RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming

John Carmack tweets about plans for a new texture option in the upcoming patch for the Windows PC edition" of RAGE, id's new first person shooter: "We have a bicubic-upsample+detail texture option for the next PC patch that will help alleviate the blurry textures in Rage." A follow up tweet offers more on this: "@DesignerDon our first test of a higher res page file didn't help much, because most source textures didn't actually have any more detail."
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149 Replies. 8 pages. Viewing page 4.
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89.
 
The way I see it....
Oct 16, 2011, 10:38
89.
The way I see it.... Oct 16, 2011, 10:38
Oct 16, 2011, 10:38
 
They hyped the fox outta this game. Now think about this. The level design AND modelling is freaking amazing... right? Well, these things FORCE us to take a real close look. At least I wanna look at everything closer.

So it is when you take that closer look, that is where the textures let everyone down. Had this been a flight sim or a racing game only, all would be fine and dandy. But, it is an RPGlike fps. Upclose and friendly.

Peeps expected the texture work to at least match the rest of the game. And for the ball to be dropped on PC like this, well it smacks of lazyazz codework, from the peeps you`d LEAST and last expect that to happen with.

If this fix actually comes, I will give the sp game another go JUST to hang around and look closer. It might have a pretty dramatic effect. The difference to me being RAGE outta the gates was more like a water color painting.

After the patch, it might actually look high rez.
88.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 09:43
88.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 09:43
Oct 16, 2011, 09:43
 
Jerykk wrote on Oct 16, 2011, 07:21:
Agreed. Technically, RAGE may have completely unique textures but it doesn't really feel like it when the textures all look so similar. And that's really the inherent problem with the whole idea; if you want to maintain some semblance of thematic consistency, you're going to have a lot of similar textures. There's no way around it. 99.9% of players won't even notice that the textures are slightly different. Nobody is going to carefully compare the textures of every rock or wall they see. I just can't really see any game benefiting from this technology.

I've been saying this on the Steam forums since the game came out, but the fanboys over there are too blinded by devotion to JC to care.

Nobody really notices or cares that this rock has a slightly different texture than that rock or that this mountain has a slightly different texture than that mountain. But people DO easily notice blurry textures. Why Carmack thought this was a good way to go is beyond me. It makes no sense.
87.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 09:24
87.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 09:24
Oct 16, 2011, 09:24
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Oct 16, 2011, 08:49:
How did Rage fail you in this regard? It looks much better than the console versions, it works just fine and it plays great in my experience with KBM, barring a couple rare menu issues.
No graphics options out-of-the-box. Horrible mouse acceleration in menus. 'Press Enter' to start. Textures optimised for 720p (as stated by Carmack at QuakeCON 2011) and consoles - no consideration made for digital distribution on PC. Poor inventory system (no click-and-drag). Console optimised quick-menu for weapons - you cannot change secondary ammo types for a weapon outside your quick-four. Quicksave actually pauses the game.

Plus Carmack admitted they were too focused on the console version, which is patently obvious at this point.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Avatar 22891
86.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 09:18
86.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 09:18
Oct 16, 2011, 09:18
 
I was accused of cherry-picking and of picking an area with poor lighting in RAGE. So, here's comparison number two:

Crysis 2 close-up 2
RAGE close-up 2 / close-up 3 / close-up 4 / close-up 5

Far Cry 2 up-close / up-close 2 / up-close 3
RAGE close-up 6 / close-up 7 / close-up 8

As you can see, it's not just one or two areas in RAGE that look bad. It's everywhere. It's as backwards step for the genre. That's NOT to say that RAGE does look good in places. But when playing RAGE I found the incredibly lowly quality textures grabbed my attention. Dead City being particularly bad. It's not just that I'm trying to find the worst aspects of the game - I just simply bashed the F12 (Steam's screenshot tool) when I noticed it.

It would have made more sense to use tiling for the majority of textures and use MegaTextures to enhance certain scenes, like in the towns or any area you spend more time. By applying it to the entire game they have compromised the general texture quality and dramatically increased the size of the game. It was not an improvement, like the PR suggested.

PS - The poor textures are only a fraction of the games issues. Terrible auto-saves, invisible walls, doors that close behind you every other room to keep you moving forward, tedious fetch missions, whack-a-mole AI (despite doing some new things that are pretty cool), etc. The game is still pretty enjoyable, the combat is especially satisfying, but it could have been a much, much better game.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Avatar 22891
85.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 08:49
85.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 08:49
Oct 16, 2011, 08:49
 
Prez wrote on Oct 16, 2011, 08:26:
All I ask is that the game be made to work properly on a PC, be released within a reasonable amount of time following the console release (if a concurrent release is not possible for whatever reason), and not be uglier than it is on the console. Even if it only can match the consoles visuals, I at least get the benefit of higher resolutions and adjustable AA and such.

As far as the game itself, it looks pretty good gameplay-wise and I will undoubtedly pick it up at some point in the future (just not for full price).

How did Rage fail you in this regard? It looks much better than the console versions, it works just fine and it plays great in my experience with KBM, barring a couple rare menu issues.

I'm with you really, I try not to get mad at multiplatform games for not playing like PC exclusives. I try not to get irritated by the lack of improvements and focus on what's there being the best it can be (higher res, AA, mouse aim, etc.). That's my quality standard and if a multiplatform game ends up playing like a real PC game, like say Deus Ex: HR, then it's an awesome bonus.

Very few games are worse on PC than console. VERY few. Splinter Cell Double Agent, Saint's Row 2 and Resident Evil 4 are rare examples (and even those are arguable with mods and tweaks applied).
Avatar 54622
84.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 08:46
84.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 08:46
Oct 16, 2011, 08:46
 
Jerykk wrote on Oct 16, 2011, 03:37:
It only makes sense if your only (not primary - only) goals it to make money.

You hit it right on the head. Professional game development is a business, first and foremost. Publishers don't exist to innovate. They exist to profit. Right now, developing for consoles is how you maximize profit. Publishers don't care that console hardware is obsolete. They only care that the vast majority of consumers use console hardware to play games.

I'm not saying I agree with this mentality. I'd love for publishers to focus on PC development and really push the boundaries of both innovation and technology. However, what I want and what reality demands are sometimes two very different things. There's no point in getting frustrated about it because your anger isn't going to change a thing. If you want things to change, you'll have to do one of the following:

1) Become an indie developer that creates PC-exclusive games that are innovative and technically amazing.
2) Create a publisher that funds innovative and technically amazing PC-exclusives.
3) Boycott any games that aren't PC-exclusive.

Exxaaactly.

People who complain about EA only wanting money baffle me. What do you want them to be motivated by? They're a corporation, they only exist to make money for their shareholders. That's it, that's their entire purpose. Same with Bethesda, same with Activision, same with any gaming company. Even most indies are looking to pay the rent first and foremost, they just see innovation as the way to do that because they don't have the dev budget to focus on much else.
Avatar 54622
83.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 08:26
Prez
 
83.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 08:26
Oct 16, 2011, 08:26
 Prez
 
1) Become an indie developer that creates PC-exclusive games that are innovative and technically amazing.
2) Create a publisher that funds innovative and technically amazing PC-exclusives.
3) Boycott any games that aren't PC-exclusive.

Well, I couldn't code my way out of a paper bag, I don't have the money (or business sense) to finance and publish games, and I'm not into boycotts because they don't work and only serve to make you look like a tool with no life. I would never be so short-sighted as to stop playing any game that was released for consoles and ported to PC, because there are to many stellar ones I'd be missing.

All I ask is that the game be made to work properly on a PC, be released within a reasonable amount of time following the console release (if a concurrent release is not possible for whatever reason), and not be uglier than it is on the console. Even if it only can match the consoles visuals, I at least get the benefit of higher resolutions and adjustable AA and such.

As far as the game itself, it looks pretty good gameplay-wise and I will undoubtedly pick it up at some point in the future (just not for full price).
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
82.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 07:59
82.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 07:59
Oct 16, 2011, 07:59
 
Just finished Rage a few minutes ago. Played it a Hard difficulty and felt it was too easy.

When I could snipe, of course I'm gonna snipe. That did cost me money at the store for sniper rifle ammo. If the mobs get shot in the head, they will always stick their head out a second time. Kinda ruins it. Wish they had been a little smarter. Mobs should get sniper rifles too. I did like how they would use grenades.

Don't think I'll play through it again. Tired of invisible walls.

Avatar 24272
81.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 07:21
81.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 07:21
Oct 16, 2011, 07:21
 
At the end of the day, that is my core issue with the tech. Presuming it is ready for today's hardware, did id actually utilize it effectively? Only towards the end of the game do you see *some* inkling of variety. But again, that speaks to a game held back by its technology, a poor game design, and/or an engine that has such a steep learning curve that the game suffered from it.

Agreed. Technically, RAGE may have completely unique textures but it doesn't really feel like it when the textures all look so similar. And that's really the inherent problem with the whole idea; if you want to maintain some semblance of thematic consistency, you're going to have a lot of similar textures. There's no way around it. 99.9% of players won't even notice that the textures are slightly different. Nobody is going to carefully compare the textures of every rock or wall they see. I just can't really see any game benefiting from this technology.
Avatar 20715
80.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 07:13
80.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 07:13
Oct 16, 2011, 07:13
 
But id made a FPS. What was the chance that people were going to look at things up close from a direct, first person perspective? Again, I would assert that id's design was a failure in regards to the technology it was utilizing.

From a broader sense, you're arguing for what? A wide range of low-resolution textures that should only be viewed from ten feet away? Even looking at the argument of variety - which I admit can be a strong one - did id really deliver on this? Do we see a wide range of environments? Graphical effects? Enemies? Fantastic images? A completely original, groundbreaking world? Or is this just a game of brown and gray walls, dust-filled landscape, rocks, and rubble? Great, I have 100 versions of a gray, low-resolution wall. I would have much rather taken 50 higher resolution walls in this case or, putting the resolution issue aside, a true variety of walls: 10 gray, 10 red, 10 orange, 10 blue, 10 graffiti, etc. Further, given how confined this game is, what was the benefit of the so-called variety? Is there no appreciation for the actual gameplay of a game???
Derp derp.
At the end of the day, that is my core issue with the tech. Presuming it is ready for today's hardware, did id actually utilize it effectively? Only towards the end of the game do you see *some* inkling of variety. But again, that speaks to a game held back by its technology, a poor game design, and/or an engine that has such a steep learning curve that the game suffered from it.

Thinking the tech trumped the game (yet again for id,)
Ray
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Avatar 2647
79.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 06:52
79.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 06:52
Oct 16, 2011, 06:52
 
creatorswhim wrote on Oct 16, 2011, 06:44:
y'all are a bunch of bitches. cryin' over "it ain't perfect" and "i can't get it to run at 60fps." performance game needs performance tuning, so stop yer cryin' and grab a text editor.

What? People are complaining about the low-res textures, not framerate. Sadly, there's currently no way to fix the low-res textures through .cfg tweaks.
Avatar 20715
78.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 06:44
78.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 06:44
Oct 16, 2011, 06:44
 
y'all are a bunch of bitches. cryin' over "it ain't perfect" and "i can't get it to run at 60fps." performance game needs performance tuning, so stop yer cryin' and grab a text editor.
77.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 05:59
77.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 05:59
Oct 16, 2011, 05:59
 
I think the vast majority have already bought it, and that's the problem. The product they bought is faulty and they have every right to complain about it.
76.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 05:44
76.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 05:44
Oct 16, 2011, 05:44
 
Jerykk wrote on Oct 16, 2011, 03:37:
It only makes sense if your only (not primary - only) goals it to make money.

You hit it right on the head. Professional game development is a business, first and foremost. Publishers don't exist to innovate. They exist to profit. Right now, developing for consoles is how you maximize profit. Publishers don't care that console hardware is obsolete. They only care that the vast majority of consumers use console hardware to play games.

I'm not saying I agree with this mentality. I'd love for publishers to focus on PC development and really push the boundaries of both innovation and technology. However, what I want and what reality demands are sometimes two very different things. There's no point in getting frustrated about it because your anger isn't going to change a thing. If you want things to change, you'll have to do one of the following:

1) Become an indie developer that creates PC-exclusive games that are innovative and technically amazing.
2) Create a publisher that funds innovative and technically amazing PC-exclusives.
3) Boycott any games that aren't PC-exclusive.

i agree with this and this is very correct....lot of people here always complain about this game..if you hate this game then dont buy it...simple.....
75.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 03:37
75.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 03:37
Oct 16, 2011, 03:37
 
It only makes sense if your only (not primary - only) goals it to make money.

You hit it right on the head. Professional game development is a business, first and foremost. Publishers don't exist to innovate. They exist to profit. Right now, developing for consoles is how you maximize profit. Publishers don't care that console hardware is obsolete. They only care that the vast majority of consumers use console hardware to play games.

I'm not saying I agree with this mentality. I'd love for publishers to focus on PC development and really push the boundaries of both innovation and technology. However, what I want and what reality demands are sometimes two very different things. There's no point in getting frustrated about it because your anger isn't going to change a thing. If you want things to change, you'll have to do one of the following:

1) Become an indie developer that creates PC-exclusive games that are innovative and technically amazing.
2) Create a publisher that funds innovative and technically amazing PC-exclusives.
3) Boycott any games that aren't PC-exclusive.
Avatar 20715
74.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 03:36
74.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 03:36
Oct 16, 2011, 03:36
 
Jackplug wrote on Oct 16, 2011, 03:21:
I wonder how Doom 4 is going to be recieved, it uses the same engine.

Less worried about the engine and more worried about the content being downgraded to some sort of PG-13 type affair.

Doom 3 felt more like a zombie shooter, I want to be creeped out - like you're stepping into an H.R. Giger painting with a shotgun. Perhaps it was Romero who was responsible for all the severed goat heads on spikes and levels where it looked like human flesh stretched out onto the walls like bearskin rugs.

I doubt they'll go that intense since they don't want to offend the soccer moms who buy games for their kids to play on their console.
Avatar 6174
73.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 03:21
73.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 03:21
Oct 16, 2011, 03:21
 
I wonder how Doom 4 is going to be recieved, it uses the same engine.
Avatar 52166
72.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 03:13
72.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 03:13
Oct 16, 2011, 03:13
 
Anyways, just finished the game. Ending was a little abrupt, no big bad boss battle at the end. Oh how I miss you Cyberdemon.

People spazing out about some blurry textures, I recall Quake 2 not exactly having the sharpest textures but I enjoyed playing it all the way through.

Gameplay > Graphics

The gameplay in rage was so-so, they didn't quite nail the death race 2000 effect, it felt more like just a casual mini-game. I would say the original Lego Racers game I remember playing was both more challenging and more fun.

I was sort of hoping for something like Motorstorm with weapons but no such luck.

It's a decent shooter, it's all about the pop rockets (mini rocket/grenade ammo for your shotgun) Getting my hands on the authority mini-gun at the end of the game was really stupid, the BFG ammo for the thing will leave you scratching your head. Insane build up time till it "detonates" which leaves you vulnerable, pop rockets are much more satisfying as they leave a huge pile of gibs and blood.

Worth the $20 I spent on it from some cd-key outlet place, I don't think I'd pick up any DLC for it.



Avatar 6174
71.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 02:21
71.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 02:21
Oct 16, 2011, 02:21
 
the sad fact is that consoles can write to texture memory directly and don't need much detail, so the engine works in that environment.

where tech 5 fails is on the PC, where you cannot write your texture data directly to the hardware and PC resolutions are higher, so the lack of detail is more troublesome. carmack is adding another dithering routine, but the engine is just not suited to take advantage of the PC, unlike some other engines which produce much better visuals at a lower cost

rage does a good job of adding corridors to an outdoor environment, but can you imagine if something like this were to be used for Skyrim or ArmA or GTA? it would be a disaster

70.
 
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming
Oct 16, 2011, 02:07
70.
Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 02:07
Oct 16, 2011, 02:07
 
Jerykk wrote on Oct 16, 2011, 01:02:
Prez wrote on Oct 15, 2011, 23:24:
That's now how I interpreted his statement at all. He's saying that developing for a superior platform doesn't matter if you don't have the budget to create a game that takes advantage of it.

Nah, I didn't get that. Remember, he was speaking in the context of explaining why the PC version launched with significant technical troubles and missing features. In other words, the PC, while the most powerful platform, is also the lowest selling platform, thus not important enough to dedicate enough resources to ensure a working product at launch. Maybe it's just me, but taken in the context of the entire interview, that's what I get out of it.

Did you read his whole statement? It's HERE.

Here's what he said: "We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games," Carmack added. "That statement will enrage some people, but it is hard to characterize it otherwise; both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version. A high end PC is nearly 10 times as powerful as a console, and we could unquestionably provide a better experience if we chose that as our design point and we were able to expend the same amount of resources on it. Nowadays most of the quality of a game comes from the development effort put into it, not the technology it runs on. A game built with a tenth the resources on a platform 10 times as powerful would be an inferior product in almost all cases."

Given that context, it seems to me that he's talking about budgets more than anything else. Unless you're making an MMO, a PC-exclusive will never be given as big a budget as a AAA multiplatform title, so even if you're designing for the most powerful platform, you simply won't have the resources to take full advantage of it. Most publishers won't even fund a AAA PC-exclusive and it's pretty difficult to convince them that PC should be the lead SKU for a multiplatform title. Would RAGE have been a better experience if it were a PC-exclusive and had the same budget that it received as a multiplatform title? Sure. But the reality is that it wouldn't have gotten the same budget. It would have gotten a considerably lower budget. That's what Carmack is saying.

I honestly don't even read posts like this anymore. I try, but although the reasoning is measured and...well...reasonable, the fact is that if you design a game to make the most out of new technology, no amount of "reasoning" is going to justify developing the game on 7-year-old technology. The current crop of consoles are about to be obsolete. PC-gaming as the standard will only encourage Sony and Microsoft to produce new consoles, and in the meantime, PC owners get to maximize their investments with new games and console-limited people get to look forward to a new console on the horizon. Everyone wins. Developing on 7-year-old obsolete console hardware doesn't make any sense if your goal is to innovate. It only makes sense if your only (not primary - only) goals it to make money. It's a short-sighted path that will lead to the demise of many developers.
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