Beamer wrote on Jun 17, 2011, 11:33:
anyone remember the old text adventures where you could type anything the pc would pick up keywords and react with more or less appropriate dialog instead of a preset of lines? npc dialog was an open prompt
No, I remember:
Pick up rock - what do you mean "pick up?"
grab rock - what do you mean "grab?"
take rock - what do you mean "take?"
put rock in pocket - what do you mean "put?"
kick rock - what do you mean "kick?"
use rock as bludgeon to kill designer of game - what do you mean "designer of game?"
Many of us hold old game designs we loved on a pedestal, but I'd guess that if we went back and played a serious hit game from a decade ago that we somehow missed we'd find it less enjoyable than modern games.
It's also that puzzles made sense in the context of HL2. I don't think they'd make as much sense in DNF, not that I've yet played. It's like if you put Portal puzzles into Serious Sam - no one would enjoy them even if they love Portal.
Duke3D was as much about finding keys and passages as it was combat though. DNF just replaces the keys with physics puzzles
Beamer wrote on Jun 17, 2011, 11:18:
It's also that puzzles made sense in the context of HL2. I don't think they'd make as much sense in DNF, not that I've yet played. It's like if you put Portal puzzles into Serious Sam - no one would enjoy them even if they love Portal.
anyone remember the old text adventures where you could type anything the pc would pick up keywords and react with more or less appropriate dialog instead of a preset of lines? npc dialog was an open prompt
StingingVelvet wrote on Jun 17, 2011, 01:50:
I was in a similar debate elsewhere and eventually the guy I was debating with just came out and said Half-Life 2 is "old" and "a slog to play through now."
It seems some people move on and never look back.
Jerykk wrote on Jun 16, 2011, 18:11:Well, you need to have something worthwhile to do if you're not shooting stuff, and it sounds like people feel Duke doesn't. Sounds like they also feel that the puzzles are a step back from HL2, which makes no sense considering HL2 is what, 7 years old now?
The question is why they dislike the non-combat segments. Do they dislike them simply because of what they are or do they dislike their actual implementation? It seems like many people just hated the fact that you were platforming, solving puzzles or driving instead of shooting aliens, regardless of how well these things were implemented. I like platforming and puzzle-solving and I enjoyed their implementation in DNF. Driving, not so much, but I don't like vehicles in shooters at all so that has less to do with implementation and more to do with the mere presence of the driving segment. I felt the platforming and puzzles were on par with the HL games, which isn't necessarily a bad thing because the HL games still hold up well today.
Well, you need to have something worthwhile to do if you're not shooting stuff, and it sounds like people feel Duke doesn't. Sounds like they also feel that the puzzles are a step back from HL2, which makes no sense considering HL2 is what, 7 years old now?
They repeatedly state that the player doesn't spend enough time shooting things but the very same thing could be said of the HL games.
Jerykk wrote on Jun 16, 2011, 16:24:
Oh, nobody is denying that the HL games implemented these ideas better than DNF. However, from what I've read, most reviewers aren't complaining about the implementation of platforming, puzzle-solving and driving in DNF. They're complaining about the very existence of said mechanics. They repeatedly state that the player doesn't spend enough time shooting things but the very same thing could be said of the HL games.
So, again I haven't played, it seems like the HL comparison is fair in that it's a direct attempt to make HL with Duke, but unfair when discussing the successful use of those ideas. It fit HL because it felt deliberate. It doesn't fit Duke because nothing feels deliberate at all, like you say.
Verno wrote on Jun 16, 2011, 13:50:
I don't agree at all with the HL comparison.
I don't agree at all with the HL comparison.
Jerykk wrote on Jun 16, 2011, 04:04:
That said, I don't think the misogynistic humor was the only reason why they hate DNF. A lot of people really hate platforming and DNF had plenty of that. If you check out the GiantBomb quicklook, you get a pretty good sense of the general tastes a lot of people have these days. Jeff Gerstmann also complained about the underwater segments, which I thought were entertaining. I'd really love to know how these reviewers feel about the HL games, given that the series has many of the gameplay mechanics that they apparently hate.
Bumpy wrote on Jun 16, 2011, 09:34:
PC is just a port of the console versions. They are all the same game, how is it any worse?
Verno wrote on Jun 16, 2011, 08:31:
Have any of you played the 360 port? It's exceptionally bad and rough. I can easily see it justifiably getting those scores.