Mafia Wars and crap like that?

Popularity does not equate to quality. The Pinto, for example, was at one time wildly popular.

Yes, a business is run to make a profit. However, even in business there is a notion called "ethics". Bill Roper made a profit with Flagship Studios. Is what he did with Hellgate London and its customers ethical in terms of good will, good faith, long term profitability and brand trust?

Burrito of Peace wrote on Jan 20, 2012, 23:57:

Doombringer wrote on Jan 20, 2012, 23:37:
This happens very often, in many MMOs.

You'd think that developers would learn from past mistakes then, wouldn't you?

Alas, no. MMOs are not, in general, and never have been about making a good product. They're always cash grabs that see the "developer" riding it down to the bitter end, shutting down the studio and then opening up under a new name for yet another MMO cash grab. Lather, rinse and repeat.

Any action taken by a player within the systems and mechanics created by the developer which in any way possibly threatens that monetary stream is consistently met with a draconian response. Why? Because, again, it's not about the game and never was. It's not about the player base. That's all bullshit window dressing.

The one thing I'll give CCP is that they are one of the few honest MMO purveyors. They largely don't give a fuck what you do in Eve so long as the cash keeps rolling in.

Are you serious or stupid?
The bugs happened on Illum were due to MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF PLAYERS on the map. You think a dev can stress test 100's or 1000's of players hammering a game system? Maybe for server loading, but even during the beta they never had anywhere near the number of high end characters as they currently do on the live servers.

And please, no seriously, please never EVER use the word honest to describe CCP.

You think a dev can stress test 100's or 1000's of players hammering a game system?

No, but they should at least have had something to balance the sides, be it a buff for the minority that scales, or what have you.

How they could not see that train wreck coming is beyond me.

If millions of people like Mafia wars then yes it is good for those millions of people thats a fact. Millions of people listen to rap music too, personally i hate it but that dosn't make it shit for the millions that love it. Its all taste / opinion if millions of sheep, er people want to part with their hard earned money on games they consider to be fun/ good quality so be it.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Jan 20, 2012, 23:57:
The one thing I'll give CCP is that they are one of the few honest MMO purveyors. They largely don't give a fuck what you do in Eve so long as the cash keeps rolling in.

CCP? Honest MMO? BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You're forgetting about how they'd play favorites in the end PvP content and ensure certain factions would win?

Or when CCP would help hook up certain friends who played the game with high-end schematics so that they could corner the market?

Or the other shenanigans that CCP has repeatedly enagaged in that would be morally dubious in any other business endeavor?

Burrito of Peace wrote on Jan 21, 2012, 00:55:

Illumin wrote on Jan 21, 2012, 00:15:
If its not about making a good product then why do millions of people play them?

Ask Zynga. How many people still play "game"-ville, Mafia Wars and crap like that?

Popularity does not equate to quality. The Pinto, for example, was at one time wildly popular.

Yes, a business is run to make a profit. However, even in business there is a notion called "ethics". Bill Roper made a profit with Flagship Studios. Is what he did with Hellgate London and its customers ethical in terms of good will, good faith, long term profitability and brand trust?

Yikes... you keep digging your hole deeper.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Jan 20, 2012, 23:57:
Alas, no. MMOs are not, in general, and never have been about making a good product. They're always cash grabs that see the "developer" riding it down to the bitter end, shutting down the studio and then opening up under a new name for yet another MMO cash grab. Lather, rinse and repeat.

You don't see many single player games that the same people are still enjoying ten years later. Quality and innovation have stagnated in MMO's over the past half decade or so, but we're not close to the point where you can make a blanket statement like that yet. For a developer like, say, Cryptic, and probably the vast majority of Asian grindfests? Yes, you're right. For others, not so much.

So people who were playing the game, within the rules of the game, will be penalised for the lack of forsight by the patch creators / developers?

Glad I cancelled my account.

s1mon75 wrote on Jan 21, 2012, 07:00:
So people who were playing the game, within the rules of the game, will be penalised for the lack of forsight by the patch creators / developers?

Glad I cancelled my account.

It's called an exploit. It happens all the time in multiplayer games. Ruining the game for others just because you can and then getting called on it doesn't make you a victim, regardless of how crappy the patch was.

s1mon75 wrote on Jan 21, 2012, 07:00:
So people who were playing the game, within the rules of the game, will be penalised for the lack of forsight by the patch creators / developers?

Glad I cancelled my account.

If what those people were doing doesn't SCREAM exploit to you, then I'm glad you cancelled your account too. One less retard looking to abuse game mechanics to ruin other peoples' experiences.

I'll bet you're a hypocrite too and were one of the people screaming for bans over people that used exploits in CoD or Battlefield.

s1mon75 wrote on Jan 21, 2012, 07:00:
So people who were playing the game, within the rules of the game, will be penalised for the lack of forsight by the patch creators / developers?

Glad I cancelled my account.

Now if you'd just cancel your life this world would be a smarter place.