Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A

A GameSpy Reader Q&A talks with Deus Ex: Human Revolution designer Antoine Thisdale about the upcoming action/RPG prequel and includes a recent IGN trailer where Thisdale answers other questions and shows off some gameplay footage. Here's his explanation of why they did away with weapon skills:
That's a very good question, and I have a very good answer. We wanted combat to rely on player skill, and not the fictional character's skill. We wanted to avoid the possibility of just buying the skill for sniper rifles, then you never use a sniper rifle, and later in the game you pick it up because, hey, that's going to be good for this situation -- and you take everyone down because you [bought the skill]. Also, one of the reasons for the skill system not being used is because it really portrays nanotechnology as mechanical. It's more about learning to physically use your body and use the mechanics that go with it, more than a skill-based system. It's kind of the same idea; we just spin it in a different way. But we didn't want it to directly affect combat with weapons. That was a very early choice, specifically because we wanted players to actually train with the weapons.
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27.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 09:26
27.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 09:26
Aug 16, 2011, 09:26
 
Raptor wrote on Aug 16, 2011, 09:17:
I'm sure it will be a good game mainly because the source material is already so good, but what if it was made PC first and by someone understanding the source a bit better ? I see a lot of missed potential still.


Like Deus Ex: Invisible War, you mean?
"The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!"
26.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 09:17
26.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 09:17
Aug 16, 2011, 09:17
 
Cloning or trying to clone the original Dx wouldn't of course be a good idea. However, even leaving the game or press build experience side for a minute and just read what these guys are saying makes it pretty clear it's like putting a kiddie bicycle next to a car or a bike.
That's the level of difference between the two dev teams.
Warren or anybody from the team when asked questions in an interview gave comprehensible and logical answers which made their objectives, ideas and reasoning very clear.
From what I've read and seen these guys are all over the map, half of the answers on the above Q&A show that very well.
"We added 3rd person to show how cool Adam is" what the hell ?

It's stuff like that what shows where the mentality behind this one lies and why the decisions we see have been made.

I'm sure it will be a good game mainly because the source material is already so good, but what if it was made PC first and by someone understanding the source a bit better ? I see a lot of missed potential still.
25.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 08:50
25.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 08:50
Aug 16, 2011, 08:50
 
I'll add here that I don't think these guys meant to recreate the original DX bit for bit.

They have constantly said that they want to stay true to the spirit of the game and the things that made it great. I don't think they obligated themselves to simply cloning the original game. And I think that's fine.

On the topic of forced boss fights, I'm not over the fence one way or another. I usually try to do multiple things with characters in RPGs and usually there is combat in one of my paths. But I can see how it would be inconvenient for people who want to stick fully to one path.

Sometimes it's a question of how the developers want to tell a story that conflicts with a given player preference. Or it could be that console players expect bosses to fight...
24.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 08:46
Verno
 
24.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 08:46
Aug 16, 2011, 08:46
 Verno
 
Squirmer wrote on Aug 16, 2011, 08:06:
Likewise, if Eidos made a game in which you could avoid all boss fights or find solutions to them that matched with different playstyles, would people be saying 'ooo gee Eidos, that's not a good idea you know, you need to make us kill people to create tension in the storyline!' Or would they say 'wow Eidos is really taking those Deus Ex design principles on board and making a remarkable game, that's amazing'. Again, I'm gonna guess the latter.

Videogames aren't books, they don't just form the gameplay around a storyboard alone or something. For better or for worse this is the type of Deus Ex game they wanted to make with the story they wanted to tell. If you want that sort of game with non-lethal accommodations for bosses and whatnot then you'll have to play something else, it's pretty much that simple.

They didn't set out to replicate Deus Ex, they set out to make a Deus Ex game. Those are two very different concepts. While I don't fully agree with all of their design decisions I still think this is going to be a deep, fantastic experience that dwarfs most of the console focused games released.
Playing: Xenoblade Chronicles DE, Ys IX, God of War
Watching: Lupin, You me and the Apocalypse, Days of Thunder
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23.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 08:15
23.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 08:15
Aug 16, 2011, 08:15
 
Ok, then i am sorry for having taken your comment as ranting Clearly you have 2 points there.

But the light based stealth, while i totally agree it gives you more options, also makes sneaking WAY overpowered (not to mention that robots and enemies could potentially have thermal or IR vision)

The take-downs (with their energy req) are there as well to prevent that 1 approach to be all overpowering, every take-down involves the danger to be seen and attacked while the animation plays, forcing you to rethink your approaches constantly and according to the situation. This is imo good game-design.

My complaints about the original DX involve that a lot of the stealth and melee things are simply completely OP and unbalanced. And HR fixes these things IMO
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22.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 08:09
J
22.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 08:09
Aug 16, 2011, 08:09
J
 
News just in - it doesn't matter what people do - there will always be those who like it and those who dislike it. And there'll always be people who take things out of context and contort it so it fits their own agenda.
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21.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 08:08
21.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 08:08
Aug 16, 2011, 08:08
 
I agree with you, but i find that the only way to make avoiding combat satisfying is by giving you an optional path to follow beforehand that involves doing things that would make the combat logically avoidable. The end fight of Whitcher 2 is a good example (as its optional and you (as character that you play) have a logical reason to fight AND not to fight, mainly because your enemy has never really intended for you to get hurt.

But in DX's case that would involve a lot more than that - as they set the story up a certain way (press build..) and i don't see any way that you as character would not be hugely pissed off at the guy who did that to you (for whatever reason).

If you played the press build, that hostage situation in the sarif offices, it can be resolved in 4 different ways - that is awesome imo (mainly because theres real consequences for each choice there) If boss fights are even remotely like that (ie, give you plenty of paths "to" the resolution i have no problem with them.
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20.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 08:06
20.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 08:06
Aug 16, 2011, 08:06
 
I might be trolling but I'm not begging for it.

Think of it this way. If Eidos had made this game with shadow-based stealth, would people be saying 'ooo I don't know Eidos shadow based stealth is pretty unrealistic, I don't think you should do that'. Or would they be saying 'wow, they are really staying true to the original game here, that's awesome'. I expect the latter. But because Eidos went the other way the asslickers come shuffling out declaring it genius and oh yeah Deus Ex had crappy stealth this whole time who knew.

Likewise, if Eidos made a game in which you could avoid all boss fights or find solutions to them that matched with different playstyles, would people be saying 'ooo gee Eidos, that's not a good idea you know, you need to make us kill people to create tension in the storyline!' Or would they say 'wow Eidos is really taking those Deus Ex design principles on board and making a remarkable game, that's amazing'. Again, I'm gonna guess the latter.
19.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 08:03
J
19.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 08:03
Aug 16, 2011, 08:03
J
 
nin wrote on Aug 16, 2011, 07:46:
You're like a running joke without a punchline.

Or he's just a troll, begging for attention.


Nothing a battery cell's worth of battery wouldn't fix

10 days to go!
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Blue: What do you mean, "biblical"?
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18.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 07:46
nin
 
18.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 07:46
Aug 16, 2011, 07:46
 nin
 
You're like a running joke without a punchline.

Or he's just a troll, begging for attention.

17.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 07:26
17.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 07:26
Aug 16, 2011, 07:26
 
JC Denton kind of was a very forgettable character. He had next to no personality of his own. He shown because of the game, not because of the character.
16.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 07:00
J
16.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 07:00
Aug 16, 2011, 07:00
J
 
Squirmer wrote on Aug 16, 2011, 05:38:
OK please tell us all the different ways you did that fight. Did you like ... shoot him with a gun?

And then the next time did you ... shoot him with a different gun?

And then the next time, wait wait let me guess ... you shot him with still another gun?

A M A Z I N G

Human Revolution? MORE LIKE GAMEPLAY REVOLUTION HUH? A CHOICE OF GUNS.

2/10. And I only gave you an extra point because you put so much effort in.

Evidently you're unable to comprehend tactics, so I won't trouble you with the details.
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Blue: What do you mean, "biblical"?
xXBatmanXx: What he means is Old BBS, El Presidente, real wrath of SysOp type stuff.
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15.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 06:25
15.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 06:25
Aug 16, 2011, 06:25
 
I agree this crap about having to kill is nonsense.

The idea a story has to be written where it comes to a screeching halt because you didn't kill someone is truly laughable. What the address or secret code does fall out of his ass unless he's dead? The sheer power of being beaten to an inch of his life still allows super human sphincter control! No lootz for you, his sphincter is still working.
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14.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 05:38
14.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 05:38
Aug 16, 2011, 05:38
 
OK please tell us all the different ways you did that fight. Did you like ... shoot him with a gun?

And then the next time did you ... shoot him with a different gun?

And then the next time, wait wait let me guess ... you shot him with still another gun?

A M A Z I N G

Human Revolution? MORE LIKE GAMEPLAY REVOLUTION HUH? A CHOICE OF GUNS.
13.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 04:34
J
13.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 04:34
Aug 16, 2011, 04:34
J
 
Squirmer wrote on Aug 16, 2011, 03:41:
Eidos only needed to think outside the box instead of forcing us into cliched BOSS BATTLES in which you comicly throw explosive barrels to kill them (at least the first one).

LULWUT? I've fought that guy different ways with each playthrough I had and I've never done it that way. You know what that means? It means you chose to do it that way - and now that's your argument against Eidos? That and twisting (and misinterpreting?) their context. You're like a running joke without a punchline.
nin: This forum is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Blue: What do you mean, "biblical"?
xXBatmanXx: What he means is Old BBS, El Presidente, real wrath of SysOp type stuff.
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12.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 04:13
12.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 04:13
Aug 16, 2011, 04:13
 
You could just run away from Simons (twice) and Maggie, and you never 'fight' Bob Page. There's Howard Strong in the missle silo who needs to die to progress, but I think he's the only one who can't be avoided or defeatable through non-combat means (unless you count him blowing himself up with a LAM). And in Invisible War you don't need to kill a single person.
11.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 03:56
11.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 03:56
Aug 16, 2011, 03:56
 
But players with an exploratory mind were rewarded with an alternative method: a kill phrase. Eidos only needed to think outside the box instead of forcing us into cliched BOSS BATTLES in which you comicly throw explosive barrels to kill them (at least the first one).

That's not completely true. If I remember right, you had to fight Walton Simmons, Maggie Chow and Bob Page. I think there was an emergent way to avoid Simmons but that wasn't what the designers intended.

In any case, I agree that boss fights should never be mandatory in RPGs. I also agree that light-based stealth would add more depth to the stealth experience. That said, I don't really consider it essential. If this were Splinter Cell or Thief, I would because those are pure stealth games, not hybrids. The individual mechanics of a hybrid game will never match up to games that specialize in those mechanics and I adjust my expectations accordingly.
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10.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 03:41
10.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 03:41
Aug 16, 2011, 03:41
 
I have played the HR leak and I do think it will be good. That doesn't mean I can't complain about the bad decisions and poor justifications Eidos is making. People always take a binary attitude to these things, like I either need to think HR is the best game ever made, or the worst. I think neither.

Firstly, in a story there needs to be a confrontation phase (have you never read a book?) that should never be OPTIONAL

I've actually read many books in which nobody died. Haven't you? There can still be conflict without actually killing anyone. And besides, even if you privilege the story over gameplay, there's no reason why you should have to engage in balls-to-the-wall combat in a Deus Ex game which is supposed to be all about playing how you want. You only need to look to the original game. You needed to kill Anna, for example. But players with an exploratory mind were rewarded with an alternative method: a kill phrase. Eidos only needed to think outside the box instead of forcing us into cliched BOSS BATTLES in which you comicly throw explosive barrels to kill them (at least the first one).

Second, he is talking about shadow systems, that means to spread shadows throughout levels so that players can sneak around even when realistically there'd be no shadows at all, this is unrealistic.

Oh look the realism argument. You must have missed my point: I don't care about realism. I care about gameplay. If HR had a light-based stealth system the gameplay possibilities would be increased. And a Deus Ex game should always, always be about gameplay possibilities. Imagine hacking into a computer system in order to turn off a facility's lights, which kicks in some sparse backup lights and also creates shadows for you to hide in. (And if you're going to give me the LED argument again, see above.)

Here's the thing: a light-based stealth system is ALSO a line of sight stealth system most of the time. You can still hide behind things just as effectively as you can in a line of sight only system. But you have the added complexity (and resultant possibilities) of playing with light sources. This was, of course, a key element in the Thief games, the best stealth series yet made.

HR's line of sight stealth merely removes options. It adds nothing. That's why it's inferior.

Let me repeat: I think HR will be well received. I think it'll be pretty good. I also think it'll be inferior to the original.

Here's the thing: the good stuff about HR Eidos owes to Ion Storm. They are the things they have emulated pretty well. The 'additions' and changes Eidos has made are almost uniformly bad. That doesn't mean the whole game will be bad. Just disappointing in a few ways.
9.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 03:33
9.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 03:33
Aug 16, 2011, 03:33
 
Firstly, in a story there needs to be a confrontation phase (have you never read a book?) that should never be OPTIONAL, as its an elementary element of story telling. So the game *has* to force the confrontation - particularly when its about personal revenge. Sure it might go a bit the Hollywood way with making those confrontations flashy and huge but why not..

I don't have a problem with confrontations. I just have a problem with combat being the only solution. In an RPG, there are many possible roles you can play. What if you've invested all your skill points into non-combat skills? You're basically screwed during boss fights. This happened in Alpha Protocol and KOTOR. It even happened in classic RPGs like Fallout and Arcanum (the final boss can only be defeated through violence or words, not stealth). If a game is going to let you make a diplomatic or stealth-based character, they need to ensure that both diplomacy and stealth are viable ways to complete the game.
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8.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 03:23
8.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 03:23
Aug 16, 2011, 03:23
 
Wow, never have read a rant that not only completely misses the point but quotes things without understanding what they mean. And this isn't the first post by you that does this, it seems to me you just bash "change" instead of thinking about why they are changes that had to be done.

Firstly, in a story there needs to be a confrontation phase (have you never read a book?) that should never be OPTIONAL, as its an elementary element of story telling. So the game *has* to force the confrontation - particularly when its about personal revenge. Sure it might go a bit the Hollywood way with making those confrontations flashy and huge but why not..

Second, he is talking about shadow systems, that means to spread shadows throughout levels so that players can sneak around even when realistically there'd be no shadows at all, this is unrealistic. (perfect example is the first level of Deus EX where there are crates and badly lit walls everywhere in the park, which is completely hilarious. In the age of LED lights there are simply no unlit places in high security areas. And yes, LED lights in such areas have batteries, you can cut the power all you want, it won't get dark! Welcome to the 21st century ;p (Deus EX was made when the technology of the real world wasn't as far as now, after all)

Sneaking should be, timing, overview, planning. Not hiding in a dark corner while an enemy walks by (realistically, those dark corners are places you'd put light sources first)

It befuddles me why you rant and rant and rant about Deus EX HR, if you liked Deus EX and don't like this you have a great option here.. not buying it.
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