Slashman wrote on Oct 24, 2010, 12:54:

Ant wrote on Oct 24, 2010, 09:48:
Well, Crysis still crashes for me but not other games.

Upgrading can be a pain like video drivers like ATI Catalyst since each frakkin' upgrade seems to break something and requires me to reconfigure its settings.

But in the end you can always switch to an nVidia card right?

The whole advantage of PC gaming is the fact that I always have a choice. I can choose my hardware. I can choose my OS. I can choose the mods I want. Always choice...

Consoles aim to eliminate choice. Its great for one set of users(most of the teens and casualish gamers that devs want to entice these days). But I like being able to install a game and tweak my visuals to a level that's comfortable for me. If I want to be rid of bloom, I can turn it off. No anti-aliasing? I can turn it on or force it on in my video card control panel.

Do I want to use a controller or mouse/keyboard with this game? My choice!

My beef with consoles isn't consoles themselves. They are fine for a certain set of people. My beef is a developer/publisher telling me that if I want to game, I have to do it like its done on a console because that's as good as it can get.

It most certainly is not as good as it can get on a console. Console limitations should not affect my gaming experience as a PC gamer.

Slashman: Not really. NVIDIA pulled its fullscreen video overlay from its newer drivers about three years ago. I use it for watching fullscreen videos (e.g., TV, movies, etc.) on my old 20" CRT TV (1996). ATI still has this with its theater mode. Hence, why I went to ATI Radeon 4870.

Some people really don't care about choices. I can understand that. Being lazy, not having to fiddle with settings, etc. Just buy, insert game, and play! No worries about upgrading, drivers, requirements, etc.

Oh yeah controllers. I never liked the gamepads (can't hold them due to my physical disabilities) and newer joysticks (miss those one/two buttons types like Atari 2600, Kraft on PCs and Apple 2s), etc. I love keyboards and mice (love aiming precisely and quickly)!

Ant wrote on Oct 24, 2010, 09:48:
Well, Crysis still crashes for me but not other games.

Upgrading can be a pain like video drivers like ATI Catalyst since each frakkin' upgrade seems to break something and requires me to reconfigure its settings.

But in the end you can always switch to an nVidia card right?

The whole advantage of PC gaming is the fact that I always have a choice. I can choose my hardware. I can choose my OS. I can choose the mods I want. Always choice...

Consoles aim to eliminate choice. Its great for one set of users(most of the teens and casualish gamers that devs want to entice these days). But I like being able to install a game and tweak my visuals to a level that's comfortable for me. If I want to be rid of bloom, I can turn it off. No anti-aliasing? I can turn it on or force it on in my video card control panel.

Do I want to use a controller or mouse/keyboard with this game? My choice!

My beef with consoles isn't consoles themselves. They are fine for a certain set of people. My beef is a developer/publisher telling me that if I want to game, I have to do it like its done on a console because that's as good as it can get.

It most certainly is not as good as it can get on a console. Console limitations should not affect my gaming experience as a PC gamer.

I also find the "crashing" argument to be a thing of the past. When I borrowed my friend's Xbox 360 for 2 weeks, Alan Wake crashed once. The last time my PC crashed during a game (not counting goddamn unstable Fallout) was literally about half a year ago. 'nough said on that matter.

PCs require upgrades only because you let it require upgrades. That, too, is also a thing of the past. Hardware these days, and I of course speak out of rockhard experience, doesn't age as fast as back in the days where you were damn proud of your new TNT gpu. I can say with utmost certainty that my PC will play games just as smooth as a PS3 will do 3 years from now, but with better visuals (the PC that is).

And to go back to my original point: gameplay experience. Completely unbiased and full of excitement did I borrow that Xbox 360 to play Alan Wake, Fable 2, Red Dead Redemption and some other games. Completely unbiased I came to the conclusion that the gameplay experience on a console is much worse than on PC in every aspect.

If people play games for immesion but do so on a console, then it's obvious they've never gave the PC a try.

The only reason I can imagine why people own a console is because they like to play with friends on the same couch or play nothing else but Gears/God of War. The strongest and most valid arguments of money and crashes are a thing of the past and are no longer appropriate.

Well, Crysis still crashes for me but not other games.

Upgrading can be a pain like video drivers like ATI Catalyst since each frakkin' upgrade seems to break something and requires me to reconfigure its settings.

Theo wrote on Oct 24, 2010, 07:39:
i love both platforms; and thesedays the are getting similar in terms of experiance imo,

A sad, sad matter of fact.

TBH i get sick of the "console vrs pc arguement", both have some excellent games; and both have merit - i am a pc gamer at heart, but recently i have been playing on the console more (wow aside), largly because i like competative games the the PC has FAR to many cheaters (this totally ruins the experiance for me, more so than using a controller over a mouse).

i love both platforms; and thesedays the are getting simler in terms of experiance imo, certain game types just play better on the PC though.

Ant wrote on Oct 23, 2010, 22:36:

Eldaron Imotholin wrote on Oct 23, 2010, 22:26:

Ant wrote on Oct 23, 2010, 13:47:

Wildone wrote on Oct 23, 2010, 12:36:
Who uses LAN on consoles! Its all about the consoles..

Who uses consoles? PCs FTW. I haven't had owned a console since Atari 2600.

I've tried consoles but hated them.

Difference between me and console lovers is that I play games for immersion which is impossible on consoles and their tunnelvision controller gameplay. Another difference is that I know what I'm talking about when comparing PCs with consoles wherein literally 99% of the console lovers scream how much better consoles are while they havent ever gave the PC a try except for FarmVille!

Well, PCs are harder to manage because of many ways to crash, requirements for games (video cards, RAM, etc.), etc. Consoles doesn't crash that much, doesn't require upgrades to stay with the newest games, easier to set up, etc.

I like PCs because I can control what I have, hack/mod, etc.

There's that, of course, Ant. But all that doesn't really involve the gaming experience, which is what I'm talking about.

I also find the "crashing" argument to be a thing of the past. When I borrowed my friend's Xbox 360 for 2 weeks, Alan Wake crashed once. The last time my PC crashed during a game (not counting goddamn unstable Fallout) was literally about half a year ago. 'nough said on that matter.

PCs require upgrades only because you let it require upgrades. That, too, is also a thing of the past. Hardware these days, and I of course speak out of rockhard experience, doesn't age as fast as back in the days where you were damn proud of your new TNT gpu. I can say with utmost certainty that my PC will play games just as smooth as a PS3 will do 3 years from now, but with better visuals (the PC that is).

And to go back to my original point: gameplay experience. Completely unbiased and full of excitement did I borrow that Xbox 360 to play Alan Wake, Fable 2, Red Dead Redemption and some other games. Completely unbiased I came to the conclusion that the gameplay experience on a console is much worse than on PC in every aspect.

If people play games for immesion but do so on a console, then it's obvious they've never gave the PC a try.

The only reason I can imagine why people own a console is because they like to play with friends on the same couch or play nothing else but Gears/God of War. The strongest and most valid arguments of money and crashes are a thing of the past and are no longer appropriate.

If there's not "roleplaying" in diablo in what then?
That doesn't make any sense.
also
friends GRIEF each other?
You missed my point all together or didn't actually read it all.

Eldaron Imotholin wrote on Oct 23, 2010, 22:26:

Ant wrote on Oct 23, 2010, 13:47:

Wildone wrote on Oct 23, 2010, 12:36:
Who uses LAN on consoles! Its all about the consoles..

Who uses consoles? PCs FTW. I haven't had owned a console since Atari 2600.

I've tried consoles but hated them.

Difference between me and console lovers is that I play games for immersion which is impossible on consoles and their tunnelvision controller gameplay. Another difference is that I know what I'm talking about when comparing PCs with consoles wherein literally 99% of the console lovers scream how much better consoles are while they havent ever gave the PC a try except for FarmVille!

Well, PCs are harder to manage because of many ways to crash, requirements for games (video cards, RAM, etc.), etc. Consoles doesn't crash that much, doesn't require upgrades to stay with the newest games, easier to set up, etc.

I like PCs because I can control what I have, hack/mod, etc.

Ant wrote on Oct 23, 2010, 13:47:

Wildone wrote on Oct 23, 2010, 12:36:
Who uses LAN on consoles! Its all about the consoles..

Who uses consoles? PCs FTW. I haven't had owned a console since Atari 2600.

I've tried consoles but hated them.

Difference between me and console lovers is that I play games for immersion which is impossible on consoles and their tunnelvision controller gameplay. Another difference is that I know what I'm talking about when comparing PCs with consoles wherein literally 99% of the console lovers scream how much better consoles are while they havent ever gave the PC a try except for FarmVille!

Icewind wrote on Oct 23, 2010, 04:43:
Health Orbs.
No attribute point distribution

Automatic skill learning at lvl up/No skill trees.

To be fair, these are outdated complaints.

From Blizzcon, going on right now basically(10/22/2010)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_Z7mTfLV5g


No more spending just enough attribute points in STR and DEX, then the rest in HP, they've gone with a Passive and Active Skill system.

It seems like a usable system so far, from the video. Passive skills, or Traits as they are now called, approximately 90, and you will get around 30 points to spend on those. At the same time, you can have 7 active skills, with various levels of points per skill, drawn from a completely separate set of spendable points.

I was a bit apprehensive the last time I had heard the no attribute points thing also, but it's sounding better.

I am probably sounding like a Blizzard shill at this point, so I'll say "Boo!" to giant shoulder pads!

EDIT: Grammar'd.

This comment was edited on Oct 23, 2010, 22:00.

Wildone wrote on Oct 23, 2010, 12:36:
Who uses LAN on consoles! Its all about the consoles..

Who uses consoles? PCs FTW. I haven't had owned a console since Atari 2600.

No skill trees? That really shocks me!

I freaking love skill trees and it is the king of replayability. I managed to play WoW for years on end because of the classes and their skill trees!

Guess I'll be looking forward to Torchlight 2 more, then.

When is the last time a barbarian took intellegence, sorceror took strength

How about all the time? There are plenty of ridiculous builds out there which accommodate nonstandard play styles.

Who uses LAN on consoles! Its all about the consoles..

But come on, it's Blizzard. They arn't known to screw stuff up, and with a title this big, they arn't going to make changes the fanbase doesn't want.

Seems like a good time to mention the lack of LAN support for Starcraft II at this point.

Icewind wrote on Oct 23, 2010, 04:43:
Health Orbs.

No attribute point distribution

Giant spiky WoW-style shoulder pads

Automatic skill learning at lvl up/No skill trees.

Points1 and 3 I don't mind. Potion spamming made D2 a huge joke, as long as you had the gold to keep buying the uberpotions. Plus it brings another element of strategy to the clickfest, where you actually have to look out for ways to heal instead of spamming 1. I don't mind the spikey shoulders either. If the armor sets look cool, who cares? Sure, they probably didnt forge spikes back to their armor back in the day but they didn't fight the devil's minions either.

While I like attribute point distribution, I could see why they would make it automated. I mean, let's be honest. When is the last time a barbarian took intellegence, sorceror took strength, etc. But I do agree that they should allow custom point distribution. Make it so that when you level up, it automatically puts points into suggested catagories, but allow the user to move it freely before they accept the points.

No skill trees is just damn stupid though. Most of the fun in D2 was planning out what skills you were going to grab. But come on, it's Blizzard. They arn't known to screw stuff up, and with a title this big, they arn't going to make changes the fanbase doesn't want.

Roleplaying? In Diablo?

You tool.

PvP within Diablo has never been used for anything but griefing.

Unless I'm mistaken it looks like PVP or "friendly fire" of any kind isn't even possible at all in the actual game itself?

They've only enabled it in arenas?

I really hate it that games are becoming like this.
Could at least add an option to have open world pvp on or off.
It looks badass still and it's not like pvp is all that matters but I always like playing on games with friends where friendly fire is on or pvp enabled just to add another facet or risk and fun. Works great for roleplaying purposes...etc..
Also if you're in a game with some people I like the feeling that anyone can attack at any point and keeps things interesting.

Slashman wrote on Oct 23, 2010, 08:01:

Icewind wrote on Oct 23, 2010, 04:43:
Health Orbs.

No attribute point distribution

Giant spiky WoW-style shoulder pads

Automatic skill learning at lvl up/No skill trees.

Forgetting the health orbs, are the other 3 actually true??

After seeing that comment I got curious too and did some quick googling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_3
Says shoulder pads are added.

googling for skill trees brought this up:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/PC-RPG-Game-Diablo-Blizzard,9154.html
dated almost a year ago, where they said they wanted to focus on skill points rather than skill trees. I don't see anything more recent than that, so I dunno if thats changed.

Attributes appear to be auto distributed now, although blizzard says they might be working on a custom attribute system, but that work has been on hold for a year. They say they are doing it to be more friendly to n00bs (why not have tips pop up when you level then lol)
http://www.diablowiki.net/Attributes
All the source articles were 2009 or older that I can find.

So short answer is yes, sounds like he's right as of a year or 2 ago. Today? Who knows.
Feel free to google up more in depth info, and let us know, I'm curious now.

This comment was edited on Oct 23, 2010, 08:43.

Icewind wrote on Oct 23, 2010, 04:43:
Health Orbs.

No attribute point distribution

Giant spiky WoW-style shoulder pads

Automatic skill learning at lvl up/No skill trees.

Forgetting the health orbs, are the other 3 actually true??