verrul wrote on Jul 26, 2011, 12:27:
Probably end up being like all other steam DRM. Only needed for activation once after that you can run it from the steamapps without loading steam. I really dont get why people get so up in arms over the most non-invasive DRM out there.

Pretty sure you never responded after I replied about the last time you said this. I tried this on my games and found almost none of the ones I tried would work that way.

StingingVelvet wrote on Jul 26, 2011, 20:12:

Creston wrote on Jul 26, 2011, 19:44:
I bought Risen a few weeks ago, and lo and behold, it tried to install fucking Tages.

As far as I know my Risen copy on disc has no DRM what-so-ever.

Yep, I got suckered by Deep Silver, who are a bunch of morons on a Ubisoft level. No DRM on the retail version, but add extra DRM on the Steam version. I'm sure it made sense to some cockwallet that works for them.

Creston

StingingVelvet wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 01:44:
I don't give a shit what their FAQ says. Thanks anyway.

Maybe you should care about it instead of relying on a loophole that is bound to be closed. I can run most of my games without Steam by just making a link to the executables and using AppID spoofs but I don't rely on it because it's not bound to work forever.

Jerykk wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 02:21:

I don't give a shit what their FAQ says. Thanks anyway.

So you're saying that the GamersGate installer doesn't require an internet connection? If that's the case, that's pretty cool. I might buy stuff from GamersGate more often. However, I don't know why they would make inaccurate claims in their official FAQ.

Your download the games through an app. When the games are downloaded the app launches the installer. If you backup the download during this timeframe it has no DRM on it from Gamersgate what-so-ever. After installation GG will remove the files or encrypt the installer, but during installation they are DRM free.

I don't like explaining it in detail because the more publicized it is the more likely it will go away. GG themselves know about it though, and their customer support crew basically wink and nod at you if you ask them about it.

I don't give a shit what their FAQ says. Thanks anyway.

So you're saying that the GamersGate installer doesn't require an internet connection? If that's the case, that's pretty cool. I might buy stuff from GamersGate more often. However, I don't know why they would make inaccurate claims in their official FAQ.

Risen 2: The Rise of Risen

I could keep going all night...

Jerykk wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 00:30:

StingingVelvet wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 00:25:

Jerykk wrote on Jul 26, 2011, 23:11:
Agreed. With the GOG part, at least. Gamersgate still requires online activations. GOG has no DRM whatsoever. When GOG is not an option, a rudimentary CD-check is my second choice (and I mean rudimentary; no TAGES or SecuRom crap).

Gamersgate has no DRM of its own. It does download and install through an app, but you can backup the file during installation and it has no Gamersgate added DRM. They do of course carry games with DRM on them from the developer/publisher.

http://www.gamersgate.com/info/faq

Can I download the game on my office PC and install it on my home PC which does not have an internet connection?

No, you cannot. Internet connection is required to install games. If the target computer has slow download bandwidth, then the game can be downloaded on another computer and then transferred in any way to your original computer. There you can use them to install, but connection is needed to sign in and start the installation process.

NOTE: Internet connection is required for performing the installation process. Installation cannot be made manually. It is done automatically and it requires internet connection to be performed properly.

I don't give a shit what their FAQ says. Thanks anyway.

StingingVelvet wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 00:25:

Jerykk wrote on Jul 26, 2011, 23:11:
Agreed. With the GOG part, at least. Gamersgate still requires online activations. GOG has no DRM whatsoever. When GOG is not an option, a rudimentary CD-check is my second choice (and I mean rudimentary; no TAGES or SecuRom crap).

Gamersgate has no DRM of its own. It does download and install through an app, but you can backup the file during installation and it has no Gamersgate added DRM. They do of course carry games with DRM on them from the developer/publisher.

http://www.gamersgate.com/info/faq

Can I download the game on my office PC and install it on my home PC which does not have an internet connection?

No, you cannot. Internet connection is required to install games. If the target computer has slow download bandwidth, then the game can be downloaded on another computer and then transferred in any way to your original computer. There you can use them to install, but connection is needed to sign in and start the installation process.

NOTE: Internet connection is required for performing the installation process. Installation cannot be made manually. It is done automatically and it requires internet connection to be performed properly.

Jerykk wrote on Jul 26, 2011, 23:11:
Agreed. With the GOG part, at least. Gamersgate still requires online activations. GOG has no DRM whatsoever. When GOG is not an option, a rudimentary CD-check is my second choice (and I mean rudimentary; no TAGES or SecuRom crap).

Gamersgate has no DRM of its own. It does download and install through an app, but you can backup the file during installation and it has no Gamersgate added DRM. They do of course carry games with DRM on them from the developer/publisher.

I just prefer a simple list of installers like GOG or Gamersgate. That is my preference. When that is an option I will choose it. When it isn't I will say I wish it was.

Agreed. With the GOG part, at least. Gamersgate still requires online activations. GOG has no DRM whatsoever. When GOG is not an option, a rudimentary CD-check is my second choice (and I mean rudimentary; no TAGES or SecuRom crap). While Steam offers a lot of useul features like cloud saves, autopatching, and the ability to download my games onto any PC, the fact that I'll lose all my games if Valves goes bankrupt or my account gets deleted is never reassuring.

I don't know - I'm getting from user forums that the retail version of Risen has nothing but a disc check. It seems that they inexplicably used TAGES only for the digital versions. How goddamned stupid!

I think they added (or updated) TAGES with the latest patch. I know because a bunch of new TAGES files appeared in the game's folder after I patched.

necrosis wrote on Jul 26, 2011, 20:49:
Is Steam really that damned bad? 5-10 seconds of your life that precious to you? Seriously I can not fathom your reasons for hating Steam. Your reasons for hating it are so shallow its laughable. Its like complaining it takes to long to open your front door because you need to get the keys out of your pocket.

Your issue seems to be that you jump to the conclusion I hate it based on some complaints and a preference for other methods. I have never said I hate Steam, not once. I use Steam extremely often and just today bought Deus Ex 3 on it.

I just prefer a simple list of installers like GOG or Gamersgate. That is my preference. When that is an option I will choose it. When it isn't I will say I wish it was. The PC gaming community seems to think anything said against Steam is venomous.

StingingVelvet wrote on Jul 26, 2011, 15:14:

Icewind wrote on Jul 26, 2011, 14:10:
Internet and PC neophytes like you crack me up, Velvet boy.

Long boot times? How slow is your PC? Are you running something from the stone age?

Steam *is* the least invasive out there. Plus unlike any other DRM, you can buy games for less than 5 bucks when they are 10x that in retail.

I love laughing at the anti-steam pussy sniffers like you. All the cock-sucking little pansy ass fuckers that think Steam is some boogy man out to rape their virgin assholes.

Fucking pussy.

Do you think this kind of personality is doing you any favors? Honestly? Does your wife realize this is who you really are when given anonymity and no restrictions on what you say?

As for the only actual technical issue you addressed, no it does not take THAT long for Steam to boot up, but it takes a hell of a lot fucking longer than just double clicking a simple exe without DRM on it does.

While I do not agree with his way of expressing his opinion I do agree with it.

Is Steam really that damned bad? 5-10 seconds of your life that precious to you? Seriously I can not fathom your reasons for hating Steam. Your reasons for hating it are so shallow its laughable. Its like complaining it takes to long to open your front door because you need to get the keys out of your pocket.

I don't know - I'm getting from user forums that the retail version of Risen has nothing but a disc check. It seems that they inexplicably used TAGES only for the digital versions. How goddamned stupid!

As far as I know my Risen copy on disc has no DRM what-so-ever.

AFAIK, Risen retail has Tages disc-check.

This comment was edited on Jul 26, 2011, 20:41.

Creston wrote on Jul 26, 2011, 19:44:
I bought Risen a few weeks ago, and lo and behold, it tried to install fucking Tages.

As far as I know my Risen copy on disc has no DRM what-so-ever.

Darks wrote on Jul 26, 2011, 17:58:
News flash for you Velvet, there is nothing new or innovative anymore. it’s all been there and done that already. Everything is a rehash of something so get used to it or fucking quit playing games.

I said that in the very post you quoted, man. Don't tell me shit I already said. My point is that knights, dragons and castles still outweigh other RPG settings by like 100 to 1.

Tages is a horrible piece of shit. It's BARELY above Starforce. It installs itself as drivers, gives itself access to the zero ring thereby leaving your system widely vulnerable to all kinds of fun exploits and rootkits, and trying to uninstall it is like having your fucking teeth pulled.

I bought Risen a few weeks ago, and lo and behold, it tried to install fucking Tages.

I fucking hate Deep Silver (they're also the assholes who put Starforce on the X series), and I hope they quickly go the way of fucking JoWood.

Creston

So, since Risen 2 has Steamworks...

Will Risen 1 Steam version have the unnecessary additional Tages DRM removed? :oP

I really don't get the guys upset about Steamworks in this case. This isn't a DRM-free/sensible implementation of DRM title suddenly switching to something much more restrictive for the sequel.

It was Tages. Poorly done Tages, at that.

The retail version was the disk check form but it was so poorly done that the dreaded "insert the original DVD" error was fairly common, forcing you to contact support to get an activation key that was only good for one activation. Retail's DRM wasn't that bad but it wasn't particularly good either, the problem is that they completely missed the boat with the digital versions in a time where that's what a lot (not all, don't yell at me Velvet) of PC gamers seem to prefer.

It's bad enough that it used Tages at all, but 3 activation limit, no revokes, and no regenerating activations? As someone that genuinely prefers digital distribution (be it Steam, D2D, GoG, or GamersGate...the only one I simply won't use anymore is Impulse), this immediately killed any interest I may have had for Risen no matter how cheap it gets.

I realize certain people in this thread prefer physical copies over digital distribution, but even for them this was hardly ideal. You'd have to really, truly hate Steam and Steamworks to prefer Risen 1's DRM over what Risen 2 will be using, quality of the games aside.

Securom doesn't give me the added features that Steam does, so looking at Steam as just DRM is taking a very narrow view of things. Granted these may not be personally of any value to some people, but it doesn't change the fact that Steam is far more than DRM, and to present it as only that is disingenuous to say the least.