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Evening Metaverse

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13. Re: Evening Metaverse Apr 14, 2011, 00:21 Beamer
 
I'm somewhat afraid he is legit, but at this point it's moot. Plus it's nicer to envision a world where Reagan didn't cut the funding to help those like him get better.  
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12. Re: Evening Metaverse Apr 14, 2011, 00:18 Sepharo
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 13, 2011, 23:54:
Yes, do stop taking the troll bait.

My definition of troll: Someone posting disingenuously specifically to elicit a response.

The disingenuous part is the point of contention among definitions.

So it's hard to believe that he's legit but a long posting history and occasional gaming posts imply otherwise.
 
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11. Re: Evening Metaverse Apr 13, 2011, 23:54 Beamer
 
Yes, do stop taking the troll bait.


Anyway, the reason it's worth considering as a right is that daily life is becoming more and more difficult without it, and we're quickly advancing to a point where it'll be impossible. Look at that second headline - 70% of Americans e-filed their taxes. How long until any other option is wasteful? Can't do that if there are still people without internet access, though.
 
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http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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10. Re: Evening Metaverse Apr 13, 2011, 23:20 Sepharo
 
LittleMe wrote on Apr 13, 2011, 22:03:
I'm not. I'm a firm believer in the notion that 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions.' In that tone, I think the Internet viewed as a human right is potentially a dangerous one.

Are you saying he's not a part of the educational elite?

ps. it was you who started accusing and making personal attacks. I say you are the troll, not I.

I'll address these in reverse order:

I didn't make any personal attacks. You have the entirety of my post quoted. Given your posting history I know you're not trolling, hence the phrasing. The "but..." is supposed to be implied, that's my terse speaking/writing style's fault, sorry.

What is the educational elite? Do you mean he's educated? Why yes he is, and he's very fortunate to be so.


Your post reads like a troll post:
He's arguing for central planning. He's an elitist. He's using glowy-sounding rhetoric that favors the globalist agenda. He despises 'conspiracy theories' and wants to bring the world's poor under control and influence of the globalists.
So the usual garbage from you. Berners-Lee is part of a vast conspiracy to turn the third world into more of sweatshop than it already is by providing internet access and durable cheap laptops to students who couldn't possibly afford them. Just look at these bushmen, how dare we invade their schools with our imperialist technology destined to enslave them.

The efforts to modernize the third world have brought incredible suffering there.
More like the slavery, colonialism, national boundaries irrespective of cultural ones, proxy dictatorships, and continual meddling. Generally "efforts to modernize" have been only done so to benefit the nations and corporations engaged in them. I know you want to shout, "but that's what this is!" but giving free laptops to poor students is hardly the same as building a road to truck your nearly-slave labor to the mines.

Look at their cities. So much poverty and filth. This is a natural a product of teaching people in remote and monetarily poor areas a way of life that only works in the cities.
This section doesn't make any sense.

Access to laptops and technology is NOT the world's problem.
The disasters around the world are also not the "world's problem" but people like being charitable and helping their fellow man.

Such things are cheap and pervasive.
Oh yeah super cheap and pervasive, nary an African can be met who doesn't have their own laptop these days.

Human freedom and liberty are the real seeds of human prosperity, peace and a better environment.
It's a good thing these are super easy problems to fix right? Why bother with non-profit organizations striving to provide educational tools to poor children when we can just skip right to providing human freedom and liberty in the third world.


So you see, now I've taken the bait from the not-troll.


edit: Also I don't think good intentions should be avoided because they might pave a road to hell or something. And this "I think the Internet viewed as a human right is potentially a dangerous one." is much more reasonable than claiming it's a conspiracy to exploit the third world.

This comment was edited on Apr 13, 2011, 23:51.
 
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9. Re: Evening Metaverse Apr 13, 2011, 22:38 LittleMe
 
skyguy wrote on Apr 13, 2011, 22:16:
Internet access is a privilege, not a right. Unless I'm mistaken, courts still regularly prohibit convicted hackers from using the internet, just like they regularly prohibit convicted drunk drivers from driving.

Internet access viewed privilege is also a dangerous one. I'm sure you don't mean literally, though. In a tyrannical society, I can one day see people being provided access to the Internet only if they worship their ruler for one hour every day and after being certified for paying %90 income tax. That also is not the kind of society in which I want to live.

In my opinion, it shouldn't be the prerogative of government in any way, shape or form. Literally. Otherwise, it's a slippery slope to losing the Internet. So in my view, it's should be none of their business what we do or do not do with or on the Internet.

The Internet itself in many ways (but not all) naturally resists control and is an affront to government or planning. Just look at how well the IETF itself has failed to deploy IPv6 (the new Internet protocol). There are many examples of this. The uncontrolled distribution of Music, games and movies are another of course.

 
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8. Re: Evening Metaverse Apr 13, 2011, 22:30 LittleMe
 
Access to spoons, hamburgers or metal screws are not viewed as a human right and yet these are useful things that the market (free or not) provides usually in abundance. In a similar tone, Internet access should not be viewed as a human right. It should be something that the market is allowed to provide unrestricted access to.

If Internet access is decided to be a natural-born human right, then it likely becomes the prerogative of government and the central planning model. We're talking about a product and service here, not truly inalienable god-given rights as outlined in the US Constitution.

Learn the difference between Natural and legal rights. The phrasing used in this article says 'human right' which implies that it may 'be directly provided' by authoritarian control.

Vague wording like as it appears Berners-Lee used here is also used by tyrants for their own ends.

Now if Berners-Lee had specified that web-access should be viewed as a human-right but absolutely not be provided by default from government, then I'd be in favor of that. The distinction is important.

 
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7. Re: Evening Metaverse Apr 13, 2011, 22:23 Silicon Avatar
 
I'm pretty sure I could get along just fine without the internet. A few things would be more inconvenient, but that's about it.

 
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6. Re: Evening Metaverse Apr 13, 2011, 22:16 skyguy
 
Internet access is a privilege, not a right. Unless I'm mistaken, courts still regularly prohibit convicted hackers from using the internet, just like they regularly prohibit convicted drunk drivers from driving.
 
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5. Re: Evening Metaverse Apr 13, 2011, 22:03 LittleMe
 
Sepharo wrote on Apr 13, 2011, 21:57:
It's hard to believe you're not just trolling.

I'm not. I'm a firm believer in the notion that 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions.' In that tone, I think the Internet viewed as a human right is potentially a dangerous one.

Are you saying he's not a part of the educational elite?

ps. it was you who started accusing and making personal attacks. I say you are the troll, not I.

 
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4. Re: Evening Metaverse Apr 13, 2011, 21:57 Sepharo
 
LittleMe wrote on Apr 13, 2011, 21:53:
He's arguing for central planning. He's an elitist. He's using glowy-sounding rhetoric that favors the globalist agenda. He despises 'conspiracy theories' and wants to bring the world's poor under control and influence of the globalists. A laptop is mostly useless to a bushman living off the land. How dare people in the world live in isolation, without being perpetually indebted to the big banks!

The efforts to modernize the third world have brought incredible suffering there. Look at their cities. So much poverty and filth. This is a natural a product of teaching people in remote and monetarily poor areas a way of life that only works in the cities.

Access to laptops and technology is NOT the world's problem. Such things are cheap and pervasive. Human freedom and liberty is the real seeds of human prosperity, peace and a better environment.

It's hard to believe you're not just trolling.
 
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3. Re: Evening Metaverse Apr 13, 2011, 21:55 Sepharo
 
Cutter wrote on Apr 13, 2011, 21:26:
Whis is web access a human right when even essentials like food, clothing and shelter aren't? Go out and do a survey of the homeless and see what'd they value more a place to live or web access.

That's a pretty lookin' strawman you got there.

I'm willing to bet Berners-Lee thinks food and shelter are human rights as well.

Personally I think everyone deserves an education and web access (somewhere not necessarily home) should come along with that being the ultimate facilitator in that process.
 
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2. Re: Evening Metaverse Apr 13, 2011, 21:53 LittleMe
 
He's arguing for central planning. He's an elitist. He's using glowy-sounding rhetoric that favors the globalist agenda. He despises 'conspiracy theories' and wants to bring the world's poor under control and influence of the globalists. A laptop is mostly useless to a bushman living off the land. How dare people in the world live in isolation, without being perpetually indebted to the big banks!

The efforts to modernize the third world have brought incredible suffering there. Look at their cities. So much poverty and filth. This is a natural a product of teaching people in remote and monetarily poor areas a way of life that only works in the cities.

Access to laptops and technology is NOT the world's problem. Such things are cheap and pervasive. Human freedom and liberty are the real seeds of human prosperity, peace and a better environment.
 
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1. Re: Evening Metaverse Apr 13, 2011, 21:26 Cutter
 
Whis is web access a human right when even essentials like food, clothing and shelter aren't? Go out and do a survey of the homeless and see what'd they value more a place to live or web access.

 
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