And oddly, zero gold-spammers, from what I've seen on Landroval.

It's amazing how, if you just drop your greed and give players what they want, they come and play your game!

The entire gaming industry only took like twenty years to figure this out.

Creston

I have started playing again since they went out of their way for us founding lifetime members...and yes the lack of gold spammers has been nice.

The problem is the hidden grindiness, for those...damnit it's been a long time since I've played. What're they called, Faiths? The things you slot that you need to grind monster kills for. That was terrible. That and the grinding of ability uses that you were limited to a certain # per day.

It's very pretty though. The outdoor environments are the best I've seen in a fantasy MMO, and the very understated character armors are a nice change from everything else.

So tempted to redownload this but afraid I'll get addicted again. Also, the free to play version doesn't have monster play?

AnarKane wrote on Oct 8, 2010, 11:01:
And oddly, zero gold-spammers, from what I've seen on Landroval.

Yes, I set the Nine Riders on them. They currently fill the bellies of the Nazguls' Fell Beasts.

Seriously, I'm really enjoying LotRO. Great gameplay, cool story and mature playerbase. Very fun, especially if you're the Dark Lord.

Now, where did I put that ring?

Creston wrote on Oct 8, 2010, 11:31:
The entire gaming industry only took like twenty years to figure this out.

Which puts them about 40 years ahead of the music industry!

Rattlehead wrote on Oct 8, 2010, 11:42:
Also, the free to play version doesn't have monster play?

Correct, it's grayed out in the free version. I've not looked at the store yet, but maybe it's available there. Not sure though.

Pretty sure you can buy anything with your points and points are MUCH easier to make than their previous attempt D&D Online.

AnarKane wrote on Oct 8, 2010, 11:01:
And oddly, zero gold-spammers, from what I've seen on Landroval.

Unlike in, say, WoW, Turbine aggressively suspends/bans players that BUY gold.

I had a friend who got banned for 30 days a few minutes after she received purchased gold. They're watching gold traffic seriously, looks like. (This happened before F2P, too.)

If you can't cut the supply, annihilate the demand.

Which puts them about 40 years ahead of the music industry!

The games industry, especially failing MMOs, could change their model.

The music industry cannot, hence all the issues. Any benefit that came to labels was virtually exclusively based on sales. Combine this with any benefit the labels provided being virtually nixed by technology ("virtually" is key words in both parts) and you have record labels fighting tooth and nail to survive.

They won't. There's no room for innovation in that model. Not for them. Any innovation just cuts them right out. But, since they're the only centralized players, and therefore hold obscene power, they can continue this death struggle for a while.


But you can't blame them for fighting. It's that or fold. Smart execs are just trying to make it last until they retire. Hopefully there aren't many morons still going into the industry...

Creston wrote on Oct 8, 2010, 11:31:
It's amazing how, if you just drop your greed and give players what they want, they come and play your game!

The entire gaming industry only took like twenty years to figure this out.

Creston

Have you played LOTRO recently?

Monthly sub for LOTRO, excluding multi-month discounts, prior to F2P, was only $10 a month.

In order for an individual with a "free" account to actually get to have fun in LOTRO right now, if they're the type who detests absurd grinds (kill 120 orcs for 10 Turbine points here, complete a series of quests for 5 Turbine points there) is to buy Turbine Points.

So an individual on a "Free" account is likely to spend more than $10 a month to be "free".

Turbine didn't drop greed. They got greedier. It's just that their marketting did a fine job disgusing free-to-try as free-to-play.

Creston wrote on Oct 8, 2010, 11:31:
It's amazing how, if you just drop your greed and give players what they want, they come and play your game!

The entire gaming industry only took like twenty years to figure this out.

Creston

You realize that the gaming industry isn't charity, right?

If gaming companies make money, they have money to spend on making better games. Or, in the case of MMO's and subscription fees, they have money to keep the game in business since the operational and support costs are fairly high.

I assume plenty of mmo's would increase overall revenue if they did this. They're not worth the money just to see if you like it. If STO would offer free to play on the cruiser class of feds and klingon so many more people could try the game free and see how the game looks. (or just let the klingon race play free, they should have done this from the start) Conan could let players play 1 character class free, the rest would be pay to play. Something that gets players in the game and able to see what hte game has to offer. If people don't see anything worth paying for then you lose pennies, if 1 person in 10 wants to spend a few bucks you've covered the cost of those other 9 using your bandwidth/resources.

They should all do this going forward. The whole scheme of getting you to pay $50 to see if you wanted to spend $15 a month is coming to a close. There has been so much competition in this area that I think gamers are simply not willing to spend big money on all these games. Monthly sub fees need to be lower, up front costs need to be lower, portions of the game need to be free to play (from start to finish).

TheWhistlingPig wrote on Oct 8, 2010, 12:30:
Monthly sub for LOTRO, excluding multi-month discounts, prior to F2P, was only $10 a month

It's still $10/month if you buy 3 months or more. I just subscribed and got that rate. And it's worth it, I'm really having fun.

It's amusing how there always has to be some epic, underlying ulterior narrative going on according to gaming forums.

-First, LOTRO was going free-to-play because, according to forums, it was "failing"
-This was in contrast to DDO which was doing quite well before going FTP, now it's just doing even better
-It also ignores that LOTRO was one of the most successful MMOs out there (outside of WoW)
-Now that LOTRO is FTP and doing even better, it's because they learned how to "not be greedy"
-But they're still "greedy", now even more "greedy"
-In other threads there is still talk about how MMOs going FTP is a sign that they're "doomed"


Can't you guys just step back for a single moment and look at this from reality's perspective, for once? That maybe, just maybe, developers are being sincere when they talk about their motives for going free-to-play?

It always made sense to me, reading Turbine's reasons for DDO and LOTRO going free-to-play - average revenue per player goes down, but total number of players goes way up. In the end, they make more money, even if they were already successful beforehand.

Yet the old pay model stays behind - pay monthly like you always have, get just as much access and content as you already had, you're not paying a dime more.


Seems like win-win to me.

In fairness, everything every company every does is greed-driven.

Valve gives you free crap for years with some games. Is this because they aren't greedy? God no! It's because they think that this free crap will make you more likely to play this game longer, making other people more likely to buy it, and because they think the promise of free crap will make you pay for non-free crap, be it upgrades or other games, in the future.

Every single corporation in the world is driven by greed.


MMOs switch to F2P because of greed. They're getting smart about the greed, but still greed. Right now essentially anyone that's going to play this style of MMORPG is already playing it. You have to convince them to leave their game. If your game costs money they're not going to even try it. They're already paying, and not only are they already established in what they're paying for experience-wise (friends, loot, levels, etc.) but they are practicality-wise (auto-drafting payments every month.) Switching from that is a hassle, especially for something that might suck. And even if they were trying it so few are doing so that, relative to where they're already playing, it's a barren wasteland.

Make it F2P and suddenly there are no choices. They don't have to make a decision. They just download and put a few hours here instead of there. More people check it out. It's easier to convince clanmates to test it.

It's a heroin model - just let them get a taste and then they're hooked. If that taste costs money it's less likely to happen.
And it's still 100% greed. But, not to get all Gordon Gekko, but greed isn't necessarily bad. Damn near every accomplishment man has ever had has been out of hopes of riches, fame and power.

Beamer wrote on Oct 8, 2010, 13:18:
In fairness, everything every company every does is greed-driven.

If the people working at Turbine were looking for really big money, they wouldn't be working at Turbine. They'd be trading at Goldman Sachs or managing a hedge fund.

Maybe they're just trying to make a decent living doing what they enjoy? Not sure how greedy that really is.

sauron, you seem to be confusing the people who actually create the game with the businessmen in charge of the business.

I am one of the 20% that returned and am having an absolute blast. The F2P is implemented really well, where you get a huge amount of content for free and only really need to pay for convenience items. As a guy who plays off and on its way more content than I could ever want, it will be long time, if ever, before I need to buy an expansion.