An RTS with depth is what I would have hoped for. It's EA though. There's no hope.

Something that mixed the original Syndicate, DX, Commandos and create an isometric 3D game with squad and soldier stat development.
Require interactions and dialogue choices to be made for storyline, and even involve stealth elements like vision cones, hiding in stuff (Commandos) and sweet stealth gadgetry.

Y'know, up the ante with the whole IP. Turn it into something new while retaining all the old goodness.

Gears of Syndicate, or Call of Syndicate is pretty much what we're going to get though.

Oh and yeah, the GT40 was conceived and designed as a le mans super car killer because the guys at Ford were sick of getting their asses waxed time after time. It was never meant to be a consumer car, or halo car, or whatever the hell. Just gain some wins and show those Italians what Ford could do. It did well too, for a while it ruled.

The Ford Lightning was a halo (if anything was). Designed to pull in speed loving rednecks and send them home with a slightly tuned F-150.

Beamer wrote on Sep 12, 2011, 14:19:
Do you really think that Ford many any real profit on a car that sold under 700 per year?

No, but that was largely due to Ford's lack of dealer price control, not because "Hey, I know, we're going to re-birth a legend so we can sell more Focuses." Are you not familiar with the Coletti years at SVT? It certainly seems that you aren't.

Ford stated that the GT had an MSRP of 150K. Dealers often marked them up to 250K or more. This dropped their market to ~10% of what it could have been.

You're also forgetting that during Bill Ford's reign, he wanted to get Ford back in to racing other than rednecks turning left for 2 hours on a Sunday. The idea was for Ford to go to Le Mans with an LMP1 Ford "GT" and then branch out in to FIA GT (which did happen) and other GT series (ALMS and Rolex come to mind).

I would agree that the "Terminator" Cobra of 03 and 04 were built expressly to sell more GTs given that the GT body style of those years was very long and tooth and sales had slumped. They needed a stop gap measure between that body style and the "retro" boat they were going to introduce.

Like I said, if you wanted to sell F-150s, you look at the Lightning. Ford's very, very good at marketing their cash cow vehicles and I've yet to see Ford try and cross-segment two completely separate demographics that do not share the same consumer buying trends.

The Advocate wrote on Sep 12, 2011, 13:35:
Not even close. Did you ever read about the GT or the interviews with Colletti about the GT? The GT was meant to be an all American supercar killer without the supercar price tag. It was to re-birth what the original GT was, America's answer to European engineering.

Nobody went in to a Ford dealer looking for a GT and said "Well, golly, I guess I should buy a totally different type of vehicle instead. I wanted a sports car but, fuck it, I'm gonna buy something I can haul dirt in."

Seriously?
The GT was designed solely for the halo effect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect

Beating the italians at their own game, which I'd argue the GT did, is part of the halo effect. It was done to make Ford seem cool and sell F-150s, not to sell 4000 GTs.

It's the same with the Viper: Dodge dealers didn't fight to be one of the few with a Viper in their showroom because they thought they'd sell a Viper, they did it to get Joe Plumber to come into the dealership and oogle the untouchable vehicle, think about how badass Dodge was, and buy a Ram over an F-150.

Halo cars have three main purposes, listed in order:
1) Increase brand equity and drive people into showrooms
2) R&D and proof-of-concept for new design and feature work that may slowly trickle into more mundane cars
3) Sell

Do you really think that Ford many any real profit on a car that sold under 700 per year?

Fallout would be a great example, to me, of when changing the perspective was for the better. I love Fallout 1 and 2, but 3 and NV to me were much better games all in all.

But Syndicate at its time of delivery was an unusual RTS and slight RPG (capturing and modifying people for upgrades and trying to keep them alive due to expense).

I just don't see how this game could be an FPS, but I don't design games.


On another note, I sure could see Terminator being revived as a kick ass RTS. When Bethesda owned the Terminator IP they did a great job with it as an FPS. Perhaps in the right hands any game could be changed and made enjoyable.

briktal wrote on Sep 12, 2011, 12:39:
Why does a "classic" gaming IP have to be limited to only one genre? There are Star Wars space sims, shooters/action games, strategy games and even a racing game that isn't that bad. I haven't heard a ton of people crying out that WH40k Space Marine isn't a strategy game. These sorts of things can be fine if a) the game itself doesn't suck b) they stick with the setting and feel of the originals. Of course, there's no guarantee either of those things will happen.

Maybe because we've been waiting 20 years for more of the gameplay we loved, and instead we get something made to appeal to an entirely different crowd? If they can make a good FPS, they can make a good FPS that isn't about Syndicate.

Beamer wrote on Sep 12, 2011, 12:32:
Actually a Ford GT is a halo car that's used to get people into the Ford dealership. It's well known that they won't buy a Ford GT, and that a Ford GT won't turn a profit, but the hope is they'll walk in, see how cool Ford is, and walk out with a new Ford F-150.

Not even close. Did you ever read about the GT or the interviews with Colletti about the GT? The GT was meant to be an all American supercar killer without the supercar price tag. It was to re-birth what the original GT was, America's answer to European engineering.

Nobody went in to a Ford dealer looking for a GT and said "Well, golly, I guess I should buy a totally different type of vehicle instead. I wanted a sports car but, fuck it, I'm gonna buy something I can haul dirt in."

I might be able to stretch credulity far enough to see a Lightning, since that was also an SVT product, but a standard F-150? Might as well say tractor, lawn mower or unicycle.

As for Syndicate being a shooter...I am disappointed and I will probably neither purchase nor play it. I am tired of FPSes and I realize that that is going to be the majority of the titles shoveled out the door until it runs its course. Much like RPGs in the late 80s to mid 90s. They, too, were a dime a dozen.

I miss games like Homeworld, Nexus: TJI and the like but I also realize that I am old and those games are now few and far between.

yeah !!! another great game turning into a FPS ... WTF really ? first Xcom and now Syndicate

DX:HR was a good example of how to virtually remake a classic, bringing it into the modern era. Fallout 3 was also a good step in the right direction, it took New Vegas to exploit it more though I think.

Dev's should really stick to a few simple premises to updating classics like this. Update the hell out of the graphics and engine obviously. Streamline what really doesn't work anymore into a playable fun state. There called beloved classics for a reason! just keep what worked and made the game a classic to begin with.

nin wrote on Sep 12, 2011, 11:35:

Creston wrote on Sep 12, 2011, 11:32:

nin wrote on Sep 12, 2011, 09:54:

Even the new cover art reminds me of the latest DX.

Hey, they turn this into something similar to Deus Ex, and I'm all over it like hot butter.

Creston

I thought the same, but like I said yesterday, I can see why fans of the original wouldn't want that.

Yeah, plus EA's involved, so we'll likely get Call of Syndicate, a scripted, four-hour corridor shooter. But I can HOPE that it'll be like Deus Ex.

Creston

Why does a "classic" gaming IP have to be limited to only one genre? There are Star Wars space sims, shooters/action games, strategy games and even a racing game that isn't that bad. I haven't heard a ton of people crying out that WH40k Space Marine isn't a strategy game. These sorts of things can be fine if a) the game itself doesn't suck b) they stick with the setting and feel of the originals. Of course, there's no guarantee either of those things will happen.

Beamer wrote on Sep 12, 2011, 12:32:
Actually a Ford GT is a halo car that's used to get people into the Ford dealership. It's well known that they won't buy a Ford GT, and that a Ford GT won't turn a profit, but the hope is they'll walk in, see how cool Ford is, and walk out with a new Ford F-150.

In reality, the Ford dealership didn't even know how to deal with the people who were actually interested in the Ford GT itself. Didn't even offer them water or coffee

Not trying to apologize for the publishers or devs on this one, but I guess you need to look at exactly how many units of Syndicate sold back in the day and compare that to what they expect sales to be like for a new one.

Following the principle of 'no-risk' that publishers find preferable, they aren't going to actually try to make something that appeases original fans. They just want something that original fans find familiar and they build whatever type of game they think will sell more on top of it.

Not many resurrected IPs in gaming are truly there for fans of the original game unless the original game sold inordinately well. i.e. well enough to look like sales number for more current games. That's not something that happens frequently.

Actually a Ford GT is a halo car that's used to get people into the Ford dealership. It's well known that they won't buy a Ford GT, and that a Ford GT won't turn a profit, but the hope is they'll walk in, see how cool Ford is, and walk out with a new Ford F-150.

the instant I read FPS, and EA, I stopped reading the rest. rip Syndicate, thanks for the memories, see you on GOG soon I hope.

Beamer wrote on Sep 12, 2011, 11:18:
I wonder if Castle Wolfenstein fans sent John Carmack hate mail when Wolfenstein 3D was announced. "It needs to be a third person stealth based platforming game, you're apologizing for the industry and ruining the entire concept!!!!"

Call it "Syndicate Shooter" and all is good.
You just can't try to capitalize on a brand to attract the fans by focusing on what's similar when in fact the entire premise is different. I don't think Carmack ever said "Our goal with Wolfenstein 3D is to provide a challenging action shooter for today’s gamers as well as fans of the original", or even better "an amazing opportunity for us to use our expertise in the first person shooter and action genres to bring back, and reignite, the signature action/espionage gameplay of Wolfenstein."

A fan of the original would have started the game and said "WTF mate?"
He'd have enjoyed it, most probably, but the only relationship between the 2 games (or 3, considering the excellent Beyond CF) is the Nazi setting and "Achtung".

So anyway, I don't have a problem with Syndicate Shooter, except for the cheese marketing technique of attempting to relate the "signature action/espionage GAMEPLAY of Syndicate" with the gameplay of an FPS.

A Ford F-150 and a Ford GT are 2 vehicles made by Ford. And that's about where the comparison stops. Ford doesn't go out and say "The Ford GT is an amazing opportunity for us to use our expertise in vehicle manufacturing to bring back, and reignite, the signature toughness and carrying capacity of our F-150 trucks."

However, Ford can absolutely say the following:
"The Ford GT is an amazing opportunity for us to use our expertise in car engineering to bring back, and reignite, the signature performance and looks of the mythical Ford GT-40."

This makes absolutely NO sense to turn an RTS into an FPS. What are they thinking?

The real bummer is if this game sucks ass, which seems to be the case, it will permanently destroy the franchise or at least force it to be over looked for 10-15 years.

Imagine if Deus Ex became an RTS? How good could it have been even if Relic were the designers?

Halo wrote on Sep 12, 2011, 11:49:
Maybe next we can get a FPS Theme Hospital and a FPS Populous

Heh. Contrary to all reason, Theme Hospital was a blast to play.

At least cyberpunk is getting popular again... Wishful thinking but it would be kind of interesting to control your team from above a gorgeous neon city like the original then drop into your leaders (or who ever is still alive) screen with kind of a tapped in feel like the bots in Chronicles of Riddick. So your not so much playing an FPS as much as your in control of your team... I'm going to go play Syndicate now.

Maybe next we can get a FPS Theme Hospital and a FPS Populous

This comment was edited on Sep 12, 2011, 11:56.

Good throwbacks are good because they're good, not because they're throwbacks. There is no reason to make this a Syndicate game.

This is XCOM all over again. EA, if you want to make an FPS, make an FPS. Don't turn a beloved franchise into an FPS just to sell it to people who liked the game when it wasn't an FPS, possibly BECAUSE it wasn't an FPS.