its always hilarious when extremely narrow minded people suddenly feel that they speak for "everyone".. or that they represent "anybody"

so sorry, big guy - the world is not actually revolving around you, thats just your mind playing tricks

Learping..

Maybe something like a cross between leaping and LERPing (LinEarinteRPolation), although for character animation maybe SLERPing is better (SphericalLinEarinteRPolation, using quaternions and what not)

The first thing I thought when I heard of project Natal was 'whoohoo, cheap MoCap!'

I was slightly disappointed when I saw the tech running (although still impressed, it's a tough problem they're trying to solve) but I think that in conjunction with other motion sensing tech and/or multiple kinect units, it might be possible to get quite accurate detection.
A couple of my friends at work used to work for a Mocap firm and they're a bit more cautious but I'm interested in seeing what people come up with. I'd love to have a bash myself, if I had time.

'O Captain my Captain!

Cutter wrote on Nov 11, 2010, 07:54:
Ok, so there is potential for indie developers with this, but how utterly tiny is that segment? The only other thing I can see this as an upside for would be the handicapped. Apart from that I can see zero use for this thing. It would be way more work than a keyboard and mouse and suck for games. Hell, apart from gayass games like Dance Central and maybe those stupid Wii type sports games I don't see any use for the console with the Kinect. Hell, I don't even bother playing FPS' on the Xbox because the console controllers suck for those games, how is the Kinect going to improves this experience, unless you like learping around like a fairy.

How utterly tiny is that segment? How about you? You're the only one in this thread so far who is openly against it. That makes you one person amongst many. Ergo, you are an utterly tiny segment, a mere drop in the ocean.

It doesn't matter how strong your views are - you are just one person. We get it - you don't see the point. Other users are posting about the possibilities for it and, frankly, that's more interesting to read.

It's not every day I get to take space captain's side on something

If MS wasn't just blowing smoke about rededicating themselves to PC gamers every few months, they'd release this on PC with official drivers and stop threatening to sue for using their hardware. This could drive a gaming REVOLUTION if they bothered to support it on PC. Games could support it, it could revolutionize the gaming industry in terms of mo-cap and as we've seen with all the innovative uses for the wiimote you'd probably see lots of ways people use this in hobbies, or robotics, or things I can't even imagine. I mean you see how many people use the xbox controller on the PC because they are used to it, people could do that with the kinect. Cutter brings up a good point too, this could revolutionize the handicapped's quality of life, and let them control all sorts of things, and use the computer much easier than before.

Heck, MS could still even make money out of it (if they are selling the hardware at a loss say). They could ask a small fee of any game that officially supports it, and ask a fee for anyone that does a commercial work with its mocap. When I say small, I mean small, otherwise it won't catch on. If it catches on MS can make money up by volume. (see apple's fail with firewire vs USB). If they are selling it for a $50 loss then they could make the PC version $50 more and people would still probably buy it.

Edit:
http://www.vg247.com/2010/10/25/kinect-will-sell-for-a-profit-says-mattrick/
According to this, MS says they will make a profit on all kinects sold. Then they have even less reason to refuse this, they should WANT to sell more of them. However, they could still charge an extra $50 on the PC to make up for whatever game sales they were expecting if it were used on a console


As it is, with unofficial drivers, no big title PC game will be able to officially use it.

Also as it is, if these unofficial drivers support everything, you'll probably see companies using them for mocap ANYWAY and MS won't get a penny. They can either stand in the way of progress, or monetize it.

Cutter wrote on Nov 11, 2010, 07:54:
unless you like learping around like a fairy.

You mean like this video blue linked?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xQEUxzjaK8

Oh, what is leaRping anyway?

This comment was edited on Nov 11, 2010, 09:41.

/FÂ\ SLI makes an exciting point. Mocap available for indie, even bedroom, devs? If that happens than kinect is forgiven for being a shit gaming device in my book.

Ok, so there is potential for indie developers with this, but how utterly tiny is that segment? The only other thing I can see this as an upside for would be the handicapped. Apart from that I can see zero use for this thing. It would be way more work than a keyboard and mouse and suck for games. Hell, apart from gayass games like Dance Central and maybe those stupid Wii type sports games I don't see any use for the console with the Kinect. Hell, I don't even bother playing FPS' on the Xbox because the console controllers suck for those games, how is the Kinect going to improves this experience, unless you like learping around like a fairy.

The funny thing about this is that I distinctly remember in some interview that Microsoft wanted to use the then named Project Natal on the PC for use with recognizing non-verbal gestures for some future version of windows. The irony of this is that they will be beaten to the punch for doing this on Linux but with their hardware.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10286309-56.html

http://tinyurl.com/lxokzm

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/59550

Not to mention the applications for robotics use is enough warrant the effort. If you didn't know already but people that build homebrew robotics have already been cannibalizing existing tech like Nintendo DS or Wiimotes.

Sure you can dream all you want, but there is no way in Hell that Microsoft is going to support this for the PC.

The reason that *I CARE* is that Kinect represents a $150.00 solution to a problem for homegrown game modders/developers. Anyone who has used a 3d app to create character animation by hand can tell you it's time consuming, difficult (especially for complex moves) and not the least of which, unrealistic (without a LOT OF TWEAKING). Mo-cap solutions are very expensive and tho there are college experiments using "cheap" video cameras and what not, it's still way more expensive than 150 bucks. I've asked about this over on the UDK boards (since Epic has a good relationship with Microsoft) about some kind of support for using the Kinect camera in Unreal Engine 3 (like say in ActorX plugin for 3dsmax/Maya) for creating your own character animation. Hey, I can dream cant I !

Cool, I might actually buy one now. I have no interest in devices I can't potentially write something for.
Funds permitting, I'd buy two or three. With several depth cameras and a bit of coding shenanigans, you might be able to create a more accurate voxel representation of the player. A bunch of kinect cameras could probably auto calibrate as well, as they can see each other.

Mix that in with a Wiimote/move type device as well and you've probably got all you need for very accurate full body motion capture.

T

Dirwulf wrote on Nov 10, 2010, 22:12:

space captain wrote on Nov 10, 2010, 21:55:
holy fucking shit... isnt adafruit that same chick that built the x0xb0x? (googling)

yep, wow shes come a long way .. good on her

Your statement implies she was the hacker?

Anyway, it will be very interesting to see how MS responds to this.

They said (back when it was Natal) that it was supposed to come out for the PC. I wonder if they are still planning that, or what. If not it seems like they would benefit from PC users having a desire to buy Kinect. (I am sure not buying an XBox just to try it out.)

I watched a video from Adafruit and the guy who did the interviewing made me want to drop kick my monitor. What an annoying guy.

Long live open source and thank gawd for legit hackers!

Cutter wrote on Nov 10, 2010, 23:20:
And anyone should care about this why? I don't want one for my xbox, so why would I want one for my PC?

I've used my Wii remote probably more for my PC then I have for my Wii.

Maybe if someone makes some killer PC apps I'll buy Kinect for my PC.

Cutter wrote on Nov 10, 2010, 23:20:
And anyone should care about this why? I don't want one for my xbox, so why would I want one for my PC?

someone like you wont care about it, as it requires a modicum of intelligence to be interested in open source technology

and since ladyada got her start in making synths, that might give you a further hint..

if you were actually capable of reasoning

i don't want one, but the fact MS doesn't want it on PC makes my control stick glow green at tip. i should prol get it checked, but meh, it's really just nice to see the intertubes bringing balance to some of the megalomaniacal BS being pulled these days.

And anyone should care about this why? I don't want one for my xbox, so why would I want one for my PC?

no shes the owner of "adafruit industries".. they put out a bounty for open source drivers.. some guy named "Hector" claimed the prize

space captain wrote on Nov 10, 2010, 21:55:
holy fucking shit... isnt adafruit that same chick that built the x0xb0x? (googling)

yep, wow shes come a long way .. good on her

Your statement implies she was the hacker?

Anyway, it will be very interesting to see how MS responds to this.