steam has to be one of the worst subscription services around


"Really? On what planet do you live? Can you sell the car you rented? Or the CDs you burned of NSyncs greatest hits? Sorry, but it's just not that simple. You have no legal right to sell a non-transferable licence."

well, the thing with steam games is that there really isn't a difference between the subscriptions you sign up for with steam and proper games. the bullshit wall of text type things they have on their site is worthless. especially with steamworks retail games, digital subscriptions masquerading as physical objects, if someone lawyered up they probably would be required to print in huge font right on the box that it's a GAME SUBSCRIPTION being sold. hopefully someone will in the near future finally stand up for the consumer's rights on all this bullshit going on with PC games.

This comment was edited on Mar 15, 2011, 01:25.

Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Mar 14, 2011, 23:00:

space captain wrote on Mar 14, 2011, 22:23:
i was being sarcastic.. you cant sell your steam account, no matter what country you live in... except fantasyland, i suppose

btw that place is fucking awesome

Really? My consumer rights let me sell whatever I want. So yes, I can sell it.

Really? On what planet do you live?

Can you sell the car you rented? Or the CDs you burned of NSyncs greatest hits?

Sorry, but it's just not that simple. You have no legal right to sell a non-transferable licence.

I'm not saying it's right or moral or just, but it is certainly law and I doubt there is a country on the planet that would support you and even if there was, Valve is based in the US and under US law they have every right to suspend your account.

There is a fundamental difference between selling a used car and selling software. If I sell a used car, it has degraded in value. It has been used. Software or any digital data doesn't work that way. It doesn't degrade. There's no disadvantage to buying second hand software (especially where there's no physical media involved) so there's no motivation to ever buy "new" software. If you buy 2nd hand software you get the same experience as you would from new, but the content creator gets nothing. Of course, paying people for creating content is considered really old fashioned these days.

space captain wrote on Mar 14, 2011, 22:23:
i was being sarcastic.. you cant sell your steam account, no matter what country you live in... except fantasyland, i suppose

btw that place is fucking awesome

Really? My consumer rights let me sell whatever I want. So yes, I can sell it.

So they gave it back to save a PR mess and it's all okay I guess. I wonder if all the people who never got theirs back will start trying to get media attention.

In any case if Valve ever take my Steamworks games away I'll just torrent them. Nothing immoral about that at all.

Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Mar 14, 2011, 22:10:
Well yes I do. I guess that's because I still live in a country where consumer rights trump those of corps trying to take them away. Shit amazing huh?

i was being sarcastic.. you cant sell your steam account, no matter what country you live in... except fantasyland, i suppose

btw that place is fucking awesome

space captain wrote on Mar 14, 2011, 22:05:
so that means you can sell your steam account because you are so special? wow!

Well yes I do. I guess that's because I still live in a country where consumer rights trump those of corps trying to take them away. Shit amazing huh?

Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Mar 14, 2011, 22:02:
I guess that's too bad for you. For me, neither ToS, EULA's or the belief that digital software is a 'service' is enforceable. Meaning if I buy the software it's mine, I don't own a license.

so that means you can sell your steam account because you are so special? wow!

Kitkoan wrote on Mar 14, 2011, 19:42:
If I remember reading somewhere right, digital software is legally considered a "service" not a "product", and the law doesn't say anything about the re-sale of a "service" so it comes down to the TOS (which says you can't sell it).

I guess that's too bad for you. For me, neither ToS, EULA's or the belief that digital software is a 'service' is enforceable. Meaning if I buy the software it's mine, I don't own a license.

I paid for the shit not them!!!

You paid...for a license.

I have a serious problem with Valve on this one. I have a steam account with quite a few games that I have purchased too adding up to well over $1000.00 If Valve banned me I would pay them a visit and beat the hell out them if they didn’t un-ban my account.

Personally I feel that if I wanted to sell my account that’s my business and fuck Valve if they don’t like it. I paid for the shit not them!!!

Jackplug wrote on Mar 14, 2011, 20:38:
I will never buy games on steam, this just shows how much you can lose just buy losing your account. I rather buy the dvds.

Although I have to say that he didnt actually break any rules, I feel that valve is wrong to ban this guy, for he hasnt done anything illegal, only to speak of what hes thinking of doing.

Except there are many games that use steam as drm, and once you register the game its tied to your steam account. So buying dvds in those cases(example is dow2 games) wont really matter to u I guess.

HOW DARE YOU TRY TO SELL SOMETHING WHICH YOU BOUGHT AND OWN! Don't you realize that poor valve is struggling to survive due to such massive competition from the second hand market?

::sarcasm mode off::

Seriously, a license agreement is yet another way that greedy companies try to exploit the public. Shame on you, Valve.


And to the people who parrot the "Vote with your dollars": Yes, go ahead and try to vote with your dollars. Take a look at almost every software EULA and you'll see that the publisher/developer says the buyer isn't allowed to resell. So forget about playing any games. You can also forget about using almost any other software for that matter.

And what if you don't like the fact that companies are outsourcing all their production to China? Do we simply keep quiet and vote with our dollars in regards to that as well? If so, then we would be clothless; shoeless; void of any electronics of any kind including computers, tvs, stereos, phones, cameras; no more appliances such as stoves, refrigerators, microwaves, etc; we wouldn't own almost anything made out of plastic; no more cookware and silverware thus forcing us to eat with our hands; no cars (many parts to "American" cars are made overseas).

Get used to it, PC games are nearly impossible to sell used nowadays and this will be the last gen for console titles to be transferable.

seems like the right of consumers gets chipped away a little each year. "Fair use of copyrighted material" is scoffed at by the piles of walking shit (aka attorneys) and and now right of second sale is disappearing.

This is what happens when we allow our entire legal system to be controlled by a group that has a vested interest in removing as many consumer rights as possible. Enjoy kids.

Since they gave back his account they need to turn around and re-enabled everyone else account that was terminated for the same reason. His account being $1,800 isn't an excuse for his negligence in reading TOS. It's pretty much common knowledge now that you cannot sell steam accounts....quit buying steam games if you don't agree.

This comment was edited on Mar 14, 2011, 22:04.

And that's why I've never "bought" anything over $10 on Steam. I only pick really cheap shit up on there for convenience's sake.

I don't consider $5-$10 a bad price for an indefinite rental of a game, and that's all Steam is.

So what if he sells his account? Steam made its money, fudge them. This is no different than EA banning that guy from playing their games. I love how most of you are not only bending over and taking this but begging for it sans lube. No wonder these companies continue to treat customers like trash.

I will never buy games on steam, this just shows how much you can lose just buy losing your account. I rather buy the dvds.

Although I have to say that he didnt actually break any rules, I feel that valve is wrong to ban this guy, for he hasnt done anything illegal, only to speak of what hes thinking of doing.

This user cried a lot, his account is already re enabled...

Advice to the account holders, check steam subscriber agreement before going around advertising doing something thats clearly against the agreement. If you do not care to read the agreement then don't be suprised if action is taken against u as a result. Sure, in the end he did not sell the account, and in the end valve re enabled his account. Lesson learned.

Pankin wrote on Mar 14, 2011, 19:56:

Tanto Edge wrote on Mar 14, 2011, 19:38:
That was nice of Valve (giving back axs), but it's troubling that so many people are so willing to give up the ability to resell their purchases.
Arguing that a company holds rights to something is fine, but despite licensing, terms of agreement, etc, why is it that so many people accept this inability to resell?
You can find all sorts of collections upon eBay, of pc games, atari and games, dreamcast, etc.
Why shouldn't we be able to resell software that we purchase?

Does the loss of the ability to resell software mean as much if you've never done it? I say no. I've never resold any software I've ever bought.

Isn't that the philosophical question behind all human rights?

Buyer beware imo.

The guy broke the TOS and he was lucky to have his account re-enabled. Don't like the terms and conditions, don't buy.

Increasingly stringent restrictions on what you can do with what you buy aren't going to change unless people vote with their wallets.