I could swear last year the site's faq said there would be a fee but probably not a 'traditional subscriber model.' Lame.

That said, we are talking about Bioware here. I don't think failure is guaranteed.

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This comment was deleted on Sep 26, 2011, 08:02.

Sepharo wrote on Sep 25, 2011, 17:52:
$50/60 for a solid month of obsessive play is a good value for me. I don't intend to make a lifestlhye out of my MMOs. If I only get one month of fun I'm satisfied.

Well... if you only play for a month... your not paying a fee because the first 30 days is usually built into the game cost... and technically you're not really playing what an MMO is intended to be... which is an online community "copy" of a table-top RPG community. - Meaning they're intended to be played way more than a month.

Unfortunately, the genre is so stale, that a month or two is about all most people can stand, anymore. Nowadays, most modern MMOs see a huge surge when they launch, then quickly lose a large majority of their player base... usually in under 6 months... some even quicker (aka flops) because the game is in such a poor state when it launches. Even the fairly recent and semi-successful ones like Rift and Aion are hurting. They definitely don't have the retention that MMO's launched 10 years ago, had.

It's sad... but it's also what happens when tons of companies try to get on the "me too" bandwagon... and don't really try to do anything innovative.

I agree with you on the malaise and same ol same ol but not on the price.

$50/60 for a solid month of obsessive play is a good value for me. I don't intend to make a lifestyle out of my MMOs. If I only get one month of fun I'm satisfied.

This comment was edited on Sep 26, 2011, 00:13.

Well... it's not so much the price, as it is "the price for the same over-saturated and genre-stale shit".

I used to love MMOs, but the genre needs a Paradigm Shift forward in game play mechanics, before I'd resort to paying a fee or doing major transactions, again.

I'm hoping Guild Wars 2 Dynamic Events will be that "Paradigm Shift". ...and the beauty of it is that there is no subscription fee for that game... so the risk is minimal.

Seriously, I've "paid to play" so many incomplete, overly-buggy, status-quo MMO's, that I'm sick to death of them, and I obviously feel that they are a "rip-off". I absolutely refuse to "pay-to-beta" anymore.

Now, I'm not saying SW:TOR will be low quality garbage... but as I said before, there are design decisions that they made, and that I disagree with strongly enough, that I wouldn't give them a dime until I tried their game first.

So, I guess I'll wait for a (Post-Launch) free trial offer.

/shrug

If you like MMOs, this works for you. If you don't, then why come to an MMO news story and bitch about pricing, etc.?

Asmo wrote on Sep 25, 2011, 08:31:
I'm not sure what the big deal over the monthly sub is...

Well... for me, so many MMO's are so fricken bland and the same old shit with different paint... that there's no way I'd pay for the game just to try it, let alone a subscription fee.

As for F2P games... I avoid those too because most of them are a scam.

The only exception to this (for me), will be Guild Wars 2.

Anyway... I had a large interest in TOR in the beginning... but after they've shown a bunch of it and after some of the design decisions they made (like Space on rails)... I would touch this until there was a decent length (like 2 weeks) free trial offer... and only then could I determine if it was worth a fee or not.

El Pit wrote on Sep 25, 2011, 03:09:
So it's $60 plus another $78 for the six months I would play it? $138 for a game? Sorry, that's too much for me. Plus: I wouldn't sign the ToS.

I'm not sure what the big deal over the monthly sub is...

I've paid 89 AUD (so ~89 USD) for a game that I've finished in 10-15 hours (more than one actually ). Compare this to most MMO's I've played where I usually last 2-3 months and get up to a couple of hundred hours, your cost per hour value for MMO's is much lower.

Of course, a lot of that time is spent doing shuttle missions or grinding etc, but if you aren't interested in MMO gameplay, then fretting over how much it costs to play an MMO is kinda redundant, right?

That being said, I've sunk about 300 hours in to M&B:Warband thanks to some great mods out there for 20 odd bucks, so obviously your mileage varies, but MMO's are relatively inexpensive. For the same cost as purchase + 3 months sub, me and the wife could go to a cinema 2-3 times. For collectors + 3 months sub, we'd be lucky if it covered the cost of one visit to our favourite French restaurant...

Dev wrote on Sep 25, 2011, 06:45:
In addition to the high price and fees, be forced to use origin? I'll pass.

Maybe once it goes cheap/free I'll try it for a month when the price isn't so crazy.

Unless something has changed, Origin is not required to play SW:TOR.

Bioware, I'll make you a deal. You make awesomely new KOTOR RPG using Mass Effect graphics and I'll give you $50. I have no real interesting in your MMO.

In addition to the high price and fees, be forced to use origin? I'll pass.

Maybe once it goes cheap/free I'll try it for a month when the price isn't so crazy.

Sempai wrote on Sep 25, 2011, 00:21:

Jonny wrote on Sep 24, 2011, 19:49:
I'm happy to see a release date, but one working day before Christmas? How is that not an utterly retarded time to release a new MMO? It doesn't exactly give them much leeway. If something unexpected crops up as often happens with MMO launches, then either their staff will have to work over Christmas or everyone will be screwed until the middle of the week after.

While I agree with you 100% on the release, how is Tuesday one working day from Christmas which is on Sunday of that week?

Am I missing something?

I'm English mate, 22nd for me. Which gives them Friday as the only full day to sort out any mishaps before the Christmas weekend starts. Any that start a day or two after launch in the EU will be a special sort of trouble for someone. Add in the expectation of a really bad winter in the British Isles and you've got a situation which goes from "works fine" if they're lucky to "total clusterfuck" if they're not without any wiggle room.

It's not what I would have expected given the problems firms have had releasing things around Thanksgiving and other times when their staff are off en-masse.

This comment was edited on Sep 25, 2011, 04:59.

El Pit wrote on Sep 25, 2011, 03:09:
So it's $60 plus another $78 for the six months I would play it? $138 for a game? Sorry, that's too much for me. Plus: I wouldn't sign the ToS.

Yes, except that one month is included with the initial cost of the game, so that would be for 7 months. You'll find the price is pretty standard with new premium MMOs. It is a lot of money, but I guess MMO gamers compare the hours they spend on it every month to what they might spend on other new games to keep them occupied that long. And you would expect regular content updates included at that price.

Also, I assume you're talking about the Origin ToS. You don't ever need to install or use Origin as long as you don't buy through Origin. Unlike BF3 it's not tied to the game.

So it's $60 plus another $78 for the six months I would play it? $138 for a game? Sorry, that's too much for me. Plus: I wouldn't sign the ToS.

Ah yes the mythical GW2 savior that "everyone" will just play to play......Lol free2play overhyped games. See I love that word when it's thrown around, everyone. No sorry everyone doesn't follow the herd mentality unless they are drooling mouthbreathers who are too cheap to pay for a decent products upkeep.

This comment was edited on Sep 25, 2011, 03:09.

It'll be released, people will rave over the companions, voice overs and story lines.

They will tell everyone how Companions are different than pets because they talk and craft. But in a few months people will realize that companions are an extension of the character, a way for the developer to extend traits you may not have (healing, DPS, tank) by swapping out companions. I remember when they were talking about making players able to switch roles so they'd be a better tank/DPS/Healer when needed to fill roles...so they wouldn't have to look for specific classes to make a good group.

Voice overs will be awesome, until you've played through one side and all the side quests and stuff are the exact same and you get tired of hearing it repeated to you. I think the only real core voice work that will be unique is your class story line. Companions will only be unique to the core class, not the advanced classes as nothing has show that the AC affects your companion choices.

Story line, it'll be awesome until you run out of it. Then you will have to evaluate the game on it's gameplay.

And I suspect in 1-2 months you'll start to hear some grumbling. 3 months time people will start denouncing SWTOR as "same old" once the companions/story/voice overs get a little dull. People will wish they would have did something to advance the MMO genre gameplay...and let's face it. The budget they put into voice overs and development, they probably could have developed 2 MMOs with the production of a non-voiced over MMO.

And let's not forget the players who will love love love the game because some actor/actress voices something and it's like romancing said actor/actress because they are talking back to you. They'll take 6-12 months to start coming out of that I suspect, but they were mentally ill to begin with.

3 month cycle is pretty common for MMOs anymore, everything is SUPER AWESOME GREAT until 3 months rolls around and the reviews start to not be 4.999/5 stars or 99/100 score.


That's my prediction, I haven't seen anything in the videos that impresses me gameplay wise. Their Pvp battlegrounds/warfronts/whatever look pretty boring. The quests and combat seem to be the same, aside from MAYBE their little instanced dungeons I don't remember the name....and we haven't been told how many of those we can expect, or if they are all high level aside from 1 or 2.

Guild Wars 2 is a significant departure from GW1 in many ways, it is even more PvE focused than the first one, with dynamic events (public quests) replacing quests entirely, involving more people in the storyline, and having lasting effects (failing a quest will change later quests in the chain).

Oh wait, this isn't a GW2 thread? Nevermind then. Why are people talking about it?

I think TOR looks pretty good. It's not quite the direction I would have liked to see, and I certainly have a worry that I will either race through the storyline and then not really care about other elements (playing it as if I would KOTOR3); or that it will feel like I play a little bit of KoTOR3 and then have to grind before I can play the next section. The pvp looks pretty good, but pve grouping leaves questions. It also doesn't feel as if on the whole the game is enough of a departure from the WoW model to make it feel fresh.

Unfortunately I probably wont be playing thanks to origin.

Depending on when the holiday falls, some businesses give two days before or after. In this case, I'll prob be off the 22nd and 23rd. Can't say that's the case for everyone though.

Sempai wrote on Sep 25, 2011, 00:21:

Jonny wrote on Sep 24, 2011, 19:49:
I'm happy to see a release date, but one working day before Christmas? How is that not an utterly retarded time to release a new MMO? It doesn't exactly give them much leeway. If something unexpected crops up as often happens with MMO launches, then either their staff will have to work over Christmas or everyone will be screwed until the middle of the week after.

While I agree with you 100% on the release, how is Tuesday one working day from Christmas which is on Sunday of that week?

Am I missing something?

Europe perhaps? It says Dec 22nd in Europe. Granted that's 2 working days.

Then again maybe he's taking work holidays into account. I know some Swiss companies (and others) that take the Christmas holiday season very seriously.

Jonny wrote on Sep 24, 2011, 19:49:
I'm happy to see a release date, but one working day before Christmas? How is that not an utterly retarded time to release a new MMO? It doesn't exactly give them much leeway. If something unexpected crops up as often happens with MMO launches, then either their staff will have to work over Christmas or everyone will be screwed until the middle of the week after.

While I agree with you 100% on the release, how is Tuesday one working day from Christmas which is on Sunday of that week?

Am I missing something?