Yeah I have to go with Jerykk on this one. They keep talking about the open ended nature of the game but everything I've seen so far points to incredibly tight scripting. Nothing inherently wrong with a scripted experience but please stop trying to sell the game as something it's not. I'd like to believe them but it's time for show instead of tell.

But the developers have already said that it is still mostly systems. You could run straight to the horse and shoot it. You can kill random civilians.

Did Irrational explicitly state that you could do those things? I highly doubt you can shoot the horse because the game forces you to holster your weapon when you leave the store and doesn't let you unholster until after the scripted event where you look at the mansion in the distance. I also highly doubt you can shoot civilians, as that would contradict the protagonist's personality and his relationship with Elizabeth.

This and Deus Ex on are my Blackout list. Haven't watching anything dealing with the game in at least a month. Really trying to let the whole experience be a surprise.

Or more likely a massive disappointment.

This and Deus Ex on are my Blackout list. Haven't watching anything dealing with the game in at least a month. Really trying to let the whole experience be a surprise. Little bits slip through but so far so good! Everyone went nuts for this demo so I can't wait to play it.

But the developers have already said that it is still mostly systems. You could run straight to the horse and shoot it. You can kill random civilians. You can avoid the Vox as much as possible, or just shoot them. I liken it to a GTA style game. You may find a scripted event or you may not. Interactions with various civilians or the Vox are scripted like if you run into police in GTA or rob civilians (except obviously more AI). There is scripting going on but it reacts to what is going on and what you do.

Hope you all like scripted gameplay..press button A.

jdreyer wrote on Jul 10, 2011, 04:55:
(heh, they opened a portal to Return of the Jedi in theaters, they should have stayed),

Minor point, but it was REVENGE of the Jedi on the marquee... assuming its an alternate timeline reference and/or just wanting to not be sued.

And while the action seems largely typical FPS (point and shoot) the rollercoaster travel all over the place adds a unique dimension to the combat.

Yeah, that looked quite awesome... I assume you can just tell the various companions you get during the game to just wait, while you spend 4+ hours flying around the city on those rails.

This just reinforces my belief in patience, and buying 'AAA' games when they go on sale in 6 months to a year after release, and are somewhat patched up.

THIS.

I have spent about 100 hours in Oblivion and only made it about half way through the main story line. I love the openness and being able to follow whichever direction my whim takes me in.

On the other hand I really enjoy the deep story involvement a heavily scripted game like the SP of COD4-MW (and MW2) can deliver. It was like playing a good action movie, and while it had its artificial moments, for the most part you just get caught up in doing your part in accomplishing the mission.

This trailer seems more like Modern Warfare, although probably not THAT linear, but certainly not completely open like Oblivion. It seems like you could have shot the horse, and it wouldn't have made a difference (heh, they opened a portal to Return of the Jedi in theaters, they should have stayed), but it might have (remember in the original the choice betw harvesting the sisters or rescuing, and the results of that?). However, what made it great was the fantastic voice acting, and the script, both of which seem really good. And while the action seems largely typical FPS (point and shoot) the rollercoaster travel all over the place adds a unique dimension to the combat.

This looks like it's going to be an amazing "interactive movie" when it comes out. If the SP of MW was your cup of tea, this looks like you'll be quite happy. If you hated that, then you should stay away from this.

Jerykk wrote on Jul 10, 2011, 01:44:
The horse part was completely scripted too, as were all the interactions between the Vox and civilians. In fact, a lot of the stuff they showed couldn't work without heavy scripting. For example, what if the first thing I did after leaving the store was run to the horse and then shoot it in the head? What if the next thing I did after that was shoot a random civilian in the head? Hell, what if I killed every civilian I saw? Would Elizabeth still enjoy my company?

My guess is that you can't reach the horse before Elizabeth and you can't shoot the civilians. That's the problem with trying to tell a very specific story and convey a very specific experience. You have to take control away from the player and I saw a lot of that in the demo.

You are probably right, and I'll definitely be playing this game attempting to break the scripting, but aside from that it looks very interesting. Appears to have about the same level of scripting as Dead Space 2, but I loved Dead Space 2 on the pc, I'm afraid to say.

In comparison, Oblivion is wide open for player control, and frankly it's boring as hell. I've never come close to finishing Oblivion, even with the mods. On that note, I hope Skyrim is actually a decent game, and not just another wilderness sandbox.

Replay value drops with heavily scripted events, usually, but it doesn't mean the game won't be fun the first time. This just reinforces my belief in patience, and buying 'AAA' games when they go on sale in 6 months to a year after release, and are somewhat patched up.

swedishfriend wrote on Jul 10, 2011, 01:11:
It is mostly systems! The faction of people that notice the two protagonists are looking for them. You can avoid them and avoid raising their attention as much as possible. Same with the bird. The zip-lines you can jump on and off anytime you want in any direction you aim. They show you where you will land with that circle which probably has some auto-aim to make it easier to navigate at high speeds. The bird scare at the store and then the bird taking the girl away were the only two events that I would call strictly scripted. I mean you could say that everything in a game like GTA4 is scripted but I don't think that is what people usually mean when they say a game is heavily scripted.

The horse part was completely scripted too, as were all the interactions between the Vox and civilians. In fact, a lot of the stuff they showed couldn't work without heavy scripting. For example, what if the first thing I did after leaving the store was run to the horse and then shoot it in the head? What if the next thing I did after that was shoot a random civilian in the head? Hell, what if I killed every civilian I saw? Would Elizabeth still enjoy my company?

My guess is that you can't reach the horse before Elizabeth and you can't shoot the civilians. That's the problem with trying to tell a very specific story and convey a very specific experience. You have to take control away from the player and I saw a lot of that in the demo.

That trailer looks absolutely awesome - seems to have a good story and great graphics - hopefully its not too heavily scripted though. I just love the art deco style of the bioshock universe - its so unique compared to so many other shooters out there - they definitely have some great designers working on their games.

That was insane. It's incredibly obvious that the controls in that demo were nothing more than "Press A to win". The whole time I was wondering WTF was happening. That is not what I'm looking for from a Bioshock game.

It is mostly systems! The faction of people that notice the two protagonists are looking for them. You can avoid them and avoid raising their attention as much as possible. Same with the bird. The zip-lines you can jump on and off anytime you want in any direction you aim. They show you where you will land with that circle which probably has some auto-aim to make it easier to navigate at high speeds. The bird scare at the store and then the bird taking the girl away were the only two events that I would call strictly scripted. I mean you could say that everything in a game like GTA4 is scripted but I don't think that is what people usually mean when they say a game is heavily scripted.

bigspender wrote on Jul 9, 2011, 18:53:

Acleacius wrote on Jul 9, 2011, 18:49:
Looks great, count me in!

It's scripted becasue they are tying to give an example of the story and gameplay. The progression had to make sense in the context of the presentation.

Complaining becasue a preview is scripted is like going to a movie and complaining you don't get to make the decisions and choose the paths during the movie.

we're complaining that the game is scripted not the presentation (of course its going to be set up to show off the game)

the gameplay itself looks like you don't really have any control over the game, it might as well be a movie

edit: that was the first 15 minutes of the game apparantly not an example.

Actually that part of the game is from the end of the 3rd level of the game. If you watch the extended cuts interview with Levine on GT, he says that explicitly.

DrEvil wrote on Jul 9, 2011, 13:20:

nin wrote on Jul 9, 2011, 12:34:
If that's the same one from here (sorry, I'm not creating/logging into a youtube account to watch a video), it looks amazing.

I just hope they don't fuck it up with GFMFW...

Easily solved, just change any youtube URL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=attvYJb6xn8

...like this:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/attvYJb6xn8

...vwalla! No more age check.

Voila.

we're complaining that the game is scripted not the presentation (of course its going to be set up to show off the game)

the gameplay itself looks like you don't really have any control over the game, it might as well be a movie

Exactly. Obviously the person presenting the demo has a very specific plan and is going to try to show specific things. That's not the issue here. The issue is that the level design itself looks heavily scripted. This demo had more blatantly scripted events than both System Shock 2 and Bioshock combined.

Acleacius wrote on Jul 9, 2011, 18:49:
Looks great, count me in!

It's scripted becasue they are tying to give an example of the story and gameplay. The progression had to make sense in the context of the presentation.

Complaining becasue a preview is scripted is like going to a movie and complaining you don't get to make the decisions and choose the paths during the movie.

we're complaining that the game is scripted not the presentation (of course its going to be set up to show off the game)

the gameplay itself looks like you don't really have any control over the game, it might as well be a movie

edit: that was the first 15 minutes of the game apparantly not an example.

Doma wrote on Jul 9, 2011, 18:27:
that... looks pretty boring.

Think I'll pass

it really does look boring - i'm having a hard time trying to understand what you actually do to PLAY the game, seems like you just walk from one canned/scripted animation/event to another one.

like i'm wondering at the beginning when the room is being scanned - what if you don't duck behind the table? I bet nothing happens regardless of what you do.

Looks great, count me in!

It's scripted becasue they are tying to give an example of the story and gameplay. The progression had to make sense in the context of the presentation.

Complaining becasue a preview is scripted is like going to a movie and complaining you don't get to make the decisions and choose the paths during the movie.