Amnesia Postmortem

Creating Amnesia on IGN talks with Thomas Grip of Frictional Games about Amnesia: The Dark Descent, the well-received survival/horror game from the creators of the Penumbra series. Some of the content will be spoilers for those who have not played the game, but the conversation concludes with word from Grip on the company's future plans: "It's in the early phases still and we're trying to go new ways... For example, we're checking out other platforms. Nothing's been decided yet, we have to check out how everything works. We don't have any experience with putting a game on Xbox for example, but we're going to check that out and see what platforms we can release our game for next. We're hoping for expanding."
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31.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Dec 2, 2010, 08:26
31.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Dec 2, 2010, 08:26
Dec 2, 2010, 08:26
 
All you gotta say is, "I Verno, was needlessly overcomplicating a common gamepad control scheme. While it will never approach the precision of a mouse and keyboard it is totally possible and nearly the same."

I wouldn't say that because I don't believe it to be true, just trying to acknowledge others views I still do not believe Amnesia would work on consoles nor do I have any desire to see it there. I'm sure anything is possible though so using the word "impossible" earlier was wrong.

This comment was edited on Dec 2, 2010, 08:36.
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30.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Dec 1, 2010, 23:17
30.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Dec 1, 2010, 23:17
Dec 1, 2010, 23:17
 
Besides thats not how most things get ported. They get changed and the PC platform suffers as a result.

If Frictional is only talking about porting Amnesia to consoles, I don't really mind. The console ports will have no effect whatsoever on the PC version. However, if they're thinking of making Amnesia 2 a multiplatform title, that's bad. You know they'll design it for the lowest common denominator and PC will get screwed as a result.
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29.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Dec 1, 2010, 18:09
29.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Dec 1, 2010, 18:09
Dec 1, 2010, 18:09
 
Eldaron Imotholin wrote on Dec 1, 2010, 17:46:
"Nearly the same" my glorious balls!

The "Nearly the same" was in reference to the mechanic (camera/grab) itself, not a gamepad.

Bad sentence structure on my part and "I'm Dutch!" on your part.

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28.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Dec 1, 2010, 17:46
28.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Dec 1, 2010, 17:46
Dec 1, 2010, 17:46
 
"Nearly the same" my glorious balls!

Just had to chime in. Controllers suck thát bad, indeed. Except for games like God of War and Darksiders.

This comment was edited on Dec 2, 2010, 09:25.
Where are the adults?
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27.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Dec 1, 2010, 17:44
27.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Dec 1, 2010, 17:44
Dec 1, 2010, 17:44
 
Verno wrote on Dec 1, 2010, 12:32:

I think you are still confused. The grab mode is the same control as the look mode both on PC and on Console. You surrender the camera control while in grab mode on PC as well.

Yeah I'm not really understanding what you're getting at

Your comment implied that you don't surrender the camera control on PC Amnesia when grabbing... But you do.

Once you click on that door your view is locked and the mouse now controls your interaction with the door not the camera.

So fair enough, if there is some great way of implementing this that I haven't thought of or don't understand then I retract my earlier statement.

All you gotta say is, "I Verno, was needlessly overcomplicating a common gamepad control scheme. While it will never approach the precision of a mouse and keyboard it is totally possible and nearly the same."
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26.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Dec 1, 2010, 12:32
26.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Dec 1, 2010, 12:32
Dec 1, 2010, 12:32
 

I think you are still confused. The grab mode is the same control as the look mode both on PC and on Console. You surrender the camera control while in grab mode on PC as well.

Yeah I'm not really understanding what you're getting at, I think it's one of those things I would need to actually do. So fair enough, if there is some great way of implementing this that I haven't thought of or don't understand then I retract my earlier statement.
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25.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Dec 1, 2010, 12:18
25.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Dec 1, 2010, 12:18
Dec 1, 2010, 12:18
 
Verno wrote on Dec 1, 2010, 07:08:
on the console you surrender your camera control while in "grab" mode and are left with the analog stick's "precision" at best.

I think you are still confused. The grab mode is the same control as the look mode both on PC and on Console. You surrender the camera control while in grab mode on PC as well.

I'm well aware of the shittiness that comes with porting to console and being forced to work with a gamepad. It is certainly not something I want or support.

Overcomplicating:

How exactly would you open doors and pick up items then? You need both sticks for movement and camera control which removes an analog control needed for manipulating the environment at various speeds which is important in the game.

Using a controller you would need the left stick for movement and the right stick for camera control. That leaves you minus one analog control needed for item and environment manipulation as Amnesia uses a unique method of doing so that's more akin to a mouse pointer. The only way to do what you're saying would be to use the dpad for movement which would be hilariously awkward at best. So yes, realistically it's impossible without changing Amnesia.

This isn't an opinion piece, it's basic math. You need 2 analog controls for camera and movement on the consoles. The PC uses a combined control scheme using buttons and the mouse. The console controller can't duplicate that, it would require the sacrifice of an analog control used for either movement or camera in order to use it for the stuff Amnesia does.

Now I'm sure someone is going to come along and make some silly argument for holding down 3 buttons, both sticks and hitting start

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24.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Dec 1, 2010, 07:08
24.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Dec 1, 2010, 07:08
Dec 1, 2010, 07:08
 
I think we have different definitions of working then Sepharo. I don't see how it's "overcomplicating" anything to lay out why a control schema wouldn't work on a platform and I still disagree that it would even function as you guys seem to think it would. On the PC you can make your movements as fast and precise as you need to, on the console you surrender your camera control while in "grab" mode and are left with the analog stick's "precision" at best.

Besides thats not how most things get ported. They get changed and the PC platform suffers as a result.
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23.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Dec 1, 2010, 01:54
23.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Dec 1, 2010, 01:54
Dec 1, 2010, 01:54
 
Jerykk wrote on Nov 30, 2010, 23:37:
Could Amnesia work with a gamepad? Sure, much the same way shooters "work" with gamepads. Yes, you can still technically play the game but M&KB offer a much better experience.

Obviously.

Just seemed like Verno was way over complicating how a control scheme for Amnesia would work on a gamepad. It's certainly not impossible and nor is it new either, nearly the same scheme used in Oblivion on 360 in "grab" mode.
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22.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Nov 30, 2010, 23:37
22.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Nov 30, 2010, 23:37
Nov 30, 2010, 23:37
 
Well, controlling like dogshit is what I personally thought Amnesia already did, people are open to debate that and I'm fine with it because it's a simple opinion, but I really fail to see how holding down a trigger to grab a door and pulling back on one control stick is any different than holding down a mouse button and pulling back on it.

It's really not that hard to understand. A mouse is inherently faster and more precise than an analog stick. Try navigating your desktop use a gamepad. You won't have fun. The controls in Amnesia were perfectly intuitive with a mouse. Pull the mouse down to pull an object in the game, push the mouse up to push an object in the game. Simple stuff.

Could Amnesia work with a gamepad? Sure, much the same way shooters "work" with gamepads. Yes, you can still technically play the game but M&KB offer a much better experience.
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21.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Nov 30, 2010, 19:11
21.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Nov 30, 2010, 19:11
Nov 30, 2010, 19:11
 
I don't really agree on it being that easy but maybe it's just my opinion. I don't see the analog sticks having the speed and precious required to quickly manipulate objects in the environment while also retaining the same level of fine tune control over the camera itself which requires a looser sensitivity.

That aside, I don't think they would bother with that approach anyways. I think what's infinitely more likely is that Amnesia itself would be adjusted to accommodate the controller as that's far easier to do. Button opens door, button picks up object, button throws object. Would it singlehandedly ruin the entire game? No but I think that they wouldn't stop making adjustments to accommodate the console market just at the control scheme.
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20.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Nov 30, 2010, 17:59
20.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Nov 30, 2010, 17:59
Nov 30, 2010, 17:59
 
Have you played Amnesia or are you just rushing to disagree for the sake of doing so?

Like I said, it was an honest question, not trying to be a jerk.

You need 2 analog controls for camera and movement on the consoles.

More accurately, you need two hands. But you do on the PC, too.


Amnesia doesn't just do that though, it also requires you to use an analog axis to interact with things like doors(to open them slowly or swing them shut) or picking up and throwing objects.

But it uses the mouse to do it. The same exact input device used for camera control.
So why couldn't the analog stick that functions as camera control be used?


Now I'm sure someone is going to come along and make some silly argument for holding down 3 buttons, both sticks and hitting start but no one is going to play a game that controls like total dogshit so let's be realistic here.

Well, controlling like dogshit is what I personally thought Amnesia already did, people are open to debate that and I'm fine with it because it's a simple opinion, but I really fail to see how holding down a trigger to grab a door and pulling back on one control stick is any different than holding down a mouse button and pulling back on it. Or clicking a stick in and pushing back. Whatever.


Not trying to be a jerk, I honestly have no clue why this sounds any different.
19.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Nov 30, 2010, 17:41
19.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Nov 30, 2010, 17:41
Nov 30, 2010, 17:41
 
I'm going to have to agree with Beamer here.

Though you wrote up 3 paragraphs about how it's not possible I still don't see why not.

Left stick moves the player (WASD), Right stick looks around (mouse), hold down a trigger (left click) and move the right stick to manipulate the held object.

Just like the mouse does double duty for view and item manipulation on PC the right stick would do the same on console.

Am I way off here or something?

edit: Actually the usual move and look sticks may be reversed, don't really play any first person console games.
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18.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Nov 30, 2010, 16:22
18.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Nov 30, 2010, 16:22
Nov 30, 2010, 16:22
 
I don't get it.

The left stick does what the mouse does. The right stick does what the keyboard does. What's missing?

Have you played Amnesia or are you just rushing to disagree for the sake of doing so? Using a controller you would need the left stick for movement and the right stick for camera control. That leaves you minus one analog control needed for item and environment manipulation as Amnesia uses a unique method of doing so that's more akin to a mouse pointer. The only way to do what you're saying would be to use the dpad for movement which would be hilariously awkward at best. So yes, realistically it's impossible without changing Amnesia. No one is saying Amnesia couldn't be changed but you would need to dumb it down to accommodate controllers. My earlier post explained how and why to someone already but I am rehashing it again for you.

This isn't an opinion piece, it's basic math. You need 2 analog controls for camera and movement on the consoles. The PC uses a combined control scheme using buttons and the mouse. The console controller can't duplicate that, it would require the sacrifice of an analog control used for either movement or camera in order to use it for the stuff Amnesia does. In most survival horror games you use a button to manipulate the environment, Amnesia doesn't just do that though, it also requires you to use an analog axis to interact with things like doors(to open them slowly or swing them shut) or picking up and throwing objects.

Now I'm sure someone is going to come along and make some silly argument for holding down 3 buttons, both sticks and hitting start but no one is going to play a game that controls like total dogshit so let's be realistic here. Amnesia would have to be changed and that change will invariably be perceived in dumbing down by the PC community and in this case they would be right because you would have to remove depth from a gameplay feature. That's just one example too, I'm sure there are others.

This comment was edited on Nov 30, 2010, 16:30.
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17.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Nov 30, 2010, 16:08
17.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Nov 30, 2010, 16:08
Nov 30, 2010, 16:08
 
How exactly would you open doors and pick up items then? You need both sticks for movement and camera control which removes an analog control needed for manipulating the environment at various speeds which is important in the game.

I don't get it.

The left stick does what the mouse does. The right stick does what the keyboard does. What's missing? Honest question, as it seems to me that anything you can do with the mouse and keyboard you can do with the analog stick, just less quickly and/or precisely. Precision doesn't seem to play a role here, and you're claiming not that it's too slow but that it's impossible.

Frankly I doubt Amnesia would do well on the console platform anyway, survival horror games have been in decline for awhile there.

Though true, if it came out on the consoles people would be saying the same about the PC.
The bottom line is that if the cost of porting (including man-hours potentially used elsewhere) is less than the expected sales then it's worthwhile. This is often, but not always, easier to hit on consoles. It it adds an extra $100k to the coffers and keeps the studio afloat that much longer then it's worthwhile.
16.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Nov 30, 2010, 14:45
16.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Nov 30, 2010, 14:45
Nov 30, 2010, 14:45
 
there is not one single element of Amnesia that would not be prefectly the same on any of the consoles including the Wii.

How exactly would you open doors and pick up items then? You need both sticks for movement and camera control which removes an analog control needed for manipulating the environment at various speeds which is important in the game. You did play the game and you're not just making a sloppy attempt to troll...right?

Of course the answer is going to be that the game would need to be reworked which means streamlined for console use which means dumbed down for many PC gamers. So you can see now why people get upset. Frankly I doubt Amnesia would do well on the console platform anyway, survival horror games have been in decline for awhile there.

This comment was edited on Nov 30, 2010, 14:51.
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15.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Nov 30, 2010, 14:44
15.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Nov 30, 2010, 14:44
Nov 30, 2010, 14:44
 

I can get so... what is it, angry? When devs look at meager sales and decide that the one and only solution to this problem is: consoles.

Buh?


This game is getting stellar reviews and, when you look through this board, almost unanimous praise. In fact, when I said "I didn't enjoy this game, it's not the type of game for me" some people got angry. The game is that flawless to them.

But the game hasn't sold well because it's a niche game appealing to a small market.



So, really, the options are either port it to consoles and hope to recoup the cost and then some or dumb the next game down to appeal to a wider audience.







And you're flipping out over the port option?
Or do you somehow think consoles != stupid, and therefore porting to consoles means it'll guaranteed be a dumb game? Wouldn't you prefer to take that chance rather than have them dumb it down just for the PC?
14.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Nov 30, 2010, 14:41
14.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Nov 30, 2010, 14:41
Nov 30, 2010, 14:41
 
yeah.. becuase its more important to make games for "pc passion" than to have food on the table and clothes for your children.

hypocrites....

Making games for consoles is not "selling out" in any sense. Some Pc games are good and some are bad, some console games are good and some bad. there is not one single element of Amnesia that would not be prefectly the same on any of the consoles including the Wii.

The Whales name is Bob.
13.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Nov 30, 2010, 14:36
13.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Nov 30, 2010, 14:36
Nov 30, 2010, 14:36
 
ASeven wrote on Nov 30, 2010, 11:38:
A niche game certainly but for me this is easily the game of the year. This is an unique experience though obviously you have to be a fan of the genre to fully enjoy it.

As for expanding to xbox, Zeno Clash devs even said their indie game sold a lot more on PC than on consoles. I fear it will be as StingingVelvet says, Frictional's fear of piracy will make them spend thousands on dev kits and then the game may not even sell half of what it sold on PC, bankrupting them.

Indie PC games genres do not tend to adapt well to consoles and vice-versa. Frictional is, I believe, doing a grave mistake since their games are very niche to start with and I think that niche is far bigger on the PC than on consoles. Hopefully they will think twice when they realize all the costs involved to make an indie game for the xbox, at least I hope they wait until they grow a bit more financially before taking the plunge. It's too early for them right now, they aren't that financially sound to risk a console title and its inherent costs.

Good riddance then. I'm getting sick of these companies running for the console as soon as they make a hit PC game. GSC Gameworld and CD Projekt are doing it (Or want to do it) and now Frictional is doing it. Let them burn, I say.

They don't understand that the low born, inbred, slope-headed troglodytes playing around with their plastic kiddie consoles aren't going to appreciate their games. They want gore, shit-tons of automatic weapons and leaderboards. Amnesia won't do a damn thing on the Xbox.
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12.
 
Re: Amnesia Postmortem
Nov 30, 2010, 14:11
12.
Re: Amnesia Postmortem Nov 30, 2010, 14:11
Nov 30, 2010, 14:11
 
I can get so... what is it, angry? When devs look at meager sales and decide that the one and only solution to this problem is: consoles.

You'd think that most become devs because of a passion. It's sad, sad, SAD that they so quickly manage to sell their soul for easy cash.

I don't care that I'm soinding melodramatic.
Where are the adults?
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