Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A

A GameSpy Reader Q&A talks with Deus Ex: Human Revolution designer Antoine Thisdale about the upcoming action/RPG prequel and includes a recent IGN trailer where Thisdale answers other questions and shows off some gameplay footage. Here's his explanation of why they did away with weapon skills:
That's a very good question, and I have a very good answer. We wanted combat to rely on player skill, and not the fictional character's skill. We wanted to avoid the possibility of just buying the skill for sniper rifles, then you never use a sniper rifle, and later in the game you pick it up because, hey, that's going to be good for this situation -- and you take everyone down because you [bought the skill]. Also, one of the reasons for the skill system not being used is because it really portrays nanotechnology as mechanical. It's more about learning to physically use your body and use the mechanics that go with it, more than a skill-based system. It's kind of the same idea; we just spin it in a different way. But we didn't want it to directly affect combat with weapons. That was a very early choice, specifically because we wanted players to actually train with the weapons.
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47.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 15:53
47.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 15:53
Aug 16, 2011, 15:53
 
J wrote on Aug 16, 2011, 13:35:
Unlike Agent Navarre and Gunther Hermann, right? Their combat AI was splendid! Seriously, though, the boss in the HR leak seeks you out, tries to flush you out with grenades, and shoots a lot with his gun. It seems he has some trouble with gas though.

C'mon. You're dropped into a locked arena style setting (with columns no less) where you're forced to duke it out. That's boring, cliché and unimaginative, regardless of what game you're comparing to.

If you enter a firefight in HR without being clever and creative it's quite easy to come undone. It pays to be prepared in any group combat situation. Only today I was trapped by suppressive fire and then another sneaked around the balcony and dropped a grenade on me. Why? Because I forgot to move a box before it got shot to pieces - a box I could have used to get myself over an obstacle so I could flank them.

Great. So, the developer's justification of including boss fights as a gameplay mechanic necessary to force player creativeness is kind of moot then.
46.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 15:40
46.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 15:40
Aug 16, 2011, 15:40
 
J wrote on Aug 16, 2011, 10:46:
Prez wrote on Aug 16, 2011, 10:34:
Cover systems? I'll use one if you put one in, otherwise I'll just duck my own fat ass behind a wall, thanks.

Hey, guess what!? You can even not use the cover feature and play it like the original Deus Ex! And then the only time you see the third person is when you climb ladders. Don't tell the trolls, though

In all honesty I think they're really reaching to find something to complain about. Seriously... not being able to throw rubbish around, a new melee system, a handful of bosses who you have to kill (apparently, not confirmed)and shadows not making them go invisible. In the original Deus Ex you had to keep out of LOS whilst in the shadows. And even the pitch black areas require you to be facing the right way to benefit from the cover (as denoted by the current item you're holding and how much light it's reflecting).

Popcorn

It's not exactly reaching. Deus Ex had enough scope that each player took away different aspects that made the game work for them. Some people are going to love DX:HR, because it enhances those aspects. Other people are going to hate it, because it diludes the aspects they enjoyed. And of course the biggest but least vocal group will think its OK, because some of the aspects they liked are improved, new aspects are added they like, while other things are made worse or new features don't quite work.

Yes, not being able to throw rubbish is a big deal for me. I would prefer there to be no rubbish than to have a static object there. It's silly that the environment of a modern DX game has more static objects than, say, Crysis, where you could completely dismantle the huts and shoot trees down. Running into such an invisible wall yanks me out of the game - its as bad as say a bad special effect in a movie.
45.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 13:42
J
45.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 13:42
Aug 16, 2011, 13:42
J
 
nin wrote on Aug 16, 2011, 13:37:
J wrote on Aug 16, 2011, 12:43:
And here's a video of Squirmer playing the leaked version. He was very resourceful in not using any of his GUNS
(It may not actually be Squirmer, but the idea tickles me)


I had seen someone trying to throw fire extinguishers and wondered if they could be shot and cause dmg...

I don't know, to be honest. I've thrown them and they've started spraying but I've not yet thrown it at somebody to see if it stuns them in any way. I haven't tried shooting them either.

slight spoiler:
But that is a cool video...I used the rocket launcher, since I found it after I had already killed the spider tank. Knowing I had a boss fight coming up, I saved it, and found two more rounds for it. 3 hits from that and he was dead.
My first time I ended up sniping him in the head whenever I could, but since then I've gotten into the habit of stunning him and then unloading whatever I have to hand into him. I have been playing on the highest difficulty level so getting hit is rather painful!
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44.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 13:37
nin
 
44.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 13:37
Aug 16, 2011, 13:37
 nin
 
J wrote on Aug 16, 2011, 12:43:
And here's a video of Squirmer playing the leaked version. He was very resourceful in not using any of his GUNS
(It may not actually be Squirmer, but the idea tickles me)


I had seen someone trying to throw fire extinguishers and wondered if they could be shot and cause dmg...

slight spoiler:
But that is a cool video...I used the rocket launcher, since I found it after I had already killed the spider tank. Knowing I had a boss fight coming up, I saved it, and found two more rounds for it. 3 hits from that and he was dead.


43.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 13:35
J
43.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 13:35
Aug 16, 2011, 13:35
J
 
Pleco wrote on Aug 16, 2011, 13:17:
Strange, to me it just looks like a lame, unimaginative arena style fight against an annoyingly super human character with no AI to speak of.

Unlike Agent Navarre and Gunther Hermann, right? Their combat AI was splendid! Seriously, though, the boss in the HR leak seeks you out, tries to flush you out with grenades, and shoots a lot with his gun. It seems he has some trouble with gas though.

He justifies the boss fights as a way of "forcing" the player to be clever and creative. Why limit this to forced encounters? This is something that should be encouraged throughout the entire game, and I hope it is, because this is one thing the original DX did so well with its challenging and emergent style gameplay.

If you enter a firefight in HR without being clever and creative it's quite easy to come undone. It pays to be prepared in any group combat situation. Only today I was trapped by suppressive fire and then another sneaked around the balcony and dropped a grenade on me. Why? Because I forgot to move a box before it got shot to pieces - a box I could have used to get myself over an obstacle so I could flank them.

Guys need to stop reacting to specualtive ideas and try the hands-on experience before jumping the gun.
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42.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 13:17
42.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 13:17
Aug 16, 2011, 13:17
 
Strange, to me it just looks like a lame, unimaginative arena style fight against an annoyingly super human character with no AI to speak of.

He justifies the boss fights as a way of "forcing" the player to be clever and creative. Why limit this to forced encounters? This is something that should be encouraged throughout the entire game, and I hope it is, because this is one thing the original DX did so well with its challenging and emergent style gameplay.
41.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 12:43
J
41.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 12:43
Aug 16, 2011, 12:43
J
 
And here's a video of Squirmer playing the leaked version. He was very resourceful in not using any of his GUNS
(It may not actually be Squirmer, but the idea tickles me)
nin: This forum is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Blue: What do you mean, "biblical"?
xXBatmanXx: What he means is Old BBS, El Presidente, real wrath of SysOp type stuff.
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40.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 12:35
J
40.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 12:35
Aug 16, 2011, 12:35
J
 
This is what I like about these guys. They've put in what they like, they pro-actively sought out feedback from the internet, and even though they disagree with what people said, they've given the option because it's what people were passionate about.

They were straight up about it and they did it before the game was even released. That earns kudos from me.
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39.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 11:47
Verno
 
39.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 11:47
Aug 16, 2011, 11:47
 Verno
 
Exactly Slashman, well said. I don't think a lot of people here appreciate just how difficult it is to make a game that bridges console gamers and old school PC gamers. I think they managed to do that without alienating either crowd beyond the nitpickers.
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38.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 11:30
38.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 11:30
Aug 16, 2011, 11:30
 
I kind of tend to side with Prez in this instance. There are things I wish they had done differently, but if the sum total of its parts make a great game, I'm not going to try to call the developers incompetent.

I hate the flight controls for planes in Just Cause 2, but there is a whole other heaping chunk of gameplay and content that I absolutely love about it so I can hope they improve the flight controls in the next game.

As much as I hate sharing my game space with console gamers, I at least understand why some gameplay decisions on a multi-platform game might be made. And the ones listed here don't seem like deal breakers to me. It doesn't have a frickin' 'Awesome Button'.
37.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 11:03
37.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 11:03
Aug 16, 2011, 11:03
 
Eh, it's a bit of a weird explanation. I would have liked skills, but it's not a deal breaker.

Creston
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36.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 10:55
nin
 
36.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 10:55
Aug 16, 2011, 10:55
 nin
 
Hey, guess what!? You can even not use the cover feature and play it like the original Deus Ex! And then the only time you see the third person is when you climb ladders. Don't tell the trolls, though

Same thing goes for the people that complain about being able to see through walls.

Don't like it? Don't use it.
35.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 10:46
J
35.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 10:46
Aug 16, 2011, 10:46
J
 
Prez wrote on Aug 16, 2011, 10:34:
Cover systems? I'll use one if you put one in, otherwise I'll just duck my own fat ass behind a wall, thanks.

Hey, guess what!? You can even not use the cover feature and play it like the original Deus Ex! And then the only time you see the third person is when you climb ladders. Don't tell the trolls, though

In all honesty I think they're really reaching to find something to complain about. Seriously... not being able to throw rubbish around, a new melee system, a handful of bosses who you have to kill (apparently, not confirmed)and shadows not making them go invisible. In the original Deus Ex you had to keep out of LOS whilst in the shadows. And even the pitch black areas require you to be facing the right way to benefit from the cover (as denoted by the current item you're holding and how much light it's reflecting).

Popcorn
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34.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 10:45
Verno
 
34.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 10:45
Aug 16, 2011, 10:45
 Verno
 
Squirmer wrote on Aug 16, 2011, 10:29:
Oh you guys, listen to you with your 'gameplay in service of the story' guff. This a video game. Gameplay comes first. You rewrite and mould your story around the gameplay. Some designers still get this but it seems fewer and fewer do.

That's actually not what was said, they chose to make a specific game that tells a specific story. It's not about one overriding the other. If you don't like the kind of game or story then I'm not sure what else to say except tough, its gold and out in 9 days. What more are you looking for here exactly? Nothing is going to change between now and then so I guess you're going to be unhappy. The rest of us will evaluate the final game and decide from there. Personally based on the leak I believe I will enjoy it despite it not being a perfect Deus Ex replica.
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33.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 10:34
Prez
 
33.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 10:34
Aug 16, 2011, 10:34
 Prez
 
It's funny - most gamers have one idea of how systems should work in a game, and dislike anything else. I seem to have this weird quirk where I accept the game's systems as the designer presents them, and enjoy myself regardless of whether I think it's the ideal method.

Cover systems? I'll use one if you put one in, otherwise I'll just duck my own fat ass behind a wall, thanks.

Regenerating health? Sure, I'll groove to the slower pace that this sort of system mandates, otherwise I'll be happy running around picking up the magical floating health boxes with the red crosses on them.

Light based Stealth? Give me a cat suit, some water arrows, and guards with short attention spans, otherwise give me a corner, a peek option, and guards who don't turn corners. Fine either way.

First person? Damn look at those strong manly hands holding that slick gun! Third person? Man I got a sexy ass! It's all good.

Stat-based accuracy? I'll put all my skill points in close quarters rocket-launching, thanks. Oh, it's a player skill-reliant system? Your game has stealth in it, right?

Point is, I know I'll enjoy Deus Ex HR and Thief 4 without needing to second guess why they did this and not that. I consider myself lucky for being so unscrupulous.
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32.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 10:32
32.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 10:32
Aug 16, 2011, 10:32
 
Verno wrote on Aug 16, 2011, 09:42:
I don't know where you're getting that from, a lot of the old interview stuff I've read from members of the DX1 team indicates the game was largely a happy accident. So many aspects of the game were completely unintended, a lot of the development was very loosely formed by disparate small teams with little oversight. It's kind of a miracle the game turned out as well as it did, it was a product of its time in many ways. Many aspects of Deus Ex don't hold up very well on their own either, it's very much a sum of its parts experience.

The Ion Storm Austin team had overarching design principles that drove them. As evidenced in previous games that the team worked on: Ultima Underworld, System Shock and Thief, these were not all happy accidents.

Check the Arkane manifesto - that's what I'm talking about. They have a solid idea of what they want to achieve. What's the design ethos of Eidos Montreal?
31.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 10:29
31.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 10:29
Aug 16, 2011, 10:29
 
Oh you guys, listen to you with your 'gameplay in service of the story' guff. This a video game. Gameplay comes first. You rewrite and mould your story around the gameplay. Some designers still get this but it seems fewer and fewer do.
30.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 10:06
30.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 10:06
Aug 16, 2011, 10:06
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 16, 2011, 08:15:
But the light based stealth, while i totally agree it gives you more options, also makes sneaking WAY overpowered (not to mention that robots and enemies could potentially have thermal or IR vision)

What's your point? That because some enemies might be able to see you in dark that there's no point in having shadows?

You say light based stealth makes sneaking overpowered, but then go on to say that certain enemies might be able to see you, which has the very effect of balancing out "overpowered" stealth. Not to mention it encourages players to be more clever and approach stealth in different ways.

This comment was edited on Aug 16, 2011, 10:39.
29.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 09:42
Verno
 
29.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 09:42
Aug 16, 2011, 09:42
 Verno
 
Cloning or trying to clone the original Dx wouldn't of course be a good idea. However, even leaving the game or press build experience side for a minute and just read what these guys are saying makes it pretty clear it's like putting a kiddie bicycle next to a car or a bike.
That's the level of difference between the two dev teams.
Warren or anybody from the team when asked questions in an interview gave comprehensible and logical answers which made their objectives, ideas and reasoning very clear.
From what I've read and seen these guys are all over the map, half of the answers on the above Q&A show that very well.
"We added 3rd person to show how cool Adam is" what the hell ?

I don't know where you're getting that from, a lot of the old interview stuff I've read from members of the DX1 team indicates the game was largely a happy accident. So many aspects of the game were completely unintended, a lot of the development was very loosely formed by disparate small teams with little oversight. It's kind of a miracle the game turned out as well as it did, it was a product of its time in many ways. Many aspects of Deus Ex don't hold up very well on their own either, it's very much a sum of its parts experience.

From what I've read and seen these guys are all over the map, half of the answers on the above Q&A show that very well.
"We added 3rd person to show how cool Adam is" what the hell ?

It's a team, not just one guy making the game. As for the Adam comment, they wanted to create a more convincing player character this time around and without model customization the easiest visual aid for that is some third person sections. Keep in mind they're also making a game for a widely varied audience, not everyone is going to be as good as you or I at Deus Ex games so things like the melee takedowns are more aimed at them. That doesn't ruin our experience with the game. I can still play it stealthily using other methods and enjoy it despite knowing that Johnny Xbox is doing his own thing too.
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28.
 
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A
Aug 16, 2011, 09:40
28.
Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Q&A Aug 16, 2011, 09:40
Aug 16, 2011, 09:40
 
Also a console first, unfortunately also with some failed gameplay decisions. It did have more interactivity though.
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