No doubt typed on a windows machine. You can use something else but you choose MS. So why don't you shut your pie hole.

ASeven wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 08:49:
MS knows their bread and butter is Windows sales alone, if they start losing much more Windows market share they may get into trouble.

I keep seeing people say this, and it's simply wrong. Windows sales account for a nice chunk of MS's revenue, but it's hardly their only bread winner. SQL, Exchange, Office, Windows Server et al make tons of money.

And again, MS doesn't give a damn about sales of Windows to "gamers." The amount of copies sold to gamers isn't even a rounding error for them. It's probably like 0.002% or something.

All their big money is in the corporate market, and it comes from licensing. A company with 10,000 desktops that wishes to use Exchange and Windows Server basically has to buy 10,000 licenses for both Exchange AND Server. (They'll buy a site license, but even those go up in price the bigger you are.)

Most of their Windows sales come from OEMs, but since those are rarely game machines, it's hard to consider it as "sales to gamers."

Not defending MS here, they're a giant piece of shit (although the shitty quality of their products have kept me in well-paid jobs over the past 17 years), but this idea that they HAVE to sell copies of Windows or keel over is just not true.

Anyways, fuck Microsoft and their by now monthly bleating on how they're going to push PC Gaming. Just shut your fucking cakehole, MS. The only thing that ever spews out is horseshit. Sadly it's never cake.

Creston

What? Seriously? They are going to kill their Shitbox and GFWL for good when W8 comes out?
Hallelujah!

Random angry comment!

Verno wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 16:18:
Dude come on, he was pretty reasonable, you're overreacting a bit. "M$" is like some grade schooler slashdot stuff and has been tired for a long time.

Yeah a bit. I just find it so insignificant that I was just annoyed it gained the attention of two people now. It's just ingrained in my head to refer to them like that.

Anywho, Microsoft (better?) isn't worth getting that worked up over, so y'all have a Merry Xmas too.

I think it's good to deconstruct what's been done wrong by MS but at the same time it'd be a bit more constructive to discuss what they could be doing better.

What they need to do is stop using business practices that screw anyone who doesn't own a 360. It's one thing to attract customers by providing a superior product. It's another thing to attract customers by leaving them no other choice. Guess which philosophy MS follows?

Elessar wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 13:49:

Tim wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 12:31:
MS (dollar not required in 2010)

This seems to be the tone of your posts in general, quite honestly you need to get over yourself.

I'm sorry that my cynicism of M$ bothers you, but decades of experience with them has evoked that feeling from me. Play nice all you want, but at the end of the day they've yet to come through for gamers after several empty statements stating that they intend to. Therefore, I've adopted the "I'll believe it when I see it mentality". Until then, I don't think they're capable of understanding what gaming needs and will remain skeptical.

Dude come on, he was pretty reasonable, you're overreacting a bit. "M$" is like some grade schooler slashdot stuff and has been tired for a long time. Microsoft isn't exactly the evil empire anymore, they're getting their asses kicked all over the map. Hell they aren't even close to winning the console wars and people seem to be switching to anything Apple makes in droves. I get where you're coming from but he wasn't being Captain Redmond or something.

I'm not saying people should forgive and forget over some puffball PR quote but they would be a powerful ally if they stopped fucking around and took the platform seriously for a change. If they hired someone reputable from say Telltale Games or Valve to revamp their GFWL division and gave it a new name because the old one is totally fucked no matter what then I would give them a chance.

wtf_man wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 11:34:

Tim wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 10:40:

Verno wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 10:35:
Convince Rockstar to port Red Dead Redemption and all is forgiven. Gamers have short memories despite their claims otherwise

Now THATs the kind of thing i'd like to see - I don't see the point in MS maintaining exclusivity between 360 <-> PC. Obviously they're different markets.

You guys realize that you are asking for another console port, right?
You realise it would probably be a shitty port like GTAIV, right?

Hey, a shitty port is better than no game at all. Frankly, now that my 4 year old XBox fried and I can't play RDR at all, I'd prefer to play that shitty port.

Optional nickname wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 14:09:
Welcome Windows 8 !

Microsoft Proudly Presents:
the New Windows 8, giving gamers the ultimate platform, for which Windows 1.0 Windows 2.0 Windows 3.0 Windows 3.11 Windows NT, Windows 95 (Hey it's me, Pitfall , boxed, in every brick and mortar store in North America!) , Windows 95 OSR2, Windows 98, Windows Millenium, Windows XP, Windows 7, haven't been able to provide, and Windows 9 and 10 will still not do!

You forgot Windows 98 SE and Vista....

Elessar wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 13:49:

Tim wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 12:31:
MS (dollar not required in 2010)

This seems to be the tone of your posts in general, quite honestly you need to get over yourself.

I'm sorry that my cynicism of M$ bothers you, but decades of experience with them has evoked that feeling from me. Play nice all you want, but at the end of the day they've yet to come through for gamers after several empty statements stating that they intend to. Therefore, I've adopted the "I'll believe it when I see it mentality". Until then, I don't think they're capable of understanding what gaming needs and will remain skeptical.

and I suppose you're turning a blind eye to everything to do with the 360 and Live, because you know.. that doesn't count when you're trolling right?

Welcome Windows 8 !

Microsoft Proudly Presents:
the New Windows 8, giving gamers the ultimate platform, for which Windows 1.0 Windows 2.0 Windows 3.0 Windows 3.11 Windows NT, Windows 95 (Hey it's me, Pitfall , boxed, in every brick and mortar store in North America!) , Windows 95 OSR2, Windows 98, Windows Millenium, Windows XP, Windows 7, haven't been able to provide, and Windows 9 and 10 will still not do!

Tim wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 12:31:
MS (dollar not required in 2010)

This seems to be the tone of your posts in general, quite honestly you need to get over yourself.

I'm sorry that my cynicism of M$ bothers you, but decades of experience with them has evoked that feeling from me. Play nice all you want, but at the end of the day they've yet to come through for gamers after several empty statements stating that they intend to. Therefore, I've adopted the "I'll believe it when I see it mentality". Until then, I don't think they're capable of understanding what gaming needs and will remain skeptical.

Tim wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 12:31:
Perhaps i'm too positive but it's really easy to shout "yer shit and yas always will be!"

Merry Xmas, i'm off on my holidays now

Let me put it this way, MS has said at least once a month, for the past year that they are rededicating themselves really this time now to PC gamers. And have they actually shown anything for it yet? Besides threatening to sue people for trying to get kinect to work on PC? (and yes I know they later changed their minds and said well maybe we won't sue yet, AFTER all the bad press and the driver coming out within a week).

Elessar wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 11:35:

Tim wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 10:35:

Elessar wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 09:56:
Question. What's stopping you from doing it now (or before for that matter)? What's so imperative about Windows 8, that you can't make this push with Windows 7?

Their statement is an absolute joke.

Again, not defending them but how so? Surely a major platform release represents the opportunity to implement deep seated changes?

It's amusing that they're damned either way - a new driver model in Vista caused havoc (due to no small part to people like nVidia) no doubt but in the long run turned out to be a major boon for the both DX and users alike. Nothing amuses me more than users who want change but er.. don't want anything to change

We don't know what'll be in 8, or what (more specifically) will or won't be there to extend gaming support. Fundamentally this means that the above statement from an "unknown source" makes jumping to conclusions rather short sighted.. If the assumption is that MS doing anything bad ever means they're always going to do more bad things and nothing else... the mind boggles.

Short sighted, are you kidding me? You must not have experience with M$ and their lack of innovation over the years, otherwise you couldn't possibly believe that. They've had ample opportunity, to this point, to implement this awesome gaming technology they're supposedly coming out with. They need yet another operating system iteration as a catalyst for this? I don't think so.

Secondly, I can't imagine that a package of this new gaming tech could not be created to install onto their latest OS. Like others mentioned prior, I believe they'll go the DX10, they're going to use it to force gamers to upgrade to Win 8. For no reason other than to make money.

I welcome the opportunity for M$ to surprise me, but there's no way I'm letting them get my hopes up in regards to gaming. They've simply failed far too many times before.

Oh I don't doubt they've managerial motivation to push you onto the next OS, what I'm asking is that do you have surety there won't be technological reasons too, based on what we *actually* know right now? Sounds like a lot of assumptions to me.. Whilst i'd never argue (for one moment) that MS (dollar not required in 2010) haven't been mired in layers of bad management decisions over the years (and infighting) it's hard to keep kicking them when they're doing quite a lot right these days. At least from my perspective Win7 is great, WP7 is darn solid (albeit in it's formative days) and the 360 powers on (with kinect). That's all current MS, which seems to me to have shifted gears somewhat in recent years having internally shaken itself up (I think Vista did a lot of structural good to the company).

You hit the nail on the head - you 'don't think so' - whereas I'm saying 'we don't know'. Personally I think that's more balanced given a complete lack of information. I'll agree to disagree.

As for DX10 - tackled previously - and to reiterate I don't really believe it was just about pushing the new Windows (and again, Halo 2 totally was, just like Crysis 'dx10') because there were valid technical reasons why XP wasn't a good platform to move DX forward.

And just to bang it home - I really don't believe MS has got gaming right on the PC (see previous posts). MS biggest enemy is themselves - I think they're waking up to it and trying to change. I hope so in fact. They're strategy on PC gaming, development (.NET WPF Direct2D Win32), tablets and many other things lakes unified cohesion for sure. Perhaps i'm too positive but it's really easy to shout "yer shit and yas always will be!"

Merry Xmas, i'm off on my holidays now

wtf_man wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 11:34:

I'm still pissed I can't turn on AA. What kind of fucking port is it, when you can't invoke a basic feature in a 3D card that has been around for more than a decade?

If we have to suffer with console ports... at least make all the regular video settings work... the controls responsive for a keyboard and mouse... a UI that doesn't look like it was designed by the Sonic the Hedgehog team... and the ability to turn off stupid console-like features (like floating damage numbers).

I hear all that and it totally makes sense(except the part about AA) but at the same time RDR is a damned good game begging for a PC version.

Tim wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 10:35:

Elessar wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 09:56:
Question. What's stopping you from doing it now (or before for that matter)? What's so imperative about Windows 8, that you can't make this push with Windows 7?

Their statement is an absolute joke.

Again, not defending them but how so? Surely a major platform release represents the opportunity to implement deep seated changes?

It's amusing that they're damned either way - a new driver model in Vista caused havoc (due to no small part to people like nVidia) no doubt but in the long run turned out to be a major boon for the both DX and users alike. Nothing amuses me more than users who want change but er.. don't want anything to change

We don't know what'll be in 8, or what (more specifically) will or won't be there to extend gaming support. Fundamentally this means that the above statement from an "unknown source" makes jumping to conclusions rather short sighted.. If the assumption is that MS doing anything bad ever means they're always going to do more bad things and nothing else... the mind boggles.

Short sighted, are you kidding me? You must not have experience with M$ and their lack of innovation over the years, otherwise you couldn't possibly believe that. They've had ample opportunity, to this point, to implement this awesome gaming technology they're supposedly coming out with. They need yet another operating system iteration as a catalyst for this? I don't think so.

Secondly, I can't imagine that a package of this new gaming tech could not be created to install onto their latest OS. Like others mentioned prior, I believe they'll go the DX10, they're going to use it to force gamers to upgrade to Win 8. For no reason other than to make money.

I welcome the opportunity for M$ to surprise me, but there's no way I'm letting them get my hopes up in regards to gaming. They've simply failed far too many times before.

Tim wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 10:40:

Verno wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 10:35:
Convince Rockstar to port Red Dead Redemption and all is forgiven. Gamers have short memories despite their claims otherwise

Now THATs the kind of thing i'd like to see - I don't see the point in MS maintaining exclusivity between 360 <-> PC. Obviously they're different markets.

You guys realize that you are asking for another console port, right?
You realise it would probably be a shitty port like GTAIV, right?

I recently bought GTAIV... and since it was all patched up it was too bad, but the horror stories of when it first was released for the PC... man!

I'm still pissed I can't turn on AA. What kind of fucking port is it, when you can't invoke a basic feature in a 3D card that has been around for more than a decade?

If we have to suffer with console ports... at least make all the regular video settings work... the controls responsive for a keyboard and mouse... a UI that doesn't look like it was designed by the Sonic the Hedgehog team... and the ability to turn off stupid console-like features (like floating damage numbers).

Verno wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 10:35:
Convince Rockstar to port Red Dead Redemption and all is forgiven. Gamers have short memories despite their claims otherwise

Now THATs the kind of thing i'd like to see - I don't see the point in MS maintaining exclusivity between 360 <-> PC. Obviously they're different markets.

Convince Rockstar to port Red Dead Redemption and all is forgiven. Gamers have short memories despite their claims otherwise

Elessar wrote on Dec 23, 2010, 09:56:
Question. What's stopping you from doing it now (or before for that matter)? What's so imperative about Windows 8, that you can't make this push with Windows 7?

Their statement is an absolute joke.

Again, not defending them but how so? Surely a major platform release represents the opportunity to implement deep seated changes?

It's amusing that they're damned either way - a new driver model in Vista caused havoc (due to no small part to people like nVidia) no doubt but in the long run turned out to be a major boon for the both DX and users alike. Nothing amuses me more than users who want change but er.. don't want anything to change

We don't know what'll be in 8, or what (more specifically) will or won't be there to extend gaming support. Fundamentally this means that the above statement from an "unknown source" makes jumping to conclusions rather short sighted.. If the assumption is that MS doing anything bad ever means they're always going to do more bad things and nothing else... the mind boggles.