eRe4s3r wrote on Jan 19, 2011, 20:27:
-overtime rundown-

Thanks.

To me that doesn't sound like a salary really. Just a wage and normal work schedule.

The only thing I know offhand about our schedule where I work is, you should be there between 8am-5pm and generally an hour or so for lunch hopefully taken around noon.

We follow an agile development paradigm so luckily I get to decided (from a pool) what I want to work on and make my own estimates of how long it's going to take. If I estimate my 76hrs (usually a 2 week sprint) and it actually takes me 90hrs that's my fault for poor estimation. Personal guilt drives me to come in and work extra, but also coming in on Monday and saying "Sorry, I just couldn't finish it, we're going to have to carry it over to the next sprint" is also an option.

Interesting section here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary#Salaries_in_the_U.S.

Actually thats an awesome question....

I can only tell you how it works at the 1 company i know (and know how it works ;p)

1) Yes, you MUST work each workday 8 hours, for a month (first to last day of a month, doesn't matter how long month is or how the workdays fall, wage is ALWAYS a constant)
2) Actually it gets complicated now, lunch time is SUBTRACTED from that.
3) So overtime starts when you are longer than 8h 30m at work. And is limited to 10h 30m (2hrs per day)
4) They actually never allow more than 2 hours overtime per day, they have electronically blocked more than that when you check out.
5) Most companies have work hours for a reason. Mostly to do with backups, IT etc. - in the company i talk about you get thrown out after 10pm by security personal in any case. The risk is too high that you are doing something fishy after all. When nobody is around companies get paranoid.
6) Also you can start anywhere from 6 to 9AM - as long as you have 8h 30m at the end of the day. (but naturally, you will miss out on "coffee breaks" and stuff if you come in too late ;p)

Also lunch time is regulated but can be taken anywhere between 12 and 14 o'clock As long as you take one. Also theres some legal loopholes, if you only work 6 hours a day you can "skip" lunch time (so you work 6 hours and subtract 2 overtime hours)

Overtime is capped at 80 hours. And added as vacation on top for your yearly vacation. This means you can "work out" 2 weeks of extra vacation at most. Also, at the end of the year your overtime vacation HAS to be taken. You are NOT allowed to take overtime over in the next "year".

Thats how it is where i know how it is. Your mileage may vary greatly from this.

Sepharo wrote on Jan 19, 2011, 18:34:
I wonder if the salaried + overtime guys are actually "salaried".

Maybe it's just you must work 40 hours a week and your "salary" is your hourly wage over the days you have to work.

Can you leave early? Can you take a 2 hour lunch without needing to keep track of it somewhere? I don't have overtime because there's not really a time to go over. Yes, business hours are 8-5 and that's 40 hours a week but there aren't chains on the doors.

How do they determine the overtime rate anyway? Divide your salary by 365(-weekends) and then by 8?

How do you determine when to start working overtime? Do you need permission? Or do you just sit at your desk an extra 2 hours everyday and rake in the cash?

In Europe at least the salary is monthly, you have to enter work at a certain hour and leave after a certain hour. If you stay working late due to whatever reason and it's not a voluntary decision, you get paid extra or get extra vacation days. Overtime rate is often fixed by law.

Creston wrote on Jan 19, 2011, 13:06:
It's all to do with your job, the company, and--again--how well you NEGOTIATE.

What are you, a fucking banker? Negotiate. LOL.

I wonder if the salaried + overtime guys are actually "salaried".

Maybe it's just you must work 40 hours a week and your "salary" is your hourly wage over the days you have to work.

Can you leave early? Can you take a 2 hour lunch without needing to keep track of it somewhere? I don't have overtime because there's not really a time to go over. Yes, business hours are 8-5 and that's 40 hours a week but there aren't chains on the doors.

How do they determine the overtime rate anyway? Divide your salary by 365(-weekends) and then by 8?

How do you determine when to start working overtime? Do you need permission? Or do you just sit at your desk an extra 2 hours everyday and rake in the cash?

StingingVelvet wrote on Jan 19, 2011, 16:35:

ASeven wrote on Jan 19, 2011, 15:06:
Honestly, I hope they do like the Iron Lore devs, the ones of Titan Quest fame, who all got banded together and went indie, each and every single one of them, and are now making Grim Dawn.

How awesome would it be to see them united again but fully indie and releasing a game that rivaled PGR for the PC and consoles?

That's a jump that's probably easier to make for a PC development company than a console one. That's just me guessing though.

I would venture that's true, but truth be told nothing would stop them of making it for consoles once it brought in enough money from the PC version, or even release the versions simultaneously since they are veterans in knowing what to do to release for consoles.

ASeven wrote on Jan 19, 2011, 15:06:
Honestly, I hope they do like the Iron Lore devs, the ones of Titan Quest fame, who all got banded together and went indie, each and every single one of them, and are now making Grim Dawn.

How awesome would it be to see them united again but fully indie and releasing a game that rivaled PGR for the PC and consoles?

That's a jump that's probably easier to make for a PC development company than a console one. That's just me guessing though.

The 360 version was actually $69.99 when it launched here in Canada. Then Wallmart had it on sale for $39.99 and at the same time Activision was offering the $20 rebate, to make the game cost $19.99.

spindoctor wrote on Jan 19, 2011, 15:00:
I'm pretty sure Blur was 40$ at release. Price history for the game seems to confirm that too...

http://www.steamgamesales.com/view-history.php?id=1913

How are you guys saying it was a 60$ game?

On consoles, at release, I believe it was $60.

Honestly, I hope they do like the Iron Lore devs, the ones of Titan Quest fame, who all got banded together and went indie, each and every single one of them, and are now making Grim Dawn.

How awesome would it be to see them united again but fully indie and releasing a game that rivaled PGR for the PC and consoles?

I'm pretty sure Blur was 40$ at release. Price history for the game seems to confirm that too...

http://www.steamgamesales.com/view-history.php?id=1913

How are you guys saying it was a 60$ game?

End of an Era. Metropolis Street Racer was kind of mind blowing and Project Gotham kept being so awesome. I can see why microsoft put it's focus on Forza, which is cool, but PGR had soul. I especially loved the floaty handling in Project Gotham 2. Sweet unlocks, and a unique approach to gameplay/graphics/course design.

Not to mention how awesome is Geometry War's 2? Nothing beats that highscore of my mate's that took me a year to destroy in deadline. Gives me shivers just thinking about it.

I'm just going to assume that this team has had some serious brain drain anyway, as in people have left, and is now but an empty shell of it's former self and therefore needs to be put down.

Beamer wrote on Jan 19, 2011, 11:56:
q[
Your key grips in Hollywood getting screamed at by Christian Bale earn nothing.

So you work much in the film industry then? While he dose not get paid like Christian Bale, I bet he get well paid on a per-day rate and also grip work in not some amazing super fun job, it's hard work on long days.

You grabbing at straws .... You making a straw man?

Tumbler wrote on Jan 19, 2011, 13:42:
Even at $40 the game was overpriced. I would have bought it at $20, maybe even $30, but above that it wasn't worth it.

While Activision was offering the $20 rebate Wallmart also had the game on sale for $40, so if you could combine that with the coupon you could get the game for $20. This was for the Xbox. I've managed to score some copies for $20, and gave it to friends. Had a blast with it online. It was like Modern Warfare MP on 4 wheels.

nin wrote on Jan 19, 2011, 11:31:

They do not offer overtime to salaried employees. Employment is conditioned on you getting your work done. If your work takes you longer then so be it. The higher up you get the more your pay is but the greater your responsibility and more important your work, therefore the longer it's likely to take you.

Go ask the HR departments of any Fortune 500 company how they pay their managers if they work longer than 40 hours.

You are incorrect. As I work for one of those companies as salary, yet I get OT.

Yeah, me too...I have worked for two different Fortune 500 companies, one of them in the top 100, and both paid managers and executives for either overtime hours or services provided not specifically detailed in their contracts.

Example: As a store manager that was without an assistant manager temporarily, I did not actually work more hours, but the job duties increased until the position was filled, as such the company I worked for paid me an extra amount for the two weeks it took HR to provide me with a candidate for the position that I was willing to bring on to my staff.

Its just a shame that fair situations like that are the exception and not the rule.

Isn't Activision sets the prices of games they publish?
I think even they realized the pricing was screwed up and offered that $20 rebate a week or two after release date.

Even at $40 the game was overpriced. I would have bought it at $20, maybe even $30, but above that it wasn't worth it. Not for an online racing game. The SP side was fairly bad, it seemed to be more of a way to grind your way to better cars that you can use in MP.

The MP component of the game was fantastic in my opinion, but they tried to price it like it had a equally awesome SP side.

It needed to be priced like a DLC game that was only 1/2 what you'd normally get for $60. Don't really care if Bizarre wanted this and Activision didn't and so it's really activisions fault, it's a package deal, Bizarre + Activision didn't work for this game. You gotta find a way that that formula does work. If that means designing a game that will sell for $60 rather than the game you want to design then so be it.

Tumbler wrote on Jan 19, 2011, 12:17:

Was one of my favorite games as well, but I got it for $1. I was going to buy it at retail (best buy) when it looked like the sale price was $20 (I think?) but turned out the sale price was $39.99 which I felt was too much.

The game was priced too high imo.
Sad.

I thought it was worth the $60 (I did get it for XBox though). Of course one of my favorite games is Wipeout, so when this fast paced and colorful combat racer was released I was very pleased with their treatment of the genre.

I'm in UK, we... Kind of get overtime or time off in leu (TOIL).

It depends though, on industry, seniority, pay, sector, small biz vs corporate...

In general though people either get OT/TOIL or get pay that pretty much makes up for "unpaid" OT. People who don't get paid for the OT one way or the other are probably career-building, trying to catch up for being poor (or overly fussy with paperwork etc) at their job or yes, simply being done over by their employers.

It's often not obvious which of the above you fall into though, most people don't really have any objective info for what would be fair pay for them and people rationalise and warp reality to make sure they fit into the latter category regardless of what the facts say.

Insert some apologist comment about media industries being somehow special and labors of love so they are exempt from labor laws.

And for the record I've worked both in the US and Canada, I was always paid overtime when salaried. I've only worked inside one "media" industry(television) when I was in college intern'ing but the full timers there were union, salaried and paid reasonable overtime compensation.

Creston wrote on Jan 19, 2011, 11:22:

Beamer wrote on Jan 19, 2011, 10:42:

or the non-paid overtime

NO INDUSTRY HAS PAID OVERTIME FOR SALARIED WORKERS!



Christ, why is it only this board seems to think otherwise?
I work 60 hours a week, minimum, for my base salary. I don't get paid extra for those other 20 hours.

Then you need to learn how to fucking negotiate. I get paid for every hour that I work over 40. My CPA brother in law gets time off on a 1:1 basis for every hour worked over 40. The nurse I know at church gets paid for all her overtime.

YOUR situation does not equate to the rest of the world.

That said, the game industry never getting paid for all their work is nothing new. It's filled with morons who just bend over and take it, after which they whine about it and expect sympathy.

Creston

This. Evey job I've worked at in the USA, I either get paid overtime (time and a half, so for 40 hrs/wk i get paid 20/hr, anytime over that is 30/hr.) Or I get compensation time - every hour overtime i do, I get it back in vacation time. A lot of it is negotiation, and a lot of it is pointing at that board in the break room that basically says "slave labor is illegal in the USA."