Indeed. Thankfully they relented in the end.

reisub wrote on Jun 3, 2011, 19:30:
My memory may well be sketchy on this but for what it's worth I think the ZS (the card I had before my current one) offered the possibility fairly early on and IIRC with daniel_k's drivers you got it for free in the end.

Certainly paled in comparison to the NForce2's hardware solution though. I remember people hanging onto those boards for quite a while for that reason.

You mean the daniel_k drivers that creative said had to be pulled because they said he was infringing?

My memory may well be sketchy on this but for what it's worth I think the ZS (the card I had before my current one) offered the possibility fairly early on and IIRC with daniel_k's drivers you got it for free in the end.

Certainly paled in comparison to the NForce2's hardware solution though. I remember people hanging onto those boards for quite a while for that reason.

reisub wrote on Jun 3, 2011, 16:07:

Dev wrote on Jun 2, 2011, 22:20:
Last time I checked, creative still hadn't added dolby digital live feature to their cards.

They've had it since at least the Audigy 2 ZS.

I just did some quick research and its optional in the x-fi series. I didn't see any mention of the audigy.
Of course, creative charges an extra $5 to get this feature since they don't make enough on selling the sound cards themselves.
creative link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital#Dolby_Digital_Live

Edit: some more research
creative link
Looks like they offer it for audigy series too not just the 2 zs, which must be fairly recent. My guess is they back ported it to previous cards since its just a software thing. Its another software based feature that applies to a wide range of their cards. The only reason the older cards are getting it is because they charge for this instead of including it. That $100-$200 price paid for most of these cards is apparently not enough for creative.

Dev wrote on Jun 2, 2011, 22:20:
Last time I checked, creative still hadn't added dolby digital live feature to their cards.

They've had it since at least the Audigy 2 ZS.

The Sound Core3D is available in two configurations: An HD audio configuration for PC products and an embedded configuration for consumer electronic products."

Also, the former comes with no drivers worth the name whatsoever.

Creston

link: http://www.creative.com/oem/products/chips/soundcore3d.asp
aka "please give us more money."
They've been using iterations of the same DSP for something like 10 years now? Ever since the SB live!
And in many cases, the next gen card had only SOFTWARE improvements while having the exact same chip. They went after people who made software to bring those improvements to older gen cards.

If this is something actually new, it will be first time in a very long time.

My current sound card is an x-fi and I've owned audigy and of course live! but I get upset at them everytime since they are so far behind the curve in hardware and also sux nutz with drivers.

PHJF wrote on May 31, 2011, 20:01:

99% of onboard chips with optical or other digital outs can not output more than stereo in digital format. They downmix it to stereo. My current motherboard does this.

Oh they can output 5.1 just fine as long as the source material is encoded in Dolby Digital format (which 99% of games do not use). A few onboard audio solutions support Dolby Digital Live, which is used to reencode incoming audio put out a proper Dolby Digital signal, the requirement for 5.1 over SPDIF.

Yeah, and that was a feature of nforce 2 mobos with soundstorm YEARS AND YEARS AGO. I really was disappointed in nvidia for dropping that, if they had kept developing the sound chip, those would have been my only mobos from then on. Last time I checked, creative still hadn't added dolby digital live feature to their cards.
Which is why most PC sound solutions have to run both digital and analog audio since games have to use analog to get 5.1
Yet another example of creative sitting back, going to sleep and not bothering to add features. Isn't it only recently they bothered to do a pci-express version? I wonder if its native yet or still a bridge chip.


This comment was edited on Jun 2, 2011, 22:32.

The problem is different algorithms suit different ears. DH is great for some but not all, same goes for Creative's implementation.

Indeed. Everyone else (hardware & software) basically doesn't give a damn about you if you don't have 5.1 audio. Creative is really the only manufacturer producing a product for positional audio with headphones & 2/2.1 speaker configurations.

Creative does not have a monopoly on virtual surround. There are products featuring Dolby Headphone, the alternative to Creative's CMSS3D. A lot of the USB headphones out there run DH for positioning, and it's a feature on all Asus Xonar sound cards.

The Advocate wrote on Jun 1, 2011, 08:05:

Please excuse my ignorance on this. Using HDMI to the receiver, can I pipe out only audio off the video card? It's an MSI 480GTX.

I've never tried it but I will give it a shot when I get home later. Why would you want to do this out of curiosity? I guess I can't see why not, I would just try selecting the HDMI audio out device in Windows.

Nate wrote on May 31, 2011, 20:21:
You want to go HDMI. Assuming your receiver supports HDMI or your buying a new one. Then you just need the video card, which you may already have since your reading Blue's News.

Please excuse my ignorance on this. Using HDMI to the receiver, can I pipe out only audio off the video card? It's an MSI 480GTX.

reisub wrote on May 31, 2011, 15:00:
I'm an informed consumer but still choose Creative. I can't live without their HRTF.

Indeed. Everyone else (hardware & software) basically doesn't give a damn about you if you don't have 5.1 audio. Creative is really the only manufacturer producing a product for positional audio with headphones & 2/2.1 speaker configurations.

The Advocate wrote on May 31, 2011, 13:02:
I used to use onboard sound and it did a very good job with a 5.1 system with those multicolored 1/8" jacks.

Then I moved to a receiver with a home theatre 7.1 setup and discovered that the optical out on my onboard audio only does stereo as confirmed by the board manufacturer.

Regrettably, I am now using a Soundblaster drop-in until I upgrade the whole system and find a board that supports 7.1 Dolby on optical.

Uh, forget optical. You want to go HDMI. Assuming your receiver supports HDMI or your buying a new one. Then you just need the video card, which you may already have since your reading Blue's News.

Linthat22 wrote on May 31, 2011, 12:04:
I took out my soundcard since I've been running the HDMI out from my ATI card into my receiver. No issues, what so ever.

Doing the same. MB On board sound disabled in BIOS. HDMI/LPCM 7.1 for the win!

Nuhauser wrote on May 31, 2011, 19:45:
Years ago I saw better framerate performance in games with a soundcard compared to using the sound attached to my motherboard. Wondering if this still applies today? I'd love to see some comparisons.

Multi-threading and more than one core really fixed the whole problem with onboard software based audio, and the system being choked with not enough bandwidth for everything. Well for the most part. You don't really have frame, or rendering problems unless the drivers are a steaming pile of dogshit. Which happens occasionally.

99% of onboard chips with optical or other digital outs can not output more than stereo in digital format. They downmix it to stereo. My current motherboard does this.

Oh they can output 5.1 just fine as long as the source material is encoded in Dolby Digital format (which 99% of games do not use). A few onboard audio solutions support Dolby Digital Live, which is used to reencode incoming audio put out a proper Dolby Digital signal, the requirement for 5.1 over SPDIF.

It doesn't apply anymore, you can check pretty much any modern benchmark. Non-professional sound processing takes like 1% of one core.

Years ago I saw better framerate performance in games with a soundcard compared to using the sound attached to my motherboard. Wondering if this still applies today? I'd love to see some comparisons.

I bought an Asus Xonar DX for $70 about a year ago and the difference in audio quality from the onboard sound, for me at least, is substantial.

Crisper, less noise.

I have a brand new motherboard with a "good" onboard sound chip, but guess what? 99% of onboard chips with optical or other digital outs can not output more than stereo in digital format. They downmix it to stereo. My current motherboard does this. Hence, i use my now aging X-Fi XtremeMusic (was only available for a short period after the x-fi brand was introduced). It's the only way i can get 5.1 audio from digital.