14 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
Newer [  1  ] Older
14.
 
Re: Morning Legal Briefs
Oct 14, 2011, 10:23
Prez
 
14.
Re: Morning Legal Briefs Oct 14, 2011, 10:23
Oct 14, 2011, 10:23
 Prez
 
They can't have exact numbers, but the stats at places like torrentfreak give them a ballpark idea.
"The assumption that animals are without rights, and the illusion that our treatment of them has no moral significance, is a positively outrageous example of Western crudity and barbarity. Universal compassion is the only guarantee of morality."
Avatar 17185
13.
 
Re: Morning Legal Briefs
Oct 14, 2011, 09:31
13.
Re: Morning Legal Briefs Oct 14, 2011, 09:31
Oct 14, 2011, 09:31
 
How exactly do they know how much a movie's been pirated?
12.
 
Re: Morning Legal Briefs
Oct 14, 2011, 08:28
Prez
 
12.
Re: Morning Legal Briefs Oct 14, 2011, 08:28
Oct 14, 2011, 08:28
 Prez
 
My point was, if that was the case, and the DVD home version was a paler experience compared to the theatrical release...then Avatar would have been less pirated than most other films, not more pirated.

I disagree. It was pirated more simply because it was more popular. Proportional to its box office sales the levels of piracy don't seem any higher than with any other film. They may actually be a bit lower.

If you are in a poor family, you can't afford to spend 12 bucks a person plus the money for concessions, so the only option is to simply pirate it or go without. Given the exposure and press the movie got, more people are going to pirate it than a less popular film with less buzz. That's true in virtually any country in the world.
"The assumption that animals are without rights, and the illusion that our treatment of them has no moral significance, is a positively outrageous example of Western crudity and barbarity. Universal compassion is the only guarantee of morality."
Avatar 17185
11.
 
Re: Morning Legal Briefs
Oct 13, 2011, 21:51
PHJF
 
11.
Re: Morning Legal Briefs Oct 13, 2011, 21:51
Oct 13, 2011, 21:51
 PHJF
 
I could also point out that Dark Knight and Avatar were movies targeted directly at the 15-25 demographic, a demographic synonymous with the internet/downloading things. What's more likely to get downloaded, a fantasy epic or a British murder mystery?

As a counter-point I'd offer the the direct-to-home film industry...who isn't exactly rolling in cash cranking out lower-budget movies that pale in comparison to nearly identical, bigger budget films in the exact same market who are just back for a second helping.

"Direct to DVD", 99% of the time, means a movies wasn't good enough for a theatrical release. Wide theatrical releases require tons of money and marketing to succeed, and often enough movies with both fail hard at the box office regardless (Scott Pilgrim comes to mind). The American movie goer is fickle. If a movie is so bad that studio execs think it'd be throwing away money releasing it to theaters, it can either go to DVD or end up as a Sci Fi Channel movie, both of which run far less of a risk. Movies get one shot at a theater, that's it. A couple of months and your movie either made all the money it would or lost a fortune. A DVD can sit on a rack at Best Buy for years waiting for some random passerby to pick it up. There are scores of movies sitting on the shelf at Blockbuster with huge megastars in them (Edison Force comes to mind, a movie with Morgan Freeman and Kevin Spacey that never saw a theatrical release in USA) that were just such bad movies that releasing them to DVD was the only way they might actually make some money (in the long run). "Direct to DVD" is a nice way of saying "this movie sucks."

That's without assuming that the US market may be more consumer driven and eager to buy and own their own copy of a film on DVD than the international market(pure speculation on my part)

Exactly, pure speculation. And a much SAFER assumption would be to assume that, because Avatar did 2.8~ times as much theatrical business internationally that it did domestically, the DVD sales might follow suit. Assuming that, Avatar would have made over five hundred million internationally from DVDs alone. Five hundred million dollars, on top of a hundred ninety domestic, without factoring in rental/streaming and eventual cable TV broadcasts.
Steam + PSN: PHJF
Avatar 17251
10.
 
Re: Morning Legal Briefs
Oct 13, 2011, 20:49
10.
Re: Morning Legal Briefs Oct 13, 2011, 20:49
Oct 13, 2011, 20:49
 
PHJF wrote on Oct 13, 2011, 19:34:
If the theatrical 3D experience was so awesome, then why is it so wildly pirated?

Because people wanted to watch the movie again but didn't feel like shelling out $12 (again)? It's not rocket science.

That's not point I was making. I was responding to the proposal that the reason DVD sales for Avatar specifically were a small percentage of box office sales was because Avatar was a 3D film and really best suited for theater viewing. My point was, if that was the case, and the DVD home version was a paler experience compared to the theatrical release...then Avatar would have been less pirated than most other films, not more pirated. Clearly, it's valued (or more accuraltey highly desired but undervalued) because of its success and popularity in the theaters...laregly because of the scope of the film...laregly tied to how much crazy money they spent making it.

I saw Avatar, once, in a theater. If it hadn't come out in theaters, I'd have seen it somewhere else.

No, you wouldn't have. Because if it hadn't come out in theaters it would have never been made. No studio would have financed it.

What you fail to realize is that if you remove the theater as a viewing option then other options will get more business

I think this is largely speculation. As a counter-point I'd offer the the direct-to-home film industry...who isn't exactly rolling in cash cranking out lower-budget movies that pale in comparison to nearly identical, bigger budget films in the exact same market who are just back for a second helping.

It's certainly possible that the future may bring a completely different venue and different business model for feature films, but my whole point is that it will also, without a doubt, also bring about changes in how movies are budgeted and made. Lemee know if you have an idea about what that might be, I'd love to chip in on the next media revolution.

You're conveniently leaving out rentals and streaming as revenue sources, and the fact that, whoops, the DVD sales are domestic only.

I'm not leaving them out to serve my point, I just don't have sources readily at hand. However, I don't think it's irresponsible to assume that there is, at best, a correlation between box office to DVD sales regardless of whether their domestic or foreign. That's without assuming that the US market may be more consumer driven and eager to buy and own their own copy of a film on DVD than the international market(pure speculation on my part). It's possible that the worldwide DVD sales for Avatar did exceed the cost to make and market the film, but how long did that take? Was the annual return on investment for this $300m film worthwile enough for people to invest in movies rather than hedge funds? Again, based on the direct-to-video business model, whose profit margins are much slimmer...I would guess probably not.

Oh my god, Avatar made two billion dollars internationally and only seven hundred million in America! The American theater industry is dying ahhhhhh!

People aren't pirating Avatar the theatrical release, largely responisble for the astronomical revenues this film enjoyed because that's pretty much impossible to do. Imagine the shambles the film industry might be in if there were some magical way for one person to buy a ticket, take it home, scan it, and somehow allow anyone who downloaded it for free to walk into their local theater and watch the movie. If they could, you'd better damn well believe that the movie industry would be desperating trying to find some way to 1) keep tickets from being scanned or 2) radically rebuild how movies are monitized so they're not relying solely on people buying tickets...because that's suddenly become a completley unreliable stream.

Tell me that doesn't sound familiar.
9.
 
Re: Morning Legal Briefs
Oct 13, 2011, 19:34
PHJF
 
9.
Re: Morning Legal Briefs Oct 13, 2011, 19:34
Oct 13, 2011, 19:34
 PHJF
 
If the theatrical 3D experience was so awesome, then why is it so wildly pirated?

Because people wanted to watch the movie again but didn't feel like shelling out $12 (again)? It's not rocket science. I saw Avatar, once, in a theater. If it hadn't come out in theaters, I'd have seen it somewhere else. What you fail to realize is that if you remove the theater as a viewing option then other options will get more business. You're conveniently leaving out rentals and streaming as revenue sources, and the fact that, whoops, the DVD sales are domestic only. Oh my god, Avatar made two billion dollars internationally and only seven hundred million in America! The American theater industry is dying ahhhhhh!
Steam + PSN: PHJF
Avatar 17251
8.
 
Re: Morning Legal Briefs
Oct 13, 2011, 19:26
8.
Re: Morning Legal Briefs Oct 13, 2011, 19:26
Oct 13, 2011, 19:26
 
Ventura wrote on Oct 13, 2011, 18:46:
Yeeeeaaaahhh, except most of that money was made at the box-office...you know, before the film is packaged up in a format that's easily and cheaply distributed by anyone with an internet connect.

Not that it didn't still break DVD and Blu Ray sales records though.

That's the point. DVD sales are icing on the cake when things are working as designed. If films were forced to rely on DVD sales alone then they are incredibly unlikely to turn a profit.

Thus...piracy of a movie, in an easily piratable format, after it's already made most of it's money anyway...not that big of a deal right now. It won't make or break a movie or, more important to the point, fundamentally change the way movies are being made.
7.
 
Re: Morning Legal Briefs
Oct 13, 2011, 18:49
7.
Re: Morning Legal Briefs Oct 13, 2011, 18:49
Oct 13, 2011, 18:49
 
Prez wrote on Oct 13, 2011, 17:47:
Of course Avatar DVD sales were going to be comparatively low - the movie was such a box office draw because of its stunning 3D (which gave me a righteous headache, but the 3D was still amazing). Even on a 3D set, the living room experience just doesn't match the theater experience in my view.

If the theatrical 3D experience was so awesome, then why is it so wildly pirated?

Here's some numbers for "The Dark Knight"...which was not a 3D film (thank God):
http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/2008/BATM2.php
Production budget = ~$185m
Box office = $533m domestic + $468m foreign (over $1b worldwide)
DVD sales = $255m

If that film were relying on home video sales alone, it would barely be scraping by. The arguement could be made that it wouldn't have done nearly as well for not having the theatrical venue to pull in rave reviews, accolades about Ledger's performance, and the substantial marketting budget behind a "Batman" reboot.

As a general rule, movies make most of their money at the box office within the first couple of weekends off release. There's the occasional sleeper hits doesn't find an audience on their opending weekend or that slip through the box office quiety but manages to find a market through home sales. If they're lucky, and didn't cost too much to make or market in the first place, they might turn a profit. But no studio sets out with the goal of making a sleeper hit or film that will become a cult classic.

The entire film industry's business model, the metrics for success, all the things that get the money-men to pony up the real-cash money so a movie can be green-lit is projections for box-office ticket sales. If that revenue stream did not exist, or were to one day change to be less secure...guaranteed the way movies are financed, and thus the way movies are fundamentally made would radically change.
6.
 
Re: Morning Legal Briefs
Oct 13, 2011, 18:46
6.
Re: Morning Legal Briefs Oct 13, 2011, 18:46
Oct 13, 2011, 18:46
 
Yeeeeaaaahhh, except most of that money was made at the box-office...you know, before the film is packaged up in a format that's easily and cheaply distributed by anyone with an internet connect.

Not that it didn't still break DVD and Blu Ray sales records though.

They're not short a buck. If they were, Cameron would just go back through the archives, add another 6 minutes and run it on the big screen again. He's good like that.
5.
 
Re: Morning Legal Briefs
Oct 13, 2011, 17:47
Prez
 
5.
Re: Morning Legal Briefs Oct 13, 2011, 17:47
Oct 13, 2011, 17:47
 Prez
 
Of course Avatar DVD sales were going to be comparatively low - the movie was such a box office draw because of its stunning 3D (which gave me a righteous headache, but the 3D was still amazing). Even on a 3D set, the living room experience just doesn't match the theater experience in my view.
"The assumption that animals are without rights, and the illusion that our treatment of them has no moral significance, is a positively outrageous example of Western crudity and barbarity. Universal compassion is the only guarantee of morality."
Avatar 17185
4.
 
Re: Morning Legal Briefs
Oct 13, 2011, 17:20
4.
Re: Morning Legal Briefs Oct 13, 2011, 17:20
Oct 13, 2011, 17:20
 
Creston wrote on Oct 13, 2011, 14:26:
Yeah, that piracy has sure hurt Avatar's sales. Rolleyes

Creston

Yeeeeaaaahhh, except most of that money was made at the box-office...you know, before the film is packaged up in a format that's easily and cheaply distributed by anyone with an internet connect. Imagine if Avatar were relying on DVD sales and rentals alone to recoup its ~$300 million dollar cost (plus another $150 for promotion). Would look more like this:
http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/2009/AVATR-DVD.php

When someone figures out how to set up a 'used' movie ticket industry it might become more of an issue than it already is.
3.
 
Re: Morning Legal Briefs
Oct 13, 2011, 14:26
3.
Re: Morning Legal Briefs Oct 13, 2011, 14:26
Oct 13, 2011, 14:26
 
Yeah, that piracy has sure hurt Avatar's sales. Rolleyes

Creston
Avatar 15604
2.
 
Re: Morning Legal Briefs
Oct 13, 2011, 13:29
2.
Re: Morning Legal Briefs Oct 13, 2011, 13:29
Oct 13, 2011, 13:29
 
There's a correlation between popularity and piracy? Weird!
1.
 
Re: Morning Legal Briefs
Oct 13, 2011, 10:30
1.
Re: Morning Legal Briefs Oct 13, 2011, 10:30
Oct 13, 2011, 10:30
 
"Avatar" and "Dark Knight" also among the most successful movies EVAR! So what?
14 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
Newer [  1  ] Older